Braves Working on Furcal

[Tim]

Why on earth are people using Aramis as a trading chip? And for Chipper Jones and Marcus Giles??

 

Marcus Giles isn't any betetr than Todd Walker. That's a bad idea right there.

 

I wouldn't even think about that trade.

 

But Giles is better than Walker.

 

He's faster. Better defensively. Walker has better power and patience.

 

I'd say it's a push.

Walker has better power and patience?

 

IsoP:

 

Walker: .169 (2005) .151 (career)

Giles: .170 (2005) .173 (career)

 

IsoD:

 

Walker: 0.050 (2005) 0.058 (career)

Giles: 0.074 (2005) 0.074 (career)

 

 

I don't think so.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Good point.

[Tim]

Because of the health concerns, I'm willing to look at Aramis being used in a move. However, I'm not going to take back the bigger health concern of Chipper in return.

 

Including ARam in a deal for ARod would be a different matter altogether.

 

I'm sure Anaheim could put together a package that would interest me for ARam (though it would be based mostly on their prospects).

 

There's a few others, but it would take a lot to get me to make a move.

 

I think the durability concerns are a little overblown. It would take 1 offseason of a decent conditioning/stretching program to prevent these pulls. It's not like he's Griffey, with demolished legs.

We'll see what the conditioning does for him. I hope it takes care of everything. But guys that have such problems in their mid-20's concern me.

 

Obviously, I hope my concerns are overblown.

[Tim]

Good point.

Thanks, but you were faster. ;)

[USSoccer]

Why on earth are people using Aramis as a trading chip? And for Chipper Jones and Marcus Giles??

 

Marcus Giles isn't any betetr than Todd Walker. That's a bad idea right there.

 

I wouldn't even think about that trade.

 

But Giles is better than Walker.

 

He's faster. Better defensively. Walker has better power and patience.

 

I'd say it's a push.

Walker has better power and patience?

 

IsoP:

 

Walker: .169 (2005) .151 (career)

Giles: .170 (2005) .173 (career)

 

IsoD:

 

Walker: 0.050 (2005) 0.058 (career)

Giles: 0.074 (2005) 0.074 (career)

 

 

I don't think so.

 

Okay, I'll admit-I'm at work, and didn't loko up the numbers, so I got owned :D .

 

But still. I wouldn't trade Ramirez for the sake of Giles.

[USSoccer]

Because of the health concerns, I'm willing to look at Aramis being used in a move. However, I'm not going to take back the bigger health concern of Chipper in return.

 

Including ARam in a deal for ARod would be a different matter altogether.

 

I'm sure Anaheim could put together a package that would interest me for ARam (though it would be based mostly on their prospects).

 

There's a few others, but it would take a lot to get me to make a move.

 

I think the durability concerns are a little overblown. It would take 1 offseason of a decent conditioning/stretching program to prevent these pulls. It's not like he's Griffey, with demolished legs.

We'll see what the conditioning does for him. I hope it takes care of everything. But guys that have such problems in their mid-20's concern me.

 

Obviously, I hope my concerns are overblown.

 

I played soccer in college with guys who had leg pulls that nagged them, until they started stretching more and lifting less. Their last 2 seasons they didn't get hurt once. I think that's all it will take.

 

If whoever the Cubs send down there make sure Aramis is running, stretching and working on flexibility he'll be fine.

[Bluescale]

I'm sure Anaheim could put together a package that would interest me for ARam (though it would be based mostly on their prospects).

 

They have a rightfielder I'd probably be willing to consider...

[CubfaninCA]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat. Giles is an upgrade @ 2b and Dusty may be more likely to use him correctly (bat his 2nd instead of 6th like Walker). Also, w/ Giles aboard, Brian Giles may actually show some interest in the Cubs and it may give the Cubs more leverage w/ Furcal. Get Jones, both Giles and Furcal and the Cubs upgrade their infield defense and can afford to go w/ Murton & Pie in LF and CF. Pie doesn't have to be a obp monster batting 7th.

 

Lineup ~ Furcal, M. Giles, B. Giles, Lee, Jones, Murton, Pie, Barrett.

 

Odds of happening 1 in 1000000000000000000. :)

[fromthestretch]

I'm sure Anaheim could put together a package that would interest me for ARam (though it would be based mostly on their prospects).

 

Something involving Howie Kendrick would be a start. They could move Aybar to 2B and let Brandon Wood play SS. Or if they're interested in dealing Wood...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat. Giles is an upgrade @ 2b and Dusty may be more likely to use him correctly (bat his 2nd instead of 6th like Walker). Also, w/ Giles aboard, Brian Giles may actually show some interest in the Cubs and it may give the Cubs more leverage w/ Furcal. Get Jones, both Giles and Furcal and the Cubs upgrade their infield defense and can afford to go w/ Murton & Pie in LF and CF. Pie doesn't have to be a obp monster batting 7th.

