Torrii Hunter anyone?

[TheDude]

Damon won't command a whole lot more than Hunter. Damon is superior offensively. Both have the right character, but for the cost differential, I'll take Damon.

 

I agree that Damon would be better, but I wouldn't pay either 10 million, and especially not for the years that Damon wants. Damon's numbers away from Fenway aren't that much different than Hunter's.

I am not sure the away numbers angle really holds. If Damon leaves Boston, he'll have home numbers somewhere, even if slightly reduced. I have never been a fan of taking a player's away numbers and trying to apply them to Wrigley in a trade/signing scenario. Generally speaking, most players have better home numbers, some significantly so.

 

I prefer to compare season totals and 3 year totals to compare the two.

[CubfaninCA]

There's more to baseball than obp. The Cubs need someone who can do something in cf, and they need to upgrade their defense. Hairston's a utility man and Patterson's ops is around .600 and he may never turn it around in Chicago. Yes Hunter's overpaid, but he'd be a nice stop gap in cf and a nice 6 hitter. A team doesn't need obp monsters @ every spot in the order. Unless you have the budget of the Yankees or Red Sox it's unrealistic.

 

If it's Walker & CPatt for Hunter, so be it. Put Cedeno @ 2b. Nomar in rf, Murton in lf, and sign Furcal. People should be happy that the kids get a chance.

 

Speaking of unrealisitic, it's 1 in 100 that Giles comes to Chicago. See Carlos Beltran for more. I hope Giles signs really early to ease the agony.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There's more to baseball than obp. The Cubs need someone who can do something in cf, and they need to upgrade their defense. Hairston's a utility man and Patterson's ops is around .600 and he may never turn it around in Chicago. Yes Hunter's overpaid, but he'd be a nice stop gap in cf and a nice 6 hitter. A team doesn't need obp monsters @ every spot in the order. Unless you have the budget of the Yankees or Red Sox it's unrealistic.

 

If it's Walker & CPatt for Hunter, so be it. Put Cedeno @ 2b. Nomar in rf, Murton in lf, and sign Furcal. People should be happy that the kids get a chance.

 

Speaking of unrealisitic, it's 1 in 100 that Giles comes to Chicago. See Carlos Beltran for more. I hope Giles signs really early to ease the agony.

 

Which would you rather have, Hunter in CF and Cedeno at 2B, or Patterson/Greenberg/Murton/Hairston/Trade target in CF, and Walker at 2B? I take Walker + whoever.

[CubfaninCA]

There's more to baseball than obp. The Cubs need someone who can do something in cf, and they need to upgrade their defense. Hairston's a utility man and Patterson's ops is around .600 and he may never turn it around in Chicago. Yes Hunter's overpaid, but he'd be a nice stop gap in cf and a nice 6 hitter. A team doesn't need obp monsters @ every spot in the order. Unless you have the budget of the Yankees or Red Sox it's unrealistic.

 

If it's Walker & CPatt for Hunter, so be it. Put Cedeno @ 2b. Nomar in rf, Murton in lf, and sign Furcal. People should be happy that the kids get a chance.

 

Speaking of unrealisitic, it's 1 in 100 that Giles comes to Chicago. See Carlos Beltran for more. I hope Giles signs really early to ease the agony.

 

Which would you rather have, Hunter in CF and Cedeno at 2B, or Patterson/Greenberg/Murton/Hairston/Trade target in CF, and Walker at 2B? I take Walker + whoever.

 

What other cf's will be on the block?? Please don't say Griffey. Won't happen.

 

I would take Finley & Donnelly for Maddux and Rusch tho. Finley could have a comeback year and it's a salary wash. Might not take a whole lot to get Finley and iirc Washburn & Byrd will be free agents, so Anaheim may need to add a pitcher and Maddux lives 25 miles from the ballpark.

[treebird]

I would take Finley & Donnelly for Maddux and Rusch tho. Finley could have a comeback year and it's a salary wash. Might not take a whole lot to get Finley and iirc Washburn & Byrd will be free agents, so Anaheim may need to add a pitcher and Maddux lives 25 miles from the ballpark.

 

It'd take a pretty decent comeback for Finley to post even a .700 ops next year. He's got all of .013 points of obp on corey. And he's FORTY.

 

if the cubs trade for finley ill commit suicide

[CoolHandLuke]

Does it frighten anyone that the Cubs might trade Todd Walker and Patterson for Hunter and a prospect from the Twins?

 

Liriano :D

[CubfaninCA]

I would take Finley & Donnelly for Maddux and Rusch tho. Finley could have a comeback year and it's a salary wash. Might not take a whole lot to get Finley and iirc Washburn & Byrd will be free agents, so Anaheim may need to add a pitcher and Maddux lives 25 miles from the ballpark.

