How good is Barry Bonds, exactly?

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Can't stand the guy, but you can't fault the man for his skills!

 

That being said, I would like him much more if he hit 700+ in a Cubs uniform!

[imb]

what the hell is muscle speed? did you just make up that term on the spot?

[wekse]

my muscles are quick

[Careless]

what the hell is muscle speed? did you just make up that term on the spot?

...

not all muscles contract at the same speed.

Whether or not he coined the term, it's a valid concept.

[CoolHandLuke]

what the hell is muscle speed? did you just make up that term on the spot?

...

not all muscles contract at the same speed.

Whether or not he coined the term, it's a valid concept.

 

fast and slow twitch muscle fibers

[UBlink]

In addition, if Bonds doesn't take steroids for the last 5 years, there is no way his body continues to hold up beyond 40 years of age.

 

So what illegal supplements do you think Nolan Ryan was on? No way his body holds up for an average of 200+ innings/year for 6 years age 40-45, right?

[Careless]

what the hell is muscle speed? did you just make up that term on the spot?

...

not all muscles contract at the same speed.

Whether or not he coined the term, it's a valid concept.

 

fast and slow twitch muscle fibers

On that subject, I wonder if there are any people in MLB who have the "wimp gene"

[thrivein05]

I don't know how anybody can claim to be a baseball fan outside of San Fran and also be a Barry Bonds fan. What the hell is wrong with you people? This guy is stealing records by his cheating, and yes, he is still on steroids, and since there is no test for HGH that MLB can use yet, you can't tell me otherwise.

[Careless]

I don't know how anybody can claim to be a baseball fan outside of San Fran and also be a Barry Bonds fan. What the hell is wrong with you people? This guy is stealing records by his cheating, and yes, he is still on steroids, and since there is no test for HGH that MLB can use yet, you can't tell me otherwise.

You use an accusation not backed up by facts and then say people who disagree with you cannot do the same?

[thrivein05]

We all know he took steroids, and we have no reason to think he isn't still.

[bhogg]

In addition, if Bonds doesn't take steroids for the last 5 years, there is no way his body continues to hold up beyond 40 years of age.

 

So what illegal supplements do you think Nolan Ryan was on? No way his body holds up for an average of 200+ innings/year for 6 years age 40-45, right?

 

 

 

To be the barroid equivelant, Ryan would have had to go 25-3 / 1.43 / 380 Ks per year and 4 win Cy Youngs those last few years.

[synergy]

Before, I used to discount everything that Barry Bonds did because he might have used steroids. But I just saw the HR he hit off Patterson today and my god.....no other hitter could hit that pitch for a homer other than Barry. ESPN just did a segment on it, that was a perfectly-placed pitch and he still nailed it. He's got a great eye and plate discipline and when he swings at a pitch he usually hits it out. Steroids don't enhance hand-eye coordination. Steroids or not, he's gotta be one of the greatest hitters I've seen. That bat speed he gets is unbelievable. I think next year when that independent steroid commission gets started and Bonds is still hitting around 50-60 homers next year, I'm convinced he's the greatest hitter.

[illiniguy]

In addition, if Bonds doesn't take steroids for the last 5 years, there is no way his body continues to hold up beyond 40 years of age.

 

So what illegal supplements do you think Nolan Ryan was on? No way his body holds up for an average of 200+ innings/year for 6 years age 40-45, right?

 

 

 

To be the barroid equivelant, Ryan would have had to go 25-3 / 1.43 / 380 Ks per year and 4 win Cy Youngs those last few years.

kinda like clemens?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Greatest Hitters?

 

1. Splendid Splinter

2. Cobb

3. Babe

4. Barroid

5. Gehrig

 

Honorable mention--Speaker, Hornsby, Musial, Lajoie and Gwynn

[katway]

Before, I used to discount everything that Barry Bonds did because he might have used steroids. But I just saw the HR he hit off Patterson today and my god.....no other hitter could hit that pitch for a homer other than Barry. ESPN just did a segment on it, that was a perfectly-placed pitch and he still nailed it. He's got a great eye and plate discipline and when he swings at a pitch he usually hits it out. Steroids don't enhance hand-eye coordination. Steroids or not, he's gotta be one of the greatest hitters I've seen. That bat speed he gets is unbelievable. I think next year when that independent steroid commission gets started and Bonds is still hitting around 50-60 homers next year, I'm convinced he's the greatest hitter.

 

Bonds has the experience to handle a good pitch; so does Tony Gwynn @ 40+ years of age. The difference is that Bonds can turn on the pitch because the steroids helped his body heal and keep going so that at 42, he has younger man's body and bat speed. There is no doubt that steroids have contributed to his success.

[Mike Aller]

In addition, if Bonds doesn't take steroids for the last 5 years, there is no way his body continues to hold up beyond 40 years of age.

 

So what illegal supplements do you think Nolan Ryan was on? No way his body holds up for an average of 200+ innings/year for 6 years age 40-45, right?

Julio Franco must just drink steroids.

[Derwood]

I'm not going argue any more on this subject until/if he actually tests positive for something. Specualation makes my pockets hurt.

[fromthestretch]

In addition, if Bonds doesn't take steroids for the last 5 years, there is no way his body continues to hold up beyond 40 years of age.

 

So what illegal supplements do you think Nolan Ryan was on? No way his body holds up for an average of 200+ innings/year for 6 years age 40-45, right?

Julio Franco must just drink steroids.

 

Apparantly with every meal.