 

Lineup ~ Furcal, M. Giles, B. Giles, Lee, Jones, Murton, Pie, Barrett.

 

Odds of happening 1 in 1000000000000000000. :)

 

Don't you realize if we traded for Jones and Giles, the Braves would have more than enough money to keep Furcal?

 

Also, if we trade for Jones (17 million) and Giles (5 million est), then we likely couldn't afford to go hard after Furcal.

 

Trading for Giles is a smart move. Trading for Jones to play left isn't a bad move. Trading Ramirez for Jones, even if it includes Giles, is idiocy.

[goonys evil twin]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat.

 

Why no concern with Chipper's fragile body? If durability and the perception that laziness leads to the injuries causes you to want to deal Ramirez, how can then turn around and acquire a guy coming off 2 straight injury marred seasons (who happens to cost much more than the guy you'd be replacing)?

[CubfaninCA]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat. Giles is an upgrade @ 2b and Dusty may be more likely to use him correctly (bat his 2nd instead of 6th like Walker). Also, w/ Giles aboard, Brian Giles may actually show some interest in the Cubs and it may give the Cubs more leverage w/ Furcal. Get Jones, both Giles and Furcal and the Cubs upgrade their infield defense and can afford to go w/ Murton & Pie in LF and CF. Pie doesn't have to be a obp monster batting 7th.

 

Lineup ~ Furcal, M. Giles, B. Giles, Lee, Jones, Murton, Pie, Barrett.

 

Odds of happening 1 in 1000000000000000000. :)

 

Don't you realize if we traded for Jones and Giles, the Braves would have more than enough money to keep Furcal?

 

Also, if we trade for Jones (17 million) and Giles (5 million est), then we likely couldn't afford to go hard after Furcal.

 

Trading for Giles is a smart move. Trading for Jones to play left isn't a bad move. Trading Ramirez for Jones, even if it includes Giles, is idiocy.

 

Yep, realize that, but they may still opt for Betemit and put money into pitching. My main rationale would be improving leverage to get Brian Giles.

[fromthestretch]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat.

 

Why no concern with Chipper's fragile body? If durability and the perception that laziness leads to the injuries causes you to want to deal Ramirez, how can then turn around and acquire a guy coming off 2 straight injury marred seasons (who happens to cost much more than the guy you'd be replacing)?

 

Not only that, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe he had multiple injuries this season. If I remember correctly, he had a foot issue AND some problems with his throwing arm (shoulder, I think). A move to first base may be in the cards for Chipper within the next few years if his arm continues to bother him.

[CubfaninCA]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat.

 

Why no concern with Chipper's fragile body? If durability and the perception that laziness leads to the injuries causes you to want to deal Ramirez, how can then turn around and acquire a guy coming off 2 straight injury marred seasons (who happens to cost much more than the guy you'd be replacing)?

 

That's a concern too. Just want to get 3 (both Giles & Chipper) for 2 (ARam & Walker or CPatt). People who think the Cubs have any shot @ B. Giles w/out some major change are dreaming. Am kinda doubtful the Cubs could get M. Giles w/out giving up a major asset. Thus my proposed deal.

[goonys evil twin]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat.

 

Why no concern with Chipper's fragile body? If durability and the perception that laziness leads to the injuries causes you to want to deal Ramirez, how can then turn around and acquire a guy coming off 2 straight injury marred seasons (who happens to cost much more than the guy you'd be replacing)?

 

Not only that, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe he had multiple injuries this season. If I remember correctly, he had a foot issue AND some problems with his throwing arm (shoulder, I think). A move to first base may be in the cards for Chipper within the next few years if his arm continues to bother him.

 

I think that shoulder has been a concern for a couple years.

[goonys evil twin]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat.

 

Why no concern with Chipper's fragile body? If durability and the perception that laziness leads to the injuries causes you to want to deal Ramirez, how can then turn around and acquire a guy coming off 2 straight injury marred seasons (who happens to cost much more than the guy you'd be replacing)?

 

That's a concern too. Just want to get 3 (both Giles & Chipper) for 2 (ARam & Walker or CPatt). People who think the Cubs have any shot @ B. Giles w/out some major change are dreaming. Am kinda doubtful the Cubs could get M. Giles w/out giving up a major asset. Thus my proposed deal.

 

The only way that Giles is a pipedream is if Hendry doesn't go hard after him. Anybody can be had.

[CubfaninCA]

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??"

 

As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat.

 

Why no concern with Chipper's fragile body? If durability and the perception that laziness leads to the injuries causes you to want to deal Ramirez, how can then turn around and acquire a guy coming off 2 straight injury marred seasons (who happens to cost much more than the guy you'd be replacing)?

