No Love for Neifi?

[YearofDaCubs]

Sorry, but when you start discounting OBP you are falling into hendry territory and you see how that has worked out for us last year. Clearly, one of our biggest problems has been OBP so to even discount that, or think it is not a big deal is ridiculous. Neifi has been ok for us. If Nomar did not get hurt Neifi wouldnt be an issue here, but because Nomar did get hurt we had to rely a lot on Neifi. The problem mostly lies with Baker who was benching a good young promising player in Cedeno who was tearing and IMO desereved to come up to the majors and play. Neifi should have never been in the #2 hole to begin with but I dont blame Neifi for this, I blame Baker. We dont NEED Neifi here next year so if he thinks he can find a job as a starter, well good luck and we wont miss ya.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

In the paper today...

 

Perez is batting .282 with an on-base percentage of .306. He will be a free agent, and the Cubs would like to have him as a backup again.

 

“My body tells me I can play every day,” Perez said. “I might be looking for a starting job for somebody. I feel happy here to play for a manager like Dusty Baker. I want to come back. I don’t only play shortstop. I can play second base.”

 

Would it be a problem to sign Nomar for SS, go with Perez at 2nd and hopefull hit him in the 8th hole? Maybe 7th on days Blanco gets the node?

 

Thoughts?

[BigbadB]

If Neifi were an RBI guy hitting 6th or 7th you could possibly make an argument that a high BA is more important than an OBP, on the basis that his role is to drive in the 3-4-5 hitters.

 

However, Neifi bats 2nd too often, and his role should be to get on base in front of Lee, Ramirez, Nomar, Burnitz, etc. Thus, a higher OBP is better because it increases the RBI opportunities that our run producers have.

 

I'm in total agreement with this. I wouldn't have a problem with Neifi one bit if he hit .280 in the 7th or 8th spot all year. That's where you hide guys who have bad OBP's. In reality, a guy with a decent AVG, but horrible OBP is better suited hitting behind the production guys, because he can turn those hits into RBI's. Unfortunately, it's Dusty Baker who put Neifi at the top of the line up, and it's decisions like that that will force Cub fans to watch other teams play in October.

 

Neifi is a quality back up. He's done an alright job filling in for injured players. But, at no time should he have ever been considered for top of the order duties. That falls on the manager.

 

I think a lot of the hatred for Neifi has a whole lot more to do with how Baker used Neifi than what Neifi has done with a bat.

 

Neifi is what Neifi is. To the person who suggests that Neifi should have made some sort of adjustment when put in a top of the order spot, it's not that simple. He's never been a guy who had plate patience or good pitch selection. You can't change that.

 

This team just doesn't grasp the concept of the importance of OBP at the top of the order. And they are sitting at home in October partially because of just that.

 

Derrek Lee is having an incredible offensive year, yet he still has not surpassed the 100 RBI plateau. To give you an idea what Lee might have done with a couple of decent OBP guys at the top of the order, look at what Manny Ramirez has done this year:

 

.280 AVG compared to Lee's .341. That's a 61 point swing in AVG. 64 XBH's to Lee's 88 XBH's. That's 24 more XBH's. Manny has 135 hits in 132 games compared to Lee's 180 hits in 139 games. Manny has 120 RBI's and Lee still hasn't broken 100.

 

Now, how can this be? The Cubs OBP from the lead off spot this year is .300. That's not the AVG, that's the OBP. The OBP for the #2 hitter this year is .321.

 

The Red Sox lead off hitters are getting on base at a .360 clip. The #2 hitters are at a .359 OBP.

 

That's why Manny Ramirez has 21 more RBI's than Derrek Lee. Even though Manny is hitting .280, has less at bats and less XBH's. Between the #1 and #2 hitters, the Red Sox have scored 219 times (lead off 113 times and #2 hitter 106 times). The Cubs lead off hitter has crossed the plate 77 times. The Cubs #2 hitter has crossed the plate 79 times.

 

That, my friends, is PATHETIC!!

