Dempster's Sticking Around For 3 More Years

[mg420]

all i know is that his walk rate is ridiculous. it does not reflect a simple lack of use.

 

What about a lack of sample size? 5 innings?

 

with how many walks? i'm sorry, my opinion may be tainted by memories of watching him throw the ball in the general direction of the plate, every time he got in the game, without having any success in the strike zone.

 

Yep. Every time I've seen him pitch, he can't get near the plate. He can't be allowed to pitch in close games because he walks so often. No way I'm blaming Dusty for this one. As far as I'm concerned, Dusty's handling it correctly.

 

lets look at the facts. jvb was called up from iowa on 8/31/05 where he had a 1.98 era, 25 saves and had 65 k's & 22 bb in 54.67 innings. he worked 2 inninings on 8/31, walked 1 & k'd 2. on 9/3 he worked 1 inning & gave up 1 hit no k's or bb's. he then sat on the bench for 9 days and walked 5 in 2 innings the next 2 appearences. back to the bench for 7 days & walked 2 in .33 innings. to me this indicates that his lack of control was directly linked to not being used for up to 9 days due to bakers gross mishandling of the bullpen.

[mg420]

A terrible signing. This contract will dominate this board in 2007.

 

why?

 

Because he will be lousy or hurt and the Cubs will be stuck with the contract (see Remlinger, Mike).

 

remlinger was lousy for the cubs due to injuries & baker not being able to understand that even though remmy throws lefty, he is much more effective against right handed hitters. everyone else in baseball (and most fans too) except baker seemed to be aware of that fact.

[wastra]

A terrible signing. This contract will dominate this board in 2007.

 

why?

 

Because he will be lousy or hurt and the Cubs will be stuck with the contract (see Remlinger, Mike).

 

remlinger was lousy for the cubs due to injuries & baker not being able to understand that even though remmy throws lefty, he is much more effective against right handed hitters. everyone else in baseball (and most fans too) except baker seemed to be aware of that fact.

 

 

Well, given the cost of any OTHER closer, it might be a decent deal. I can't seen him regressing into a HORRID reliever, and $5MM per is a bargain for a closer.

 

So I think this will wind up being the steal of hte off-season, or he'll get hurt and we'll b!tch about it for a decade.

[mg420]

A terrible signing. This contract will dominate this board in 2007.

 

why?

 

Because he will be lousy or hurt and the Cubs will be stuck with the contract (see Remlinger, Mike).

 

remlinger was lousy for the cubs due to injuries & baker not being able to understand that even though remmy throws lefty, he is much more effective against right handed hitters. everyone else in baseball (and most fans too) except baker seemed to be aware of that fact.

 

 

 

Well, given the cost of any OTHER closer, it might be a decent deal. I can't seen him regressing into a HORRID reliever, and $5MM per is a bargain for a closer.

 

So I think this will wind up being the steal of hte off-season, or he'll get hurt and we'll b!tch about it for a decade.

 

i agree. with his stuff, unless he gets hurt i am not worried about dempster not doing the job.

[YearofDaCubs]

Dempster moving into the pen and becoming the closer for him was the best move for his career IMO. He really only had 1 good year as a starter.

[mg420]

Dempster moving into the pen and becoming the closer for him was the best move for his career IMO. He really only had 1 good year as a starter.

 

yup. seems to be the trend recently. gange, nathan and the cards izzy have all turned into great closers after failing as starters. eck is the 1st one i can remember doing this except he actually had success as a starter early in his career.

[Lefty]

What you guys fail to see is that just about all closers are failed starters. Mariano Rivera was a starter in the minors but didn't have the repertoire to start in the Majors.

 

Dempster had a good run. But he put a lot of runners on. With normal luck he goes 29/35 instead of 33/35. Is that worth $5 million?

 

The Cubs don't learn the right lessons. They get two great years from Borowski for about $1 million. They then sign him to a decent contract which cost them games. They got Dempster for $500,000 last year to mop up, and $2 million this year to be a miserable fifth starter, and then closer by default. Now you're gonna pay him $5 million? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

The Cubs have no confidence in their ability to solve problems creatively. So instead of trying to find another Borowski, and using the Dempster money for what they cannot easily replace (Furcal, Giles or Giles), they sign Dempster to guarantee themselves mediocrity.

 

I find myself rooting for the Sox, because I would love for them to win and stick it to the Cubs. The Cubs are a disgusting organization. But I love 'em.

[JGalt73]

Dempster had a good run. But he put a lot of runners on. With normal luck he goes 29/35 instead of 33/35. Is that worth $5 million?

