MADDUX VESTING PARTY!!!

[JC]

By my count, Maddux will likely vest into his $9M option tonight.

 

In 2004: 213.2 innings

So far in 2005: 184.2 innings

 

That is a total of 398.1 innings. As such, he is 1.2 innings away from vesting at 400 innings.

 

Barring a complete shelling by the Cards, Maddux should cement his 2006 legacy as the most expensive 5th starter in the league.

[minnesotacubsfan]

good thing we didnt overpay for Clement

 

:twak:

[Chocolate Milk]

good thing we didnt overpay for Clement

 

:twak:

 

Me too. The last thing we need is another overpaid pitcher.

[Peoriaman]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

[Transmogrified Tiger]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

 

Well, if by second best you mean worse than Zambrano, Prior, Wood when healthy, and maybe Rusch too, then that'd be correct.

[JC]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

 

Not to worry. He will probably get an extension and raise.

[Banedon]

Well....he could still retire... :?

[Chocolate Milk]

You got to hand it to him though, the man can pitch some innings.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Do you think they'll stop the game for an ovation when he gets it? ;)

[SouthSideRyan]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

 

Well, if by second best you mean worse than Zambrano, Prior, Wood when healthy, and maybe Rusch too, then that'd be correct.

 

I hate to sound like K-Town but actually logging innings helps too. Maddux has undoubtedly been a better pitcher than Wood the past 2 years, because he's actually been on the mound.

[Derwood]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

 

Um, sure, if you're simply looking at Wins:

 

Zambrano - 28-13

Maddux - 27-22

Prior - 16-9

Wood - 11-13

 

But he has the worst two-year ERA of the four, the lowest K/9IP, and this year, the worst WHIP. He also leads the 2005 Cubs in losses, HR allowed, Hits allowed, lowest Pitches/Start, and earned runs.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

 

Um, sure, if you're simply looking at Wins:

 

Zambrano - 28-13

Maddux - 27-22

Prior - 16-9

Wood - 11-13

 

But he has the worst two-year ERA of the four, the lowest K/9IP, and this year, the worst WHIP. He also leads the 2005 Cubs in losses, HR allowed, Hits allowed, lowest Pitches/Start, and earned runs.

 

Maddux isn't a strike out pitcher, those other guys are. He also doesn't use as many pitches for that same reason. He's way more efficient than them. And you can't put Kerry Wood ahead of Greg Maddux for the past two years. To be helping the team, you actually have to be on the mound. He's been our third best, possibly second best, whether we like to admit it or not.

[ConstableRabbit]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

 

Um, sure, if you're simply looking at Wins:

 

Zambrano - 28-13

Maddux - 27-22

Prior - 16-9

Wood - 11-13

 

But he has the worst two-year ERA of the four, the lowest K/9IP, and this year, the worst WHIP. He also leads the 2005 Cubs in losses, HR allowed, Hits allowed, lowest Pitches/Start, and earned runs.

 

Those facts are misleading... doesn't he also have better run support to go with his higher ERA?

[Peoriaman]

He also has been an inning eater for us.

 

Like it or not, he isn't our #5 pitcher, he is far from it.

 

 

The hits don't bother me, as he rarely walks guys. You Billy Beane guys should actually like that in a pitcher. :)

Edited September 7, 2005 by Peoriaman

[Transmogrified Tiger]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

 

Um, sure, if you're simply looking at Wins:

 

Zambrano - 28-13

Maddux - 27-22

Prior - 16-9

Wood - 11-13

 

But he has the worst two-year ERA of the four, the lowest K/9IP, and this year, the worst WHIP. He also leads the 2005 Cubs in losses, HR allowed, Hits allowed, lowest Pitches/Start, and earned runs.

 

Those facts are misleading... doesn't he also have better run support to go with his higher ERA?

 

Why does the run support matter? It's not like he has a .900 OPS to help make up for the difference, it's out of his control.

[biittner77]

Maddux has value as an innings eater, is occasionally very good and brings experience and success to the team. He 's reliable in that he doesn't get hurt. It's hard to argue that he's not contributing.

 

The argument lies in whether or not he's worth what the Cubs are paying him. Also, is the money that they're paying him stopping the Cubs from using that money elsewhere?

 

I would argue that very few MLB players are worth what they're getting paid. Some are worth more but many are worth less. To my mind Maddux is not worth $9 million next season but I don't really mind because the Cubs can still afford anyone they might want and Maddux is making a positive contribution.

[ConstableRabbit]

well, he has been our second best pitcher the last 2 years.....

 

Um, sure, if you're simply looking at Wins:

 

Zambrano - 28-13

Maddux - 27-22

Prior - 16-9

Wood - 11-13

 

But he has the worst two-year ERA of the four, the lowest K/9IP, and this year, the worst WHIP. He also leads the 2005 Cubs in losses, HR allowed, Hits allowed, lowest Pitches/Start, and earned runs.

