What Should We Have Expected?

[JC]

How can a team compete when it:

 

-Has a key starter able to start just over ten games

-Has multiple projected starters on the DL at once

-Loses a key bat to the DL following an infield collision

-Loses an All-Star infielder to the DL for an extended period

-Forced to play several rookies, some straight from AA

-Has early season trouble closing games

-Has trouble with OBP at the leadoff position for 1/2 season

-Despite having an MVP candidate on the team?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ask the Braves.

74-56, leading the NL East by 4.5 games.

[XZero771679666304]

How can a team compete when it:

 

-Has a key starter able to start just over ten games

-Has multiple projected starters on the DL at once

-Loses a key bat to the DL following an infield collision

-Loses an All-Star infielder to the DL for an extended period

-Forced to play several rookies, some straight from AA

-Has early season trouble closing games

-Has trouble with OBP at the leadoff position for 1/2 season

-Despite having an MVP candidate on the team?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ask the Braves.

74-56, leading the NL East by 4.5 games.

 

And their bullpen has been an injury riddled mess all year, with their closer disappointing terribly.

 

There is simply no excuse for what has happened this year, and the implication is clear: The field level management of the Cubs has been terrible.

[CuseCubFan69]

But did the Braves have a bunch of bad hops? I doubt it.

[JC]

But did the Braves have a bunch of bad hops? I doubt it.

 

Most of their players aren't even old enough to drink beer, so I hardly see how that is relevant. :pint:

[CarolinaCubFan]

I'll refer back to the PTI interview with Smoltz again. He mentioned that Cox used the kids. He went on about the fire and excitement they brought to the veterans. Do you think Cox will plug in Holly to replace one of those kids?

[UK1679666180]

Better philosophy, better farm system, better manager, better GM. It'll be difficult to compare any team with the Braves, especially one that has performed as badly as the Cubs this year.

[LoneStarCubFan]

Well yeah, but Atlanta plays in a softer division, they can get away with playing kids... :roll:

[JC]

Do you think Cox will plug in Holly to replace one of those kids?

 

I suspect Holla will be used primarily as a power LH bat off the bench who can play outfield when needed, and possibly some 1B.

 

That would be a novel approach.

[CarolinaCubFan]

Better philosophy, better farm system, better manager, better GM. It'll be difficult to compare any team with the Braves, especially one that has performed as badly as the Cubs this year.

 

So what do you think UK, what is the biggest problem to deal with this offseason? Players or management? We've got holes on the roster, but I'm not confident in our management no matter who they bring in to play.

[erik316wttn]

Few things can fire up a team more than a rookie who comes and tears up the league after being called up. The whole team can rally behind him.

[neely crenshaw]

players are a huge problem, however the genral manager that brought us an outfield of holla,hairston and nurnitz should seriously pay the price. how can you expect a guy who thought that was enough to win a pennent to know how to fix it?

[Banedon]

There are times I really wonder what Bobby Cox and his staff could do with the Cubs....

[CarolinaCubFan]

players are a huge problem, however the genral manager that brought us an outfield of holla,hairston and nurnitz should seriously pay the price. how can you expect a guy who thought that was enough to win a pennent to know how to fix it?

 

I'm not big on Hendry right now, but I am willing to give him a get out of jail free card, this one and final time. He had this team heading in the right direction until Baker's arrival. Baker is the root of many issues, if Hendry is unable to deal with Baker this offseason, well, I'm sorry Jim Hendry.

[dalgreen]

There are times I really wonder what Bobby Cox and his staff could do with the Cubs....

 

Maybe a few games better. But I just don't see how you can compare Dubois, Murton and Cedeno to Franceur, Johnson, McCann and Bettimit. I don't know why some people think playing kids is the answer. It's not. Playing good kids is. I will go on my soapbox again. They seem to always have kids who are already ready to play when brought up. Our guys seem to still have to be taught. Age is about the only thing our kids have in common with theirs.

[CuseCubFan69]

There are times I really wonder what Bobby Cox and his staff could do with the Cubs....

 

Maybe a few games better. But I just don't see how you can compare Dubois, Murton and Cedeno to Franceur, Johnson, McCann and Bettimit. I don't know why some people think playing kids is the answer. It's not. Playing good kids is. I will go on my soapbox again. They seem to always have kids who are already ready to play when brought up. Our guys seem to still have to be taught. Age is about the only thing our kids have in common with theirs.

 

You know Dal, maybe the Braves organization has something over the Cubs....it's confidence. Look at Cruz. He struggled here and at Oakland but he pitched well in Atlanta. I think Cox and his staff know how to win the mental aspect of the game for these young guys and that is half the battle. Some young players may be more talented but some are not, they just know how to use them better.

[YearofDaCubs]

It will be interesting to see what moves and trades Hendry makes this offseason. I'll tell you this though, if I don't see improvements on this team(especially the OF) I will boycott them.

[Tim]

There are times I really wonder what Bobby Cox and his staff could do with the Cubs....

 

Maybe a few games better. But I just don't see how you can compare Dubois, Murton and Cedeno to Franceur, Johnson, McCann and Bettimit. I don't know why some people think playing kids is the answer. It's not. Playing good kids is. I will go on my soapbox again. They seem to always have kids who are already ready to play when brought up. Our guys seem to still have to be taught. Age is about the only thing our kids have in common with theirs.

If Kelly Johnson had played for Dusty and gone 1-32 to start (or whatever it was), do you think he would have ever gotten another chance to come to the plate again?