 

The Cubs don't learn the right lessons. They get two great years from Borowski for about $1 million. They then sign him to a decent contract which cost them games. They got Dempster for $500,000 last year to mop up, and $2 million this year to be a miserable fifth starter, and then closer by default. Now you're gonna pay him $5 million? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

The Cubs have no confidence in their ability to solve problems creatively. So instead of trying to find another Borowski, and using the Dempster money for what they cannot easily replace (Furcal, Giles or Giles), they sign Dempster to guarantee themselves mediocrity.

 

I, and Christina Kahrl from BP agree...

 

... Like Joe Borowski before him, the Cubs seem to have learned nothing about where closers come from, instead supposing that the ability to "close" appears as magically as flies in Francesco Redi's open jars. To put it another way, in Adjusted Runs Prevented, Dempster ranked 40th among big-league relievers with 50 or more relief innings pitched; perhaps significantly, only one of the 39 guys ahead of him (and only three of the top 50) was worse with other people's baserunners. A better number for him is his WXRL, where Dempster ranked fourth in the major leagues.

 

I guess my problem really boils down to shelling out more than $5 million per for a pitcher who's been worked hard and broken down in the past, and who will probably only continue to be a one-inning saves hog as closers go....Basically, that's a lot of lucre for a guy whose track record is every bit as much about breaking down and his wildness as it is not about any demonstrable consistency over the last five years.

[Lefty]

Dempster had a good run. But he put a lot of runners on. With normal luck he goes 29/35 instead of 33/35. Is that worth $5 million?

 

The Cubs don't learn the right lessons. They get two great years from Borowski for about $1 million. They then sign him to a decent contract which cost them games. They got Dempster for $500,000 last year to mop up, and $2 million this year to be a miserable fifth starter, and then closer by default. Now you're gonna pay him $5 million? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

The Cubs have no confidence in their ability to solve problems creatively. So instead of trying to find another Borowski, and using the Dempster money for what they cannot easily replace (Furcal, Giles or Giles), they sign Dempster to guarantee themselves mediocrity.

 

I, and Christina Kahrl from BP agree...

 

... Like Joe Borowski before him, the Cubs seem to have learned nothing about where closers come from, instead supposing that the ability to "close" appears as magically as flies in Francesco Redi's open jars. To put it another way, in Adjusted Runs Prevented, Dempster ranked 40th among big-league relievers with 50 or more relief innings pitched; perhaps significantly, only one of the 39 guys ahead of him (and only three of the top 50) was worse with other people's baserunners. A better number for him is his WXRL, where Dempster ranked fourth in the major leagues.

 

I guess my problem really boils down to shelling out more than $5 million per for a pitcher who's been worked hard and broken down in the past, and who will probably only continue to be a one-inning saves hog as closers go....Basically, that's a lot of lucre for a guy whose track record is every bit as much about breaking down and his wildness as it is not about any demonstrable consistency over the last five years.

 

You know, my business mentor is a huge Ayn Rand fan. He's a lot older than you are based on your moniker.

 

I had an opportunity to spend some quality time with a noted BP author. He had a close source in the Cubs front office. To paraphrase what he said, while people in the Cubs front office are not stupid, and are certainly not stupid about baseball, at this point they have little interest in looking at baseball problems in any kind of new way.

 

Now me talking, humans tend to hunker down when they sense a threat. The Cubs front office, unable to adapt, signed Dempster to this contract because it makes them feel safer. So they are literally Neandrethals (sp?).

[Backtobanks]

What you guys fail to see is that just about all closers are failed starters. Mariano Rivera was a starter in the minors but didn't have the repertoire to start in the Majors.

 

Dempster had a good run. But he put a lot of runners on. With normal luck he goes 29/35 instead of 33/35. Is that worth $5 million?

 

The Cubs don't learn the right lessons. They get two great years from Borowski for about $1 million. They then sign him to a decent contract which cost them games. They got Dempster for $500,000 last year to mop up, and $2 million this year to be a miserable fifth starter, and then closer by default. Now you're gonna pay him $5 million? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

The Cubs have no confidence in their ability to solve problems creatively. So instead of trying to find another Borowski, and using the Dempster money for what they cannot easily replace (Furcal, Giles or Giles), they sign Dempster to guarantee themselves mediocrity.

 

I find myself rooting for the Sox, because I would love for them to win and stick it to the Cubs. The Cubs are a disgusting organization. But I love 'em.

 

Dempster (like Borowski) is not a lights-out closer and certainly has a tendency to worry me, but what would have happened if the Cubs low-balled Dempster and he signed with another team. Now you have to get in a bidding war over someone like Wagner that will end up costing $8-9 million per year. Is Dempster worth $5 million...... NO, but 99% of the players aren't worth what they're paid. At least it's money being paid to someone who has an important role on the team and not a bench-warmer.

[Backtobanks]

What you guys fail to see is that just about all closers are failed starters. Mariano Rivera was a starter in the minors but didn't have the repertoire to start in the Majors.

 

Dempster had a good run. But he put a lot of runners on. With normal luck he goes 29/35 instead of 33/35. Is that worth $5 million?

