Trib says Walker "probably as good as gone"

[JeffH]

Burnitz's numbers last season suggested that there would be a significant dropoff - even over and above the Coors effect - which there has been.

 

Jones' numbers suggest that there might be a little bit more there if you can get him out of the Metrodome.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Burnitz's numbers last season suggested that there would be a significant dropoff - even over and above the Coors effect - which there has been.

 

Jones' numbers suggest that there might be a little bit more there if you can get him out of the Metrodome.

 

If I could get Jones reasonably for 1-2 years, I think he would be a serviceable bridge to Pie in CF.

[CubfaninCA]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Nomah @ 2b next year. Just bring back Hairston for insurance. Nomah's too erractic and doesn't have the range for SS anymore. Give Nomar $2 million base, w/ about $5 mil. in incentives. At least he has shown that he can still hit. (.879 ops since his return).

 

With the Cubs dangling Walker, just seems like they have something else up their sleeve w/ either Nomar, Kent, Soriano or Cedeno.

Edited August 29, 2005 by CubfaninCA

[CubfaninCA]

Jacque Jones, Adam Greenberg, and Brian Giles in left, center, and right.

 

Aramis Ramirez, Rafael Furcal, Julio Lugo, and Derrek Lee from third to first.

 

Michael Barrett behind the plate.

 

Murton, Patterson or Lofton in cf, Giles in rf..

ARam, Furcal, Nomaaah, Lee and Barrett

[Exile on Waveland]

I can't fathom why any intelligent observer of baseball would want Soriano over Walker.

 

we should get some of those intelligent observer folks to come and run the cubs.

 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. So, I'll cry instead*.

 

 

 

 

*And, yes, that's a Beatle reference. Oh, keep Walker, too.

[CubfaninCA]

Soriano: 281/319/532

Walker: 303/354/468

 

Is Soriano really an upgrade, especially when he'll cost 4-6 million more?

 

Also, Soriano's road splits for 2005:

237/274/401

 

I'd worry that he doesn't benefit greatly from the nice dimensions of Ameriquest Field.

 

While Walker does have better home numbers than road, his road splits are still:

284/339/475

 

I can't fathom why any intelligent observer of baseball would want Soriano over Walker.

 

Guess I'm part of the "unintelligent observer" group. Also, the market must be pretty stupid to give Sori $7.5 mil and Walk $2.5 mil. Either that or Walker has the worse agent in baseball history.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Also, the market must be pretty stupid to give Sori $7.5 mil and Walk $2.5 mil. Either that or Walker has the worse agent in baseball history.

 

We should probably get Preston Wilson and Chan Ho Park too.

[CubfaninCA]

Also, the market must be pretty stupid to give Sori $7.5 mil and Walk $2.5 mil. Either that or Walker has the worse agent in baseball history.

 

We should probably get Preston Wilson and Chan Ho Park too.

 

Park used to be good, and Walker should have hired Wilson's agent.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Soriano: 281/319/532

Walker: 303/354/468

 

Is Soriano really an upgrade, especially when he'll cost 4-6 million more?

 

Also, Soriano's road splits for 2005:

237/274/401

 

I'd worry that he doesn't benefit greatly from the nice dimensions of Ameriquest Field.

 

While Walker does have better home numbers than road, his road splits are still:

284/339/475

 

I can't fathom why any intelligent observer of baseball would want Soriano over Walker.

 

Guess I'm part of the "unintelligent observer" group. Also, the market must be pretty stupid to give Sori $7.5 mil and Walk $2.5 mil. Either that or Walker has the worse agent in baseball history.

 

The numbers are there.

 

Please show me by what metric other than salary that Soriano is the better player.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I guess I don't see why the Walker issue, stay or go, necessitates a discussion of Alfonso Soriano? Soriano stinks, he is so overrated for a few HRs and SBs, and so expensive! Any player, regardless of position, that cannot comfortably top a 300 OBP is not a valuable piece to the puzzle.