 

It'd take a pretty decent comeback for Finley to post even a .700 ops next year. He's got all of .013 points of obp on corey. And he's FORTY.

 

if the cubs trade for finley ill commit suicide

 

You do realize Finley's been hurt all year, after crashing into the wall in the 2nd game of the season. Just bring back Hairston, as the utility man. So long Macias.

[Magnetic Curses]

There's more to baseball than obp. The Cubs need someone who can do something in cf, and they need to upgrade their defense. Hairston's a utility man and Patterson's ops is around .600 and he may never turn it around in Chicago. Yes Hunter's overpaid, but he'd be a nice stop gap in cf and a nice 6 hitter. A team doesn't need obp monsters @ every spot in the order. Unless you have the budget of the Yankees or Red Sox it's unrealistic.

 

If it's Walker & CPatt for Hunter, so be it. Put Cedeno @ 2b. Nomar in rf, Murton in lf, and sign Furcal. People should be happy that the kids get a chance.

 

Speaking of unrealisitic, it's 1 in 100 that Giles comes to Chicago. See Carlos Beltran for more. I hope Giles signs really early to ease the agony.

 

i don't think you should add high priced players with low-obp's to correct the team obp problem. it doesn't make sense. we could have burnitz, who already puts up numbers close to hunter's. stick burnitz in center and spend the money elsewhere, which would probably make up for the difference in defense.

 

we don't need obp monsters at every position, but hey, where are the other "monsters", i see lee with an obp over .400 and two guys over .350, one of which might not even be back next year if we trade him for hunter. we don't have much obp, which is what we need to address this offseason, hunter gives us nothing that we don't already have.

[LuckyPup]

Does it frighten anyone that the Cubs might trade Todd Walker and Patterson for Hunter and a prospect from the Twins?

 

Liriano :D

I actually could see a Walker/Patterson for Hunter/Romero trade-and, while I would be thrilled with it, I could live with it-lets face it, Patterson will NEVER be a great player in Wrigley-his confidence is just too shot and eveytime he strikes out the fans are gonna let him have it-What if J.Jones was a part as well? I know he isn't the perfect player but still better than anything we have(except maybe Murton-but thats a big maybe). That one trade would shore up our entire OF and not be overly expensive-plus the defense would be great-Sign Furcal and trade for Soriano-that is an ok lineup-not the greatest but OK-

 

SS-Furcal

LF-Murton

1B-Lee

3b-Ramirez

2B-Soriano

CF-Hunter

RF-Jones

C-Barrett

 

Actually after looking at that lineup, the OBP retardation that appears would drive me to drink.scratch that idea-although i could unfortunately see Hendry assembling that crap-

[CubfaninCA]

Unless they roll the dice w/ Pie or Patterson and risk a .630 ops, there's not a lot of options for cf. I guess they could always trade for Mike Cameron. He makes $8 million next year and then's a free agent. Preston Wilson's probably not going to sign a 1 year deal. Griffey won't be availabe. Damon ain't coming to Chicago. Altogether, there just aren't a lot of good cf's out there.

[CubfaninCA]

There's more to baseball than obp. The Cubs need someone who can do something in cf, and they need to upgrade their defense. Hairston's a utility man and Patterson's ops is around .600 and he may never turn it around in Chicago. Yes Hunter's overpaid, but he'd be a nice stop gap in cf and a nice 6 hitter. A team doesn't need obp monsters @ every spot in the order. Unless you have the budget of the Yankees or Red Sox it's unrealistic.

 

If it's Walker & CPatt for Hunter, so be it. Put Cedeno @ 2b. Nomar in rf, Murton in lf, and sign Furcal. People should be happy that the kids get a chance.

 

Speaking of unrealisitic, it's 1 in 100 that Giles comes to Chicago. See Carlos Beltran for more. I hope Giles signs really early to ease the agony.

 

i don't think you should add high priced players with low-obp's to correct the team obp problem. it doesn't make sense. we could have burnitz, who already puts up numbers close to hunter's. stick burnitz in center and spend the money elsewhere, which would probably make up for the difference in defense.

 

we don't need obp monsters at every position, but hey, where are the other "monsters", i see lee with an obp over .400 and two guys over .350, one of which might not even be back next year if we trade him for hunter. we don't have much obp, which is what we need to address this offseason, hunter gives us nothing that we don't already have.

 

LOL @ Burnitz in cf. How many games will it take before Zambrano strangles him for his inadequacy. Cf's an important defensive position.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Does it frighten anyone that the Cubs might trade Todd Walker and Patterson for Hunter and a prospect from the Twins?

 

Liriano :D

 

Heh, that's what I was thinking.

 

Meh, just say no to Torii, especially at his salary and how much it will cost to acquire him.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm not completely opposed to getting Hunter, but I wouldn't want to give up too much to get him.