 

Was the difference that Kelly Johnson is that much better than Dubois or was the difference that he got a chance, he got good coaching and he received the confidence of his manager that he could go out and do the best he could without worrying about his job?

 

I don't know the answer to that last question, btw. But I do know the answer to the first one.

[1908]

Was the difference that Kelly Johnson is that much better than Dubois or was the difference that he got a chance, he got good coaching and he received the confidence of his manager that he could go out and do the best he could without worrying about his job?

 

I don't know the answer to that last question, btw. But I do know the answer to the first one.

I suspect it was a little of both. There's no doubt in my mind than Johnson plays in a better environment for rookies, but he's also three years younger than Dubois.

[Backtobanks]

Also, Dusty will put up with a veteran that's in a 3-week slump, but let a rookie go 0-4 and he's back on the bench.

[sethuel1]

Also, Dusty will put up with a veteran that's in a 3-week slump, but let a rookie go 0-4 and he's back on the bench.

Also if a rookie goes 4-5 he's headed back to the bench

 

Jul. 18 @CIN W 9-4 5 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .450 .471 .921 .412

Jul. 19 @CIN W 7-3 Did not play

Jul. 20 @CIN L 9-3 Did not play

[dalgreen]

There are times I really wonder what Bobby Cox and his staff could do with the Cubs....

 

Maybe a few games better. But I just don't see how you can compare Dubois, Murton and Cedeno to Franceur, Johnson, McCann and Bettimit. I don't know why some people think playing kids is the answer. It's not. Playing good kids is. I will go on my soapbox again. They seem to always have kids who are already ready to play when brought up. Our guys seem to still have to be taught. Age is about the only thing our kids have in common with theirs.

If Kelly Johnson had played for Dusty and gone 1-32 to start (or whatever it was), do you think he would have ever gotten another chance to come to the plate again?

 

Was the difference that Kelly Johnson is that much better than Dubois or was the difference that he got a chance, he got good coaching and he received the confidence of his manager that he could go out and do the best he could without worrying about his job?

 

I don't know the answer to that last question, btw. But I do know the answer to the first one.

 

The answer to the first question is an emphatic "no". As a Patterson supporter, Baker has confused me with his patience with Patterson which seems to go against Baker's m.o. But I still think the Braves have more quality young guys than we do who happen to already know how to play the game by the time they are brought up.

[Soul]

Soul in February:

 

"Worst outfield in the league + shaky bullpen = 3rd place"

 

 

My God, how could I have been so far off? My formula was inexcusably bad. Now I know, it should have read:

 

"Worst outfield + shaky BP + no good closer until June + Woody, Prior injured + Nomar made of glass + Remmy junk + Dusty junk = 5th or 6th place"

 

I beg your forgiveness. Honest---I won't let it happen again.

[frostwyrm]

Also, Dusty will put up with a veteran that's in a 3-week slump, but let a rookie go 0-4 and he's back on the bench.

 

How about 8 weeks? Neifi put up a .560 OPS in June and a .570 in July. Cedeno would never see the playing field again after 2 months like that, or even 1 month.

[UK1679666180]

Better philosophy, better farm system, better manager, better GM. It'll be difficult to compare any team with the Braves, especially one that has performed as badly as the Cubs this year.

 

So what do you think UK, what is the biggest problem to deal with this offseason? Players or management? We've got holes on the roster, but I'm not confident in our management no matter who they bring in to play.

 

Well, we've found they don't have the players to win on the current roster. I don't care who was the manager, it would not have mattered this year.

 

To answer your question, it's both, they both share equal blame and equal determination for improvement.

 

I think it's incorrect to only blame Dusty and not blame Hendry and vice versa.

 

As much as I disagree with Dusty's belief system towards carelessness of pitchers, veteran bias, in-game strategy, etc, I look at Hendry's decision (I'm not sure if it was him or Andy) to cut the International scouting as well as focusing on issues that would determine the outcome of the '05 season (Sosa). Regardless, if the upper management forced his hands into trading Sosa, you can't sit back and let the quality replacements go to other teams in the process. I think this indecision of the start of FA limited their chances of getting a LF'er and a more quality RF'er as well as the pen, that doesn't have to be getting Percival or Benitez, but simple middle relief.

 

I think both Hendry and Baker have used flawed philosophies and that's where everything starts and snowballs.

 

I'll never question Hendry's hard work, everything I've seen him related to has been a tremendous work ethic and desire to improve the team and I'm sure it's been worse on him than all of the Cubs fans combined.

 

But...

 

To use a baseball analogy; You spend countless hours in the cage trying to improve your swing, the work ethic is there, but if you don't have a plan (or using flawed mechanics while trying to improve your swing) or you have a flawed plan you won't get anything done.

 

I'd put my trust in Dayton Moore as GM and see where that leads, if you want the honest truth and I'd assume he'd bring in a new manager. I hope he'd keep Stockstill and Oneri.

[Fro]

We need coaches who can be tough on the players and minimize mistakes and teach/practice/drill fundamentally sound baseball.

 

There's no excuse for a guy making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year (at the very least) not being able to lay down a good bunt 95% of the time, for example, or sliding head-first into 1st base when the guy is going for a forceout.

 

If we had a manager who'd drill that into people (and he doesn't necessarily need to be a discipline freak to do this), we'd be in the race still. Anyone who doesn't buy into that needs to get shipped off somewhere.

 

A lot of the Cubs "choking" is just due to bad fundamental baseball and playing stupid. We need to quit letting stupid errors beat us.

 

A big part of the difference between the Cubs and other teams is the Cubs play stupid baseball and the teams like the Braves and Cardinals play very sound baseball.