 

The fact that he's still playing at that age (and playing well) amazes me. His reported age is 47, yet there are still a few people who think he may be a little older. Even if he is "only" 47, what he's accomplished is impressive. He doesn't show any signs of slowing down either.

[katway]

In addition, if Bonds doesn't take steroids for the last 5 years, there is no way his body continues to hold up beyond 40 years of age.

 

So what illegal supplements do you think Nolan Ryan was on? No way his body holds up for an average of 200+ innings/year for 6 years age 40-45, right?

Julio Franco must just drink steroids.

 

Apparantly with every meal.

 

The fact that he's still playing at that age (and playing well) amazes me. His reported age is 47, yet there are still a few people who think he may be a little older. Even if he is "only" 47, what he's accomplished is impressive. He doesn't show any signs of slowing down either.

 

Certainly some people will be physically blessed (ignoring the fact the comparison is flawed since Franco is not a better player today than when he was 26), but we know Bonds "unknowingly" used steroids from his grand jury testimony.

[UK1679666180]

The question to me is...

 

How did Bonds have the quickest bat in MLB long before his HR totals shoot thru the roof as well as the re-definition of his bodt?

[UBlink]

In addition, if Bonds doesn't take steroids for the last 5 years, there is no way his body continues to hold up beyond 40 years of age.

 

So what illegal supplements do you think Nolan Ryan was on? No way his body holds up for an average of 200+ innings/year for 6 years age 40-45, right?

Julio Franco must just drink steroids.

 

Apparantly with every meal.

 

The fact that he's still playing at that age (and playing well) amazes me. His reported age is 47, yet there are still a few people who think he may be a little older. Even if he is "only" 47, what he's accomplished is impressive. He doesn't show any signs of slowing down either.

 

Certainly some people will be physically blessed (ignoring the fact the comparison is flawed since Franco is not a better player today than when he was 26), but we know Bonds "unknowingly" used steroids from his grand jury testimony.

 

And we know this because it was written in the newspaper. And newspapers never lie. Since I haven't followed this very closely, has anyone in a position of authority confirmed on the record the accuracy of the grand jury testimony?

[fromthestretch]

Julio Franco must just drink steroids.

 

Apparantly with every meal.

 

The fact that he's still playing at that age (and playing well) amazes me. His reported age is 47, yet there are still a few people who think he may be a little older. Even if he is "only" 47, what he's accomplished is impressive. He doesn't show any signs of slowing down either.

 

Certainly some people will be physically blessed (ignoring the fact the comparison is flawed since Franco is not a better player today than when he was 26), but we know Bonds "unknowingly" used steroids from his grand jury testimony.

 

Actually, his numbers (percentages) over the past five years tell me that he's slightly better with the bat than he was when he was 26...and 27 for that matter. Granted, I don't know how his body would hold up playing everyday now, but he really hasn't slowed down much at all offensively.

 

As for Bonds, I'm not going to argue that he didn't use steroids. However, since we know that others have used steroids (some who have had great careers and some who haven't) and we don't know how many pitchers Bonds faced that were on steroids or some other performane-enhancing substance, I have to look at his stats as they are.

[katway]

In addition, if Bonds doesn't take steroids for the last 5 years, there is no way his body continues to hold up beyond 40 years of age.

 

So what illegal supplements do you think Nolan Ryan was on? No way his body holds up for an average of 200+ innings/year for 6 years age 40-45, right?

Julio Franco must just drink steroids.

 

Apparantly with every meal.

 

The fact that he's still playing at that age (and playing well) amazes me. His reported age is 47, yet there are still a few people who think he may be a little older. Even if he is "only" 47, what he's accomplished is impressive. He doesn't show any signs of slowing down either.

 

Certainly some people will be physically blessed (ignoring the fact the comparison is flawed since Franco is not a better player today than when he was 26), but we know Bonds "unknowingly" used steroids from his grand jury testimony.

 

And we know this because it was written in the newspaper. And newspapers never lie. Since I haven't followed this very closely, has anyone in a position of authority confirmed on the record the accuracy of the grand jury testimony?

 

What would be a position of authority? Perhaps Bonds could deny that he ever took steroids provided by Balco... still haven't heard him say that. Instead, his lawers were angry that the testimony was leaked. Doesn't seem to me they could be angry that the testimony being leaked if it wasn't in fact leaked.

[TB_11]

The question to me is...

 

How did Bonds have the quickest bat in MLB long before his HR totals shoot thru the roof as well as the re-definition of his bodt?

 

He's always used a bat shorter and lighter than the normal ones used by sluggers, and still chokes up on it. Amazingly fast bat speed + unbelivable pitch recognition = best hitter of our era.

[Chocolate Milk]

And we know this because it was written in the newspaper. And newspapers never lie. Since I haven't followed this very closely, has anyone in a position of authority confirmed on the record the accuracy of the grand jury testimony?

 

I don't think it's logical to assume that all the papers lied for some reason. Also the reason that no one "in authority" has come out and confirmed it is because leaking grand jury testimony is illegal.

 

The real benefit, in my mind, to Barry's steroid use is that he was able to chase old age off for about 5 years. I believe that he's probably went off them this year, when the heat really went down. Look what happened. To put it simply, the guy is physically a mess. You can bring up Julio Franco if you'd like, but that guy's a physical specimen. Barry was on IV antibiotics after multiple offseason knee surgeries. When Barry probably should have started to wear down, get weaker, and have injury concerns, he instead got stayed healthy and got stronger.

 

So, I think is records are suspect because steroids helped him hit homeruns indirectly by allowing him to remain at peak performance longer than he would have been able to naturally.

 

Edit: I also think Barry is the best hitter of our Era.