 

If I could get Hunter for Patterson, or Hunter for Wellemeyer, or Hunter for Mitre...or something along those lines, I might take him even at that salary.

 

If the Twins are looking to unload all the salary and get decent players in return, I'd have to pass. The salary is a burden that can be overcome. The Cubs have money to spend. I wouldn't want to trade too much in the way of players.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not completely opposed to getting Hunter, but I wouldn't want to give up too much to get him.

 

If I could get Hunter for Patterson, or Hunter for Wellemeyer, or Hunter for Mitre...or something along those lines, I might take him even at that salary.

 

If the Twins are looking to unload all the salary and get decent players in return, I'd have to pass. The salary is a burden that can be overcome. The Cubs have money to spend. I wouldn't want to trade too much in the way of players.

 

If they did Hunter for Welly, and paid some money, I wouldn't be too upset. But that is assuming the Cubs don't foolishly settle on Hunter as some sort of savior based on his tools and reputation. He'd have to be treated as a band-aid, and other major moves would have to be made. And he'd have to be the 7th hitter at most.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Here's the problem: There's no way that you're getting Hunter for that little. It just isnt' going to happen based on his perceived value. Ryan's definitely smart enough to sucker someone(I'm looking at you Jim Bowden) into trading a bunch of talent for Hunter.

[goonys evil twin]

Here's the problem: There's no way that you're getting Hunter for that little. It just isnt' going to happen based on his perceived value. Ryan's definitely smart enough to sucker someone(I'm looking at you Jim Bowden) into trading a bunch of talent for Hunter.

 

I don't view that as a problem. If it means Hunter plays elsewhere, I'm happy.

[CubfaninCA]

I'm not completely opposed to getting Hunter, but I wouldn't want to give up too much to get him.

 

If I could get Hunter for Patterson, or Hunter for Wellemeyer, or Hunter for Mitre...or something along those lines, I might take him even at that salary.

 

If the Twins are looking to unload all the salary and get decent players in return, I'd have to pass. The salary is a burden that can be overcome. The Cubs have money to spend. I wouldn't want to trade too much in the way of players.

 

If it was a 3 year salary at $10 million per year, the Cubs would have to pass. However, it's one year, w/ an option for 07, w/ a $2 mil. buyout, iirc. Perhaps the Cubs could resign him to something more reasonable and go w/ Pie in rf?? Given the poor free agency crop this offseason and the Cubs available fundage getting Hunter for a year is a reasonable move. Also, would hope they could get a little more if it's Walker and Patterson for Hunter. Perhaps a pitcher.

 

This lineup should be able to crack the top 5 in runs (they're only 13 runs out of 5th actually)... Furcal, Cedeno, Lee, ARam, Nomah, Hunter, Murton & Barrett. Just have to hope Murton's not a flash in the pan and Cedeno doesn't turn into Corey Patterson. What has killed the Cubs team obp is 900 at-bats by Patterson and Neifi. Ouch!

Edited September 16, 2005 by CubfaninCA

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Here's the problem: There's no way that you're getting Hunter for that little. It just isnt' going to happen based on his perceived value. Ryan's definitely smart enough to sucker someone(I'm looking at you Jim Bowden) into trading a bunch of talent for Hunter.

 

I don't view that as a problem. If it means Hunter plays elsewhere, I'm happy.

 

Well, me too. I hate language.

[goonys evil twin]

If it was a 3 year salary at $10 million per year, the Cubs would have to pass. However, it's one year, w/ an option for 07, w/ a $2 mil. buyout, iirc. Perhaps the Cubs could resign him to something more reasonable and go w/ Pie in rf?? Given the poor free agency crop this offseason and the Cubs available fundage getting Hunter for a year is a reasonable move. Also, would hope they could get a little more if it's Walker and Patterson for Hunter. Perhaps a pitcher.

 

This lineup should be able to crack the top 5 in run (they're only 13 runs out of 5th actually)... Furcal, Cedeno, Lee, ARam, Nomah, Hunter, Murton & Barrett. Just have to hope Murton's not a flash in the pan and Cedeno doesn't turn into Corey Patterson. What has killed the Cubs team obp is 900 at-bats by Patterson and Neifi. Ouch!

 

Hunter and Pie in the same OF in 2007 would require immense production from the LF. Both are likely to produce, at best, mediocre CF numbers, neither will be a credible RF.

 

It's not just Corey and Neifi that has killed team OBP. Team OBP has sucked for years because the Cubs never address it, anywhere. Your lineup is still likely to have bottom half OBP. It's not just the worst players that struggle, it's the fact that the better ones are still usually just above average. Don't count on Lee at .420 next season. Your lineup is basically adding Furcal and Hunter to this team, which will cost a ton of money, and make it tough to address any pitching problems. I don't see enough likely improvement to justify the cost. I think that's a wild card contender at most. They need to make a 95+ win team.