 

OBP is not the be all-end all stat. But, at the top of the order it sure is. If Derrek Lee had good OBP guys in front of him all year like Manny has, he would be approaching the RBI record. And that boost in RBI's from the #3 hitter alone would have meant a lot more Cub wins. Give the #4 hitter more RBI opportunities and that also would have provided even more wins.

 

This horrible season is all on Dusty.

[Backtobanks]

If Neifi were an RBI guy hitting 6th or 7th you could possibly make an argument that a high BA is more important than an OBP, on the basis that his role is to drive in the 3-4-5 hitters.

 

However, Neifi bats 2nd too often, and his role should be to get on base in front of Lee, Ramirez, Nomar, Burnitz, etc. Thus, a higher OBP is better because it increases the RBI opportunities that our run producers have.

 

I'm in total agreement with this. I wouldn't have a problem with Neifi one bit if he hit .280 in the 7th or 8th spot all year. That's where you hide guys who have bad OBP's. In reality, a guy with a decent AVG, but horrible OBP is better suited hitting behind the production guys, because he can turn those hits into RBI's. Unfortunately, it's Dusty Baker who put Neifi at the top of the line up, and it's decisions like that that will force Cub fans to watch other teams play in October.

 

Neifi is a quality back up. He's done an alright job filling in for injured players. But, at no time should he have ever been considered for top of the order duties. That falls on the manager.

 

I think a lot of the hatred for Neifi has a whole lot more to do with how Baker used Neifi than what Neifi has done with a bat.

 

Neifi is what Neifi is. To the person who suggests that Neifi should have made some sort of adjustment when put in a top of the order spot, it's not that simple. He's never been a guy who had plate patience or good pitch selection. You can't change that.

 

This team just doesn't grasp the concept of the importance of OBP at the top of the order. And they are sitting at home in October partially because of just that.

 

Derrek Lee is having an incredible offensive year, yet he still has not surpassed the 100 RBI plateau. To give you an idea what Lee might have done with a couple of decent OBP guys at the top of the order, look at what Manny Ramirez has done this year:

 

.280 AVG compared to Lee's .341. That's a 61 point swing in AVG. 64 XBH's to Lee's 88 XBH's. That's 24 more XBH's. Manny has 135 hits in 132 games compared to Lee's 180 hits in 139 games. Manny has 120 RBI's and Lee still hasn't broken 100.

 

Now, how can this be? The Cubs OBP from the lead off spot this year is .300. That's not the AVG, that's the OBP. The OBP for the #2 hitter this year is .321.

 

The Red Sox lead off hitters are getting on base at a .360 clip. The #2 hitters are at a .359 OBP.

 

That's why Manny Ramirez has 21 more RBI's than Derrek Lee. Even though Manny is hitting .280, has less at bats and less XBH's. Between the #1 and #2 hitters, the Red Sox have scored 219 times (lead off 113 times and #2 hitter 106 times). The Cubs lead off hitter has crossed the plate 77 times. The Cubs #2 hitter has crossed the plate 79 times.

 

That, my friends, is PATHETIC!!

 

OBP is not the be all-end all stat. But, at the top of the order it sure is. If Derrek Lee had good OBP guys in front of him all year like Manny has, he would be approaching the RBI record. And that boost in RBI's from the #3 hitter alone would have meant a lot more Cub wins. Give the #4 hitter more RBI opportunities and that also would have provided even more wins.

 

This horrible season is all on Dusty.

 

You used statistics to say what I said a few pages ago....Dusty is clueless. Dusty is not to blame for this whole season, but his stubborness and cluelessness has cost the team at least 10 games which would put them into the playoffs as the Wild Card.

[YearofDaCubs]

In the paper today...

 

Perez is batting .282 with an on-base percentage of .306. He will be a free agent, and the Cubs would like to have him as a backup again.

 

“My body tells me I can play every day,” Perez said. “I might be looking for a starting job for somebody. I feel happy here to play for a manager like Dusty Baker. I want to come back. I don’t only play shortstop. I can play second base.”

 

Would it be a problem to sign Nomar for SS, go with Perez at 2nd and hopefull hit him in the 8th hole? Maybe 7th on days Blanco gets the node?