 

I think Walker is a legitimate possibility to be dumped because his defense is below average, he has no speed, and his intangibles are questionable (big mouth with the media, can't stay with one team, etc...) Yes, Walker can hit some, he is not the biggest problem on this team. And his contract is attractive.

 

But given his perceived negatives, I think Nomar (if cheap) with Hairston in reserve sounds better. Nomar is a better hitter; Hairston is a better defender with better speed. And if the Cubs can sign Furcal for SS, there is nothing to suggest Ronny Cedeno couldn't be tried at 2B, either. The Mets were willing to move Jose Reyes to 2B, and he is a much higher ceiling guy than Cedeno, even though he has been moved back to SS this year.

 

Point being, if the Cubs can get help elsewhere, and/or they feel Walker's negatives are something they no longer want to live with, there are options for the Cubs at 2B.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Nomar turned down a deal to play 2b with the Dodgers last year. I still think he'll believe he would make more as someone's shortstop than to settle for playing second for the Cubs.

[Exile on Waveland]

Also, the market must be pretty stupid to give Sori $7.5 mil and Walk $2.5 mil. Either that or Walker has the worse agent in baseball history.

 

We should probably get Preston Wilson and Chan Ho Park too.

 

Park used to be good, and Walker should have hired Wilson's agent.

 

 

Cubs: "Holy Crap, Park used to be good? Sign him up!"

[CubfaninCA]

Soriano: 281/319/532

Walker: 303/354/468

 

Is Soriano really an upgrade, especially when he'll cost 4-6 million more?

 

Also, Soriano's road splits for 2005:

237/274/401

 

I'd worry that he doesn't benefit greatly from the nice dimensions of Ameriquest Field.

 

While Walker does have better home numbers than road, his road splits are still:

284/339/475

 

I can't fathom why any intelligent observer of baseball would want Soriano over Walker.

 

Guess I'm part of the "unintelligent observer" group. Also, the market must be pretty stupid to give Sori $7.5 mil and Walk $2.5 mil. Either that or Walker has the worse agent in baseball history.

 

The numbers are there.

 

Please show me by what metric other than salary that Soriano is the better player.

 

.856 ops > .822 ops

31 hrs > 9 hrs

21 sbs > 1 sb

29 yrs. old > 32 yrs. old

124 games > 84 games

 

Yes, Soriano has sucked on the road this year, but he's been alright on the road in the past. Also, Soriano's speed generates runs. Can't just judge baseball by stats alone. Any intelligent observers knows that intangibles play a role. :D

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Nomar turned down a deal to play 2b with the Dodgers last year. I still think he'll believe he would make more as someone's shortstop than to settle for playing second for the Cubs.

 

I think he will be much more flexible this offseason than last. His fragility has become a career-threatening issue and even a bit of a joke. Shoot, the Kansas City Star in its baseball section in this Sunday's paper, compared Nomar to a whiney Faberge egg. Apparently, Nomar's latest back pain episode is not playing well with many folks, who think Nomar's reputation for being a crybaby in Boston is perhaps too true.

 

I'm just sayin'....I think he'd be wise to consider his options. It's hard to envision a contending team at least, willing to chance him at SS given what happened to the Cubs. 2B wouldn't be as hard on his body, I don't think anyone would dispute that.

[CubfaninCA]

Nomar turned down a deal to play 2b with the Dodgers last year. I still think he'll believe he would make more as someone's shortstop than to settle for playing second for the Cubs.

 

Nomar doesn't have as many options this offseason. He was hurt again and has had back problems since his return. Also, his fielding @ SS is pretty brutal. He should give the Cubs a discount.

[CubfaninCA]

Also, the market must be pretty stupid to give Sori $7.5 mil and Walk $2.5 mil. Either that or Walker has the worse agent in baseball history.

 

We should probably get Preston Wilson and Chan Ho Park too.