 

The Cubs don't learn the right lessons. They get two great years from Borowski for about $1 million. They then sign him to a decent contract which cost them games. They got Dempster for $500,000 last year to mop up, and $2 million this year to be a miserable fifth starter, and then closer by default. Now you're gonna pay him $5 million? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

The Cubs have no confidence in their ability to solve problems creatively. So instead of trying to find another Borowski, and using the Dempster money for what they cannot easily replace (Furcal, Giles or Giles), they sign Dempster to guarantee themselves mediocrity.

 

I find myself rooting for the Sox, because I would love for them to win and stick it to the Cubs. The Cubs are a disgusting organization. But I love 'em.

 

Dempster (like Borowski) is not a lights-out closer and certainly has a tendency to worry me, but what would have happened if the Cubs low-balled Dempster and he signed with another team. Now you have to get in a bidding war over someone like Wagner that will end up costing $8-9 million per year. Is Dempster worth $5 million...... NO, but 99% of the players aren't worth what they're paid. At least it's money being paid to someone who has an important role on the team and not a bench-warmer.

[mg420]

if dempster saves 40 games next year i wonder how many people (BA included) will be saying what a wonderful bargin he was for 5 mil.

[goonys evil twin]

if dempster saves 40 games next year i wonder how many people (BA included) will be saying what a wonderful bargin he was for 5 mil.

 

Save totals don't tell the whole story. Remember, Alfonseca once racked up 45 in a season.

[stitchface]

I hope somebody saves 40 plus for the cubs next year. I would rather pay wagner $8 or $9 than Dempster $5 I think.

[XZero771679666304]

if dempster saves 40 games next year i wonder how many people (BA included) will be saying what a wonderful bargin he was for 5 mil.

 

Save totals don't tell the whole story. Remember, Alfonseca once racked up 45 in a season.

 

As a closer, Dempster posted a 1.85 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 8.17 k/9 and .218 BAA to go with his league leading .943 save percentage.

 

There was nothing about Dempster's performance to indicate he will be anything but good. Injuries are really the primary concern.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I hope somebody saves 40 plus for the cubs next year. I would rather pay wagner $8 or $9 than Dempster $5 I think.

 

No to Wagner, but I'd pay that or even a bit more for BJ Ryan over Dempster.

 

if dempster saves 40 games next year i wonder how many people (BA included) will be saying what a wonderful bargin he was for 5 mil.

 

Save totals don't tell the whole story. Remember, Alfonseca once racked up 45 in a season.

 

As a closer, Dempster posted a 1.85 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 8.17 k/9 and .218 BAA to go with his league leading .943 save percentage.

 

There was nothing about Dempster's performance to indicate he will be anything but good. Injuries are really the primary concern.

 

Or a return to control problems that have plagued most of his career.

[Crash]

if dempster saves 40 games next year i wonder how many people (BA included) will be saying what a wonderful bargin he was for 5 mil.

 

Save totals don't tell the whole story. Remember, Alfonseca once racked up 45 in a season.

 

As a closer, Dempster posted a 1.85 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 8.17 k/9 and .218 BAA to go with his league leading .943 save percentage.

 

There was nothing about Dempster's performance to indicate he will be anything but good. Injuries are really the primary concern.

 

His walks are a little worrisome. However that is balanced out to a great deal by the fact that he doesn't give up many extra base hits. As reliever he allowed a SLG percentage of .265 and a Ground/fly out ratio of 2.88.

 

He isn't Billy Wagner or Mariano Rivera, but this season Dempster was the cut just under that elite level.

[nilodnayr]

I hope somebody saves 40 plus for the cubs next year. I would rather pay wagner $8 or $9 than Dempster $5 I think.

 

No to Wagner, but I'd pay that or even a bit more for BJ Ryan over Dempster.

 

if dempster saves 40 games next year i wonder how many people (BA included) will be saying what a wonderful bargin he was for 5 mil.

 

Save totals don't tell the whole story. Remember, Alfonseca once racked up 45 in a season.

 

As a closer, Dempster posted a 1.85 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 8.17 k/9 and .218 BAA to go with his league leading .943 save percentage.

 

There was nothing about Dempster's performance to indicate he will be anything but good. Injuries are really the primary concern.

 

Or a return to control problems that have plagued most of his career.

 

His BB/IP rate as a reliever this year are not all that different than the rest of his career.

[XZero771679666304]

I hope somebody saves 40 plus for the cubs next year. I would rather pay wagner $8 or $9 than Dempster $5 I think.

 

No to Wagner, but I'd pay that or even a bit more for BJ Ryan over Dempster.

 

if dempster saves 40 games next year i wonder how many people (BA included) will be saying what a wonderful bargin he was for 5 mil.