 

That's a concern too. Just want to get 3 (both Giles & Chipper) for 2 (ARam & Walker or CPatt). People who think the Cubs have any shot @ B. Giles w/out some major change are dreaming. Am kinda doubtful the Cubs could get M. Giles w/out giving up a major asset. Thus my proposed deal.

 

The only way that Giles is a pipedream is if Hendry doesn't go hard after him. Anybody can be had.

 

Hendry needs to move either the Pacific Ocean or Giles' family to Chicago, or greatly overpay him. The only possibility of those 3 is moving his family (Marcus) to Chicago. I haven't heard anything about Mark Cuban buying the Cubs from the Trib, and SD, LA, Anaheim, Boston, Houston and St. Louis are probably all ahead of the Cubs in the bidding war. Maybe there would be a better chance if the Cubs had won 90 games this year.

[goonys evil twin]

Hendry needs to move either the Pacific Ocean or Giles' family to Chicago, or greatly overpay him. The only possibility of those 3 is moving his family (Marcus) to Chicago. I haven't heard anything about Mark Cuban buying the Cubs from the Trib, and SD, LA, Anaheim, Boston, Houston and St. Louis are probably all ahead of the Cubs in the bidding war. Maybe there would be a better chance if the Cubs had won 90 games this year.

 

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs?

[CuseCubFan69]

Hendry needs to move either the Pacific Ocean or Giles' family to Chicago, or greatly overpay him. The only possibility of those 3 is moving his family (Marcus) to Chicago. I haven't heard anything about Mark Cuban buying the Cubs from the Trib, and SD, LA, Anaheim, Boston, Houston and St. Louis are probably all ahead of the Cubs in the bidding war. Maybe there would be a better chance if the Cubs had won 90 games this year.

 

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs?

 

They win?

[goonys evil twin]

Hendry needs to move either the Pacific Ocean or Giles' family to Chicago, or greatly overpay him. The only possibility of those 3 is moving his family (Marcus) to Chicago. I haven't heard anything about Mark Cuban buying the Cubs from the Trib, and SD, LA, Anaheim, Boston, Houston and St. Louis are probably all ahead of the Cubs in the bidding war. Maybe there would be a better chance if the Cubs had won 90 games this year.

 

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs?

 

They win?

 

But what does that have to do with family? Nobody has bid on anybody yet. Only SD can talk to Giles. Nobody is ahead of anybody else. The Cubs can get him if they want him. It's insane to talk about the impossibility of signing him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Hendry needs to move either the Pacific Ocean or Giles' family to Chicago, or greatly overpay him. The only possibility of those 3 is moving his family (Marcus) to Chicago. I haven't heard anything about Mark Cuban buying the Cubs from the Trib, and SD, LA, Anaheim, Boston, Houston and St. Louis are probably all ahead of the Cubs in the bidding war. Maybe there would be a better chance if the Cubs had won 90 games this year.

 

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs?

 

They win?

 

They don't win THAT much more, it's not like the Cubs are the Devil Rays.

 

Plus, Boston has no place to put Giles unless he or Nixon are moving to CF. I have doubts about Houston being able to afford an 8 figure Free Agent, they have 55 mil in 5 players, and that doesn't include Clemens plus Arby raises for Ensberg and Lidge. STL doesn't have the cash to offer that we do either, although they have more flexibility than Houston.

[CuseCubFan69]

Hendry needs to move either the Pacific Ocean or Giles' family to Chicago, or greatly overpay him. The only possibility of those 3 is moving his family (Marcus) to Chicago. I haven't heard anything about Mark Cuban buying the Cubs from the Trib, and SD, LA, Anaheim, Boston, Houston and St. Louis are probably all ahead of the Cubs in the bidding war. Maybe there would be a better chance if the Cubs had won 90 games this year.

 

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs?

 

They win?

 

But what does that have to do with family? Nobody has bid on anybody yet. Only SD can talk to Giles. Nobody is ahead of anybody else. The Cubs can get him if they want him. It's insane to talk about the impossibility of signing him.

 

I'm just saying that if Giles rules out the home thing that winning teams would be the next thing on the list unless cash is the most important thing to him.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm just saying that if Giles rules out the home thing that winning teams would be the next thing on the list unless cash is the most important thing to him.

 

The contract, and the GM's ability to sell that contract are always the most important thing.

[USSoccer]

Trading Ramirez for Jones/Giles in order to help Brian Giles sign here is stupid. Giles is going to go to a team that can win, who pays him money. We're a better team with Ramirez than we are with Chipper and Marcus. If he's going to get hung up on where is brother is playing, then either his priorities are out of whack or we didn't make a good enough offer.

[CuseCubFan69]

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs?

 

They win?

 

They don't win THAT much more, it's not like the Cubs are the Devil Rays.

 

Yeah they do....the Cubs do every 5 years or so.