 

Those facts are misleading... doesn't he also have better run support to go with his higher ERA?

 

Why does the run support matter? It's not like he has a .900 OPS to help make up for the difference, it's out of his control.

 

I don't know how/where to get his actual run support numbers but I've said this before:

 

If one pitcher on my team has a high era and high run support, and ends up with a good win-loss record, he's more valuable to my team than another pitcher on the team with a low era and lower run support. Sure, the latter has pitched better, but was he more valuable to the team?

 

If I was looking for a free agent pitcher, I'd almost completely ignore his win totals, because that can obviously change depending on a team (see Russ Ortiz), but during a season, wins are simply the bottom line, and for whatever reason, sometimes the team hits better when a certain guy is on the mound, or worse for another.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

The argument lies in whether or not he's worth what the Cubs are paying him. Also, is the money that they're paying him stopping the Cubs from using that money elsewhere?

 

That's fine. But what I don't get it that everyone gets so mad about Maddux being paid that much to eat up innings, while Kerry Wood gets paid that much to be hurt. Why aren't as many people complaining about that. That's money that is completely wasted. While at least Maddux is out there earning a little of it. They're at least getting something for their buck with Maddux, as opposed to Wood.

[abuck1220]

i don't see what the big deal is about a guy who 'eats innings'. anybody (when healthy, of course) can eat innings if the manager just leaves him in there to get hit. hell, rusch could have pitched seven innings in each of his four starts prior to last night...he would have given up a crapload of runs, but i guess eating innings is some kind of accomplishment.

[EricG]

I am rooting for him to get 15 wins. It's kind of hopeless, he needs 4 wins and has maybe 5 starts left.

[littleburr24]

I am rooting for him to get 15 wins. It's kind of hopeless, he needs 4 wins and has maybe 5 starts left.

 

I counted six, I may be wrong. But hey, six starts gives him two more chances, granted it isn't much, but it's something.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

i don't see what the big deal is about a guy who 'eats innings'. anybody (when healthy, of course) can eat innings if the manager just leaves him in there to get hit. hell, rusch could have pitched seven innings in each of his four starts prior to last night...he would have given up a crapload of runs, but i guess eating innings is some kind of accomplishment.

 

It is an accomplishment when you have an injury plagued rotation and an overworked bullpen. He saves those guys the extra work, and he puts in quality innings as opposed to just leaving someone in for extra innings and watching them get shelled.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I am rooting for him to get 15 wins. It's kind of hopeless, he needs 4 wins and has maybe 5 starts left.

 

I counted six, I may be wrong. But hey, six starts gives him two more chances, granted it isn't much, but it's something.

 

I want him to get it, but I don't think he will this year. When he's pitched well, he's been shafted with run support lately. In one of the earlier threads about this, it was posted that he has really gotten a lot of losses or ND when he gives up three runs or less.

[abuck1220]

i don't see what the big deal is about a guy who 'eats innings'. anybody (when healthy, of course) can eat innings if the manager just leaves him in there to get hit. hell, rusch could have pitched seven innings in each of his four starts prior to last night...he would have given up a crapload of runs, but i guess eating innings is some kind of accomplishment.

 

It is an accomplishment when you have an injury plagued rotation and an overworked bullpen. He saves those guys the extra work, and he puts in quality innings as opposed to just leaving someone in for extra innings and watching them get shelled.

 

i dont' know...i guess i don't really care if our bullpen gets taxed. everyone out there sucks anyway, and when you're carrying 19 pitchers, nobody should really get that worn down. maybe i'd feel different if we had the same guys out there all season, each with their own defined roles. a guy only going five innings w/ that setup would screw with the use of the pen more.

 

i'd rather have five good innings than six so-so innings.

[ConstableRabbit]

i don't see what the big deal is about a guy who 'eats innings'. anybody (when healthy, of course) can eat innings if the manager just leaves him in there to get hit. hell, rusch could have pitched seven innings in each of his four starts prior to last night...he would have given up a crapload of runs, but i guess eating innings is some kind of accomplishment.

 

It is an accomplishment when you have an injury plagued rotation and an overworked bullpen. He saves those guys the extra work, and he puts in quality innings as opposed to just leaving someone in for extra innings and watching them get shelled.

 

i dont' know...i guess i don't really care if our bullpen gets taxed. everyone out there sucks anyway, and when you're carrying 19 pitchers, nobody should really get that worn down. maybe i'd feel different if we had the same guys out there all season, each with their own defined roles. a guy only going five innings w/ that setup would screw with the use of the pen more.

 

i'd rather have five good innings than six so-so innings.

 

I know what you mean. I think it would be a much different situation if we had an organized bullpen.