 

Save totals don't tell the whole story. Remember, Alfonseca once racked up 45 in a season.

 

As a closer, Dempster posted a 1.85 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 8.17 k/9 and .218 BAA to go with his league leading .943 save percentage.

 

There was nothing about Dempster's performance to indicate he will be anything but good. Injuries are really the primary concern.

 

Or a return to control problems that have plagued most of his career.

 

They never left. But one walk every two innings isn't so bad. You notice one walk every two outings a lot less than 3 or 4 walks in a start. It's perception, as Dempster walked guys at nearly the same rate as a closer as he did before.

[badger1679666666]

His K/9 ratio is nowhere near the top closers in the game and his BB/9 is a little high. That worries me. I do like that he didn't give up a lot of XBH, but the jury is still out for me. Maybe he gets even better? That's not what I care about though for the next 3 years.

 

Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles. Giles.

 

 

If I say it enough times will it come true?

[Lefty]

 

Dempster (like Borowski) is not a lights-out closer and certainly has a tendency to worry me, but what would have happened if the Cubs low-balled Dempster and he signed with another team. Now you have to get in a bidding war over someone like Wagner that will end up costing $8-9 million per year. Is Dempster worth $5 million...... NO, but 99% of the players aren't worth what they're paid. At least it's money being paid to someone who has an important role on the team and not a bench-warmer.

 

This isn't a discussion of whether ballplayers are worth more than firefighters. It is a baseball discussion. Dempster isn't worth $5 million because he's not that good, he is an injury risk, the Cubs could probably replace him for less and then use the extra money for something they need.

[mg420]

 

Dempster (like Borowski) is not a lights-out closer and certainly has a tendency to worry me, but what would have happened if the Cubs low-balled Dempster and he signed with another team. Now you have to get in a bidding war over someone like Wagner that will end up costing $8-9 million per year. Is Dempster worth $5 million...... NO, but 99% of the players aren't worth what they're paid. At least it's money being paid to someone who has an important role on the team and not a bench-warmer.

 

This isn't a discussion of whether ballplayers are worth more than firefighters. It is a baseball discussion. Dempster isn't worth $5 million because he's not that good, he is an injury risk, the Cubs could probably replace him for less and then use the extra money for something they need.

 

who could they replace him with for less than 5 mil? with all the $ the cubs will save next year in payroll by losing nomar, burnitz & sosa's contract a few mil is not going to make much of a difference. every pitcher is an injury risk (look at what happened to foulke, gagne & benitez) and to say "he's not that good" is just a personal opinion that the facts simply dont back up. what if the dodgers or twins said the same thing about gange and nathan who had similar history's of being failed starters who were often injured?

[CuseCubFan69]

I like the fact that Hendry can concentrate on other Cub weaknesses now instead of the closer thing too over the off season. I understand he can multi-task but having Dempster signed gives him a better idea on how he can allocate his money.

[BigbadB]

 

Dempster (like Borowski) is not a lights-out closer and certainly has a tendency to worry me, but what would have happened if the Cubs low-balled Dempster and he signed with another team. Now you have to get in a bidding war over someone like Wagner that will end up costing $8-9 million per year. Is Dempster worth $5 million...... NO, but 99% of the players aren't worth what they're paid. At least it's money being paid to someone who has an important role on the team and not a bench-warmer.

 

This isn't a discussion of whether ballplayers are worth more than firefighters. It is a baseball discussion. Dempster isn't worth $5 million because he's not that good, he is an injury risk, the Cubs could probably replace him for less and then use the extra money for something they need.

 

who could they replace him with for less than 5 mil? with all the $ the cubs will save next year in payroll by losing nomar, burnitz & sosa's contract a few mil is not going to make much of a difference. every pitcher is an injury risk (look at what happened to foulke, gagne & benitez) and to say "he's not that good" is just a personal opinion that the facts simply dont back up. what if the dodgers or twins said the same thing about gange and nathan who had similar history's of being failed starters who were often injured?

 

Why would you say Dempster's not good? I'll take a closer with his success rate any day of the week. The beauty of it is he isn't costing top dollar closer money.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

This thread is really dumb. For all the disasters on the Cubs in 2005, for all the underachieving and disappointment this team subjected us to, there were two true bright spots: Lee and Dempster. And now some want to pee all over Dempster's parade?

 

The only issue I think merits some wavering is the money he got, but it's just the money--and the Cubs have plenty of it.

 

Worst case scenario Dempster becomes a $5MM setup man for a dominant closer somewhere down the road, is that really so awful? We paid Sling Blade $4MM/year for absolutely atrocious performance and no one seemed to get excited about it. I'll go out on a limb here and say Ryan Dempster is worth at least $1MM more than Remlinger.

 

Let's focus on where the real problems lie: poor OBP, a terrible manager, no outfield and an overrated starting pitching corps. Dempster is fine.