 

Park used to be good, and Walker should have hired Wilson's agent.

 

 

Cubs: "Holy Crap, Park used to be good? Sign him up!"

 

Not sure what you mean here, but for clarification... Park was good when he signed his deal.

[Exile on Waveland]

Also, the market must be pretty stupid to give Sori $7.5 mil and Walk $2.5 mil. Either that or Walker has the worse agent in baseball history.

 

We should probably get Preston Wilson and Chan Ho Park too.

 

Park used to be good, and Walker should have hired Wilson's agent.

 

 

Cubs: "Holy Crap, Park used to be good? Sign him up!"

 

Not sure what you mean here, but for clarification... Park was good when he signed his deal.

 

I thought it was pretty obvious: the Cubs, historically, have had a tendency to sign once-good players a little too late in their careers.

[biittner77]

Walker vs. Soriano- if those are the options- it really depends on what you want from that position. Neither are very good defensively. Soriano has more speed and power while Walker gets on base more and has decent power.

 

Supposing that the Cubs signed Furcal and started Murton in the OF somewhere other than CF. In that scenario they'd probably prefer a run producer, 5-6 hitter from that position.

 

SS Furcal

LF Murton

Lee

LH hitter acquired through trade or FA

Ramirez

Soriano

Patterson

Barrett

 

The problem is that Baker would probably have Soriano lead off or bat 2nd. In which case Walker is a much better option.

[Tim]

SS's who become too fragile and have too little range to play short anymore don't move to 2B -- they move to 3B. I think it is extremely unrealistic to expect a Nomar move to 2B at this point. A move to 3B, however, makes a lot of sense for him.

[UK1679666180]

SS's who become too fragile and have too little range to play short anymore don't move to 2B -- they move to 3B. I think it is extremely unrealistic to expect a Nomar move to 2B at this point. A move to 3B, however, makes a lot of sense for him.

 

Despite the decreased production of 3B in Baseball (minus this recent surge of Wright, Ensberg, Ramirez, Rolen), Nomar given his decline might not have the offense to become anything but an avg. 3B offensively while learning a new position..

[Tim]

SS's who become too fragile and have too little range to play short anymore don't move to 2B -- they move to 3B. I think it is extremely unrealistic to expect a Nomar move to 2B at this point. A move to 3B, however, makes a lot of sense for him.

 

Despite the decreased production of 3B in Baseball (minus this recent surge of Wright, Ensberg, Ramirez, Rolen), Nomar given his decline might not have the offense to become anything but an avg. 3B offensively while learning a new position..

True, but second basemen require just about the same range as shortstops. They also tend to get hurt more often than just about any other position players (minus catchers) due to the nature of turning two for a second baseman.

 

I just don't see it as a good option for Nomar. I think he either needs to move to third to stay healthy or stick with shortstop to provide above average offense.

[UK1679666180]

I can't see him shifting to 2B either, he'd provide the offense at a higher rate for a 2B, but the wear on his body would be the same at SS.

 

SS trying to prevent injuries would be the advice I'd give him at this stage. As well as a different off-season and in-season conditioning program. Age and wear and tear can't be the only reason why he has become so fragile.

[frostwyrm]

Walker at 2.5M plus Cedeno at 350K is a very solid middle infield at a rock bottom price. There's no reason to gamble on Nomar.

[SCCubbieFAN]

Walker at 2.5M plus Cedeno at 350K is a very solid middle infield at a rock bottom price. There's no reason to gamble on Nomar.

 

What frostwyrm said!

!

[neely crenshaw]

Walker at 2.5M plus Cedeno at 350K is a very solid middle infield at a rock bottom price. There's no reason to gamble on Nomar.

 

that means we must get a big time outfielder...we can not have a line up with cedeno,murton,hairston,cpatt and walker to go with lee and aram. and burnitz is definitely not any better.

 

the sad part is we probably have a better chance of seeing neifi-cedeno over walker-cedeno.