 

Thoughts?

Yes, it would be a problem. With the payroll we have and with Walker, Hairston, and Cedeno here it would be foolish to allow Neifi to be a full time player.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

In the paper today...

 

Perez is batting .282 with an on-base percentage of .306. He will be a free agent, and the Cubs would like to have him as a backup again.

 

“My body tells me I can play every day,” Perez said. “I might be looking for a starting job for somebody. I feel happy here to play for a manager like Dusty Baker. I want to come back. I don’t only play shortstop. I can play second base.”

 

Would it be a problem to sign Nomar for SS, go with Perez at 2nd and hopefull hit him in the 8th hole? Maybe 7th on days Blanco gets the node?

 

Thoughts?

Why would you possibly want Neifi over Todd?

[goonys evil twin]

In the paper today...

 

Perez is batting .282 with an on-base percentage of .306. He will be a free agent, and the Cubs would like to have him as a backup again.

 

“My body tells me I can play every day,” Perez said. “I might be looking for a starting job for somebody. I feel happy here to play for a manager like Dusty Baker. I want to come back. I don’t only play shortstop. I can play second base.”

 

Would it be a problem to sign Nomar for SS, go with Perez at 2nd and hopefull hit him in the 8th hole? Maybe 7th on days Blanco gets the node?

 

Thoughts?

Yes, it would be a problem. With the payroll we have and with Walker, Hairston, and Cedeno here it would be foolish to allow Neifi to be a full time player.

 

It would not be a problem for a team like the Yankees or Red Sox to settle for Neifi as their 8th hitting 2B. Assuming that team didn't have a decent young/cheap option in the system, and assuming they didn't already have access to an affordable/productive veteran via a team option, a team already guaranteed to have a top offense can afford to take the hit. The Cubs, however, are not a team with guaranteed production. They need to take it where they can get it, and are not capable of simply hiding guys. They need so many improvements that it would be foolish to purposefully take a step back at a position of relative strength.

 

If Ronny Cedeno did not exist, and the Cubs didn't own an option on Todd Walker, and they were able to sign a top flight RF, and they were able to acquire a solid CF, and Matt Murton was given 2 months of playing time this year to answer the questions about his ability to play at this level full time, and there were no other reasonable options, then I would consider bringing Neifi back as a starter. But the man is a backup. He's a utility player. With a smart manager I'd be happy to have Neifi as the backup to Nomar/Walker, Nomer/Cedeno or Cedeno/Walker. But lots of things would have to change with this team before I'd be willing to settle on Neifi as the starter.

[J.R.]

This horrible season is all on Dusty.

 

Awesome post.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

In the paper today...

 

Perez is batting .282 with an on-base percentage of .306. He will be a free agent, and the Cubs would like to have him as a backup again.

 

“My body tells me I can play every day,” Perez said. “I might be looking for a starting job for somebody. I feel happy here to play for a manager like Dusty Baker. I want to come back. I don’t only play shortstop. I can play second base.”

 

Would it be a problem to sign Nomar for SS, go with Perez at 2nd and hopefull hit him in the 8th hole? Maybe 7th on days Blanco gets the node?

 

Thoughts?

 

Yeah, it would. Walker and Cedeno would be better offensive options than Neifi. And they are both under contract (option for Walker) for next season (and at a good bargain).

 

And with Dusty around, I don't see Neifi batting 8th.

[sethuel1]

If Neifi were an RBI guy hitting 6th or 7th you could possibly make an argument that a high BA is more important than an OBP, on the basis that his role is to drive in the 3-4-5 hitters.

 

However, Neifi bats 2nd too often, and his role should be to get on base in front of Lee, Ramirez, Nomar, Burnitz, etc. Thus, a higher OBP is better because it increases the RBI opportunities that our run producers have.

 

I'm in total agreement with this. I wouldn't have a problem with Neifi one bit if he hit .280 in the 7th or 8th spot all year. That's where you hide guys who have bad OBP's. In reality, a guy with a decent AVG, but horrible OBP is better suited hitting behind the production guys, because he can turn those hits into RBI's. Unfortunately, it's Dusty Baker who put Neifi at the top of the line up, and it's decisions like that that will force Cub fans to watch other teams play in October.