[Tim]

here's something sportscenter addicts probably wouldn't realize: Hunter has been a below average CF for three of the past four years. According to BP, his FRAA numbers have been -17, -5, -1 and 7 from 2002-2005. His overall WARP3 numbers are: 5.0, 4.1, 5.0, 5.0.

 

In that same timeframe, Corey's fielding numbers are: -14, -2, 3, 0. His WARP3 numbers are: 1.5, 3.2, 5.2, 0.7.

 

Corey's 2004 season that people like to rag on so much was better than Hunter's best season out of the past four years. Now, where Hunter has a huge advantage is in consistency. But I don't really want to pay $6-10M for consistency. I'd much, much rather take a chance on getting good production from one of our existing CF's and invest in RF or LF.

 

FWIW - I'd look into a Mike Cameron trade and accept that for a year while waiting for Pie. But not in lieu of upgrading RF.

[treebird]

FWIW - I'd look into a Mike Cameron trade and accept that for a year while waiting for Pie. But not in lieu of upgrading RF.

 

i've been thinking the exact same thing.

[CubfaninCA]

If it was a 3 year salary at $10 million per year, the Cubs would have to pass. However, it's one year, w/ an option for 07, w/ a $2 mil. buyout, iirc. Perhaps the Cubs could resign him to something more reasonable and go w/ Pie in rf?? Given the poor free agency crop this offseason and the Cubs available fundage getting Hunter for a year is a reasonable move. Also, would hope they could get a little more if it's Walker and Patterson for Hunter. Perhaps a pitcher.

 

This lineup should be able to crack the top 5 in run (they're only 13 runs out of 5th actually)... Furcal, Cedeno, Lee, ARam, Nomah, Hunter, Murton & Barrett. Just have to hope Murton's not a flash in the pan and Cedeno doesn't turn into Corey Patterson. What has killed the Cubs team obp is 900 at-bats by Patterson and Neifi. Ouch!

 

Hunter and Pie in the same OF in 2007 would require immense production from the LF. Both are likely to produce, at best, mediocre CF numbers, neither will be a credible RF.

 

It's not just Corey and Neifi that has killed team OBP. Team OBP has sucked for years because the Cubs never address it, anywhere. Your lineup is still likely to have bottom half OBP. It's not just the worst players that struggle, it's the fact that the better ones are still usually just above average. Don't count on Lee at .420 next season. Your lineup is basically adding Furcal and Hunter to this team, which will cost a ton of money, and make it tough to address any pitching problems. I don't see enough likely improvement to justify the cost. I think that's a wild card contender at most. They need to make a 95+ win team.

 

Well, it's not like there's a ton of options for the outfield. Realistically, the Cubs aren't getting Giles or Dunn or Sheffield or Berkman or Manny or Griffey or Huff. There's just not a lot out there. Just have to hope that Murton & Pie are the real deal and get some other stop gaps in the interim, such as Nomar.

[goonys evil twin]

But Tim, he robbed Barry Bonds in the All Star game, you just can't use a stat to measure the importance of such a play.

 

 

 

I'm not Cameron fan, but I'd take him over Hunter.

[goonys evil twin]

Well, it's not like there's a ton of options for the outfield. Realistically, the Cubs aren't getting Giles or Dunn or Sheffield or Berkman or Manny or Griffey or Huff. There's just not a lot out there. Just have to hope that Murton & Pie are the real deal and get some other stop gaps in the interim, such as Nomar.

 

If that's the strategy, then why play, and why pay for Hunter? I don't buy that they can't get better OF offense. Why can't they get Giles? Why can't they trade for an impact bat? They can, they should, and they should not settle on $10million stop gaps.

[CubfaninCA]

here's something sportscenter addicts probably wouldn't realize: Hunter has been a below average CF for three of the past four years. According to BP, his FRAA numbers have been -17, -5, -1 and 7 from 2002-2005. His overall WARP3 numbers are: 5.0, 4.1, 5.0, 5.0.

 

In that same timeframe, Corey's fielding numbers are: -14, -2, 3, 0. His WARP3 numbers are: 1.5, 3.2, 5.2, 0.7.

 

Corey's 2004 season that people like to rag on so much was better than Hunter's best season out of the past four years. Now, where Hunter has a huge advantage is in consistency. But I don't really want to pay $6-10M for consistency. I'd much, much rather take a chance on getting good production from one of our existing CF's and invest in RF or LF.

 

FWIW - I'd look into a Mike Cameron trade and accept that for a year while waiting for Pie. But not in lieu of upgrading RF.

 

Corey's going to produce, but probably not in Chicago. Too bad the fans have got on him so bad. They should lay off some. He's young.

 

What do the Mets need that the Cubs have??