 

Neifi is a quality back up. He's done an alright job filling in for injured players. But, at no time should he have ever been considered for top of the order duties. That falls on the manager.

 

I think a lot of the hatred for Neifi has a whole lot more to do with how Baker used Neifi than what Neifi has done with a bat.

 

Neifi is what Neifi is. To the person who suggests that Neifi should have made some sort of adjustment when put in a top of the order spot, it's not that simple. He's never been a guy who had plate patience or good pitch selection. You can't change that.

 

This team just doesn't grasp the concept of the importance of OBP at the top of the order. And they are sitting at home in October partially because of just that.

 

Derrek Lee is having an incredible offensive year, yet he still has not surpassed the 100 RBI plateau. To give you an idea what Lee might have done with a couple of decent OBP guys at the top of the order, look at what Manny Ramirez has done this year:

 

.280 AVG compared to Lee's .341. That's a 61 point swing in AVG. 64 XBH's to Lee's 88 XBH's. That's 24 more XBH's. Manny has 135 hits in 132 games compared to Lee's 180 hits in 139 games. Manny has 120 RBI's and Lee still hasn't broken 100.

 

Now, how can this be? The Cubs OBP from the lead off spot this year is .300. That's not the AVG, that's the OBP. The OBP for the #2 hitter this year is .321.

 

The Red Sox lead off hitters are getting on base at a .360 clip. The #2 hitters are at a .359 OBP.

 

That's why Manny Ramirez has 21 more RBI's than Derrek Lee. Even though Manny is hitting .280, has less at bats and less XBH's. Between the #1 and #2 hitters, the Red Sox have scored 219 times (lead off 113 times and #2 hitter 106 times). The Cubs lead off hitter has crossed the plate 77 times. The Cubs #2 hitter has crossed the plate 79 times.

 

That, my friends, is PATHETIC!!

 

OBP is not the be all-end all stat. But, at the top of the order it sure is. If Derrek Lee had good OBP guys in front of him all year like Manny has, he would be approaching the RBI record. And that boost in RBI's from the #3 hitter alone would have meant a lot more Cub wins. Give the #4 hitter more RBI opportunities and that also would have provided even more wins.

 

This horrible season is all on Dusty.

 

You are a golden god.

[Careless]

Neifi's 14th in ops amongst shortstops and one of the best defenders @ one of the most important positions on the field. Basically, he's an alright starter for his production and salary. However, he should never bat 2nd. If he batted 7th or 8th, that would be fine. Unless you're NY or Boston, you aren't going to have obp monsters throughout your lineup.

14 of 23, .060 from the bottom and .196 from the top if you remove #1 and #23 (yes, that's unfair statistical analysis because #2 is .001 off #1 while #23 is .020 from #22,. but I'm sticking with it anyway)

But yeah, he is fairly cheap and hasn't been nearly as bad as one would expect. if you A) fire dusty so he bats at the bottom, B) get more hitting on the team, and C) can promise that he won;t hit like he did before this season, (oh, and D) he signs extremely cheaply), he wouldn't be such a terrible choice for next season. You can't do that though.

[BigbadB]

Just speaking the facts. Fact for the night of 9/12/05, the two guys hitting at the top of the order for the Cubs have lower OBP's than the guy who's hitting 7th's AVG.

 

But, what do I know? :P

[frostwyrm]

Neifi in a 3-22 slump after tonight's game, but still batting 2nd, in front of Lee.

[sethuel1]

You know what I love? The Neifi Perez oh-maybe-I'll-drag-bunt-wait-maybe-not-oh-crap-that-was-a-strike move. Love it.

 

 

It's become my new favorite since the Moises Alou oh-damn-its-outside-but-i-can't-stop-my-swing-so-I'll-ground-weakly-to-short move has been gone.

[Chris]

Neifi in a 3-22 slump after tonight's game, but still batting 2nd, in front of Lee.

 

But that GW hit yesterday cancels out the bad