great excuse for baker not playing the 9/1 callups

[MembersOnlyJacket]

We were fine at first with karros

 

I can't agree with that at all. In 2003 Karros put up a .683 OPS vs. right-handed pitching, despite getting more than his fair share of at bats against the weaker righties in the league, and it was well known going into the season that Karros could only hit lefties. Choi should have gotten all the starts vs. righties while he was healthy enough to play.

 

Choi played himself out of the lineup.

 

Choi           AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
03/31 - 05/14  85  22  23   9   0   7  53  20  21   8  0.271  0.426  0.624  1.049
05/15 - 06/07  50   5  10   4   0   0  14   2   7  18  0.200  0.298  0.280  0.578
06/30 - 07/31  67   4  11   4   0   1  18   6   8  23  0.164  0.282  0.269  0.551

 

It's tough to get your timing coming back from an injury when you start 10 times over the course of 32 days and never start back to back games. Of course, if the tables were turned and Karros had been the man returning from injuries, I'm sure he would have been given the opportunity to get plenty of starts and get his groove back; dude.

[Illini Iceman]

talking is not this man's strong point.

 

Whether they'll get a chance to play is questionable. The Cubs aren't likely to audition kids, even if they're out of the wild-card race.

 

"September is tough to evaluate because you see guys coming up and nobody knows them," Baker said. "They usually kill it, just like that young man [Victor Diaz] who beat us in New York [last September]. You come up in September and nobody knows you. That's really the easiest time to play. Nobody has a book on you. Nobody has a scouting report. After that, it depends on how you adjust."

 

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

 

Once again, people putting words in Baker's mouth just to find more reasons to criticize him. Nowhere in his quote does he say anything about not playing the kids. That editorial comment is made by whoever wrote the article. Baker only said it is hard to EVALUATE them based on their performance in September. I agree with that - if Murton gets a lot of playing time in September and does well I still won't feel comfortable with counting on him as the starting LF in 2006.

[Fred Hornkohl]

It's tough to get your timing coming back from an injury when you start 10 times over the course of 32 days and never start back to back games. Of course, if the tables were turned and Karros had been the man returning from injuries, I'm sure he would have been given the opportunity to get plenty of starts and get his groove back; dude.

 

Choi tanked before the injury.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

It's tough to get your timing coming back from an injury when you start 10 times over the course of 32 days and never start back to back games. Of course, if the tables were turned and Karros had been the man returning from injuries, I'm sure he would have been given the opportunity to get plenty of starts and get his groove back; dude.

 

Choi tanked before the injury.

 

I think the vast majority of players in the game go through a stretch where they hit .200/minimal run production over 50 ab during the course of a 600 ab, 162 game season.

[Fred Hornkohl]

It's tough to get your timing coming back from an injury when you start 10 times over the course of 32 days and never start back to back games. Of course, if the tables were turned and Karros had been the man returning from injuries, I'm sure he would have been given the opportunity to get plenty of starts and get his groove back; dude.

 

Choi tanked before the injury.

 

I think the vast majority of players in the game go through a stretch where they hit .200/minimal run production over 50 ab during the course of a 600 ab, 162 game season.

 

Indeed.

 

By they way... has Choi extracated himself from that tank yet ??

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's tough to get your timing coming back from an injury when you start 10 times over the course of 32 days and never start back to back games. Of course, if the tables were turned and Karros had been the man returning from injuries, I'm sure he would have been given the opportunity to get plenty of starts and get his groove back; dude.

 

Choi tanked before the injury.

 

I think the vast majority of players in the game go through a stretch where they hit .200/minimal run production over 50 ab during the course of a 600 ab, 162 game season.

 

Indeed.

 

By they way... has Choi extracated himself from that tank yet ??

 

.809 OPS this year, still far better than Eric Karros against RH.

[Fred Hornkohl]

It's tough to get your timing coming back from an injury when you start 10 times over the course of 32 days and never start back to back games. Of course, if the tables were turned and Karros had been the man returning from injuries, I'm sure he would have been given the opportunity to get plenty of starts and get his groove back; dude.

 

Choi tanked before the injury.

 

I think the vast majority of players in the game go through a stretch where they hit .200/minimal run production over 50 ab during the course of a 600 ab, 162 game season.

 

Indeed.

 

By they way... has Choi extracated himself from that tank yet ??

 

.809 OPS this year, still far better than Eric Karros against RH.

 

wow. all-star material.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's tough to get your timing coming back from an injury when you start 10 times over the course of 32 days and never start back to back games. Of course, if the tables were turned and Karros had been the man returning from injuries, I'm sure he would have been given the opportunity to get plenty of starts and get his groove back; dude.

 

Choi tanked before the injury.

 

I think the vast majority of players in the game go through a stretch where they hit .200/minimal run production over 50 ab during the course of a 600 ab, 162 game season.

 

Indeed.

 

By they way... has Choi extracated himself from that tank yet ??

 

.809 OPS this year, still far better than Eric Karros against RH.

 

wow. all-star material.

 

Again, Choi was always a better option against righties than Karros, but Dusty wouldn't give him consistent time against them after the injury. Then they went and got Simon and there was no problem giving him starts v. RHP.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Again, Choi was always a better option against righties than Karros, but Dusty wouldn't give him consistent time against them after the injury. Then they went and got Simon and there was no problem giving him starts v. RHP.

 

               AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Simon         103  13  29   3   0   6  50  21   4   7  0.282  0.318  0.485  0.804
Karros        336  37  96  16   1  12 150  40  28  46  0.286  0.340  0.446  0.786
Choi          202  31  44  17   0   8  85  28  36  49  0.218  0.350  0.421  0.771

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Again, Choi was always a better option against righties than Karros, but Dusty wouldn't give him consistent time against them after the injury. Then they went and got Simon and there was no problem giving him starts v. RHP.

 

               AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Simon         103  13  29   3   0   6  50  21   4   7  0.282  0.318  0.485  0.804
Karros        336  37  96  16   1  12 150  40  28  46  0.286  0.340  0.446  0.786
Choi          202  31  44  17   0   8  85  28  36  49  0.218  0.350  0.421  0.771

 

Choi v. RHP: .232/.349/.449/.798

Karros v. RHP: .246/.286/.397/.683

[abuck1220]

 

 

 

Really?, Dusty did play Choi unitl he got hurt at a 80/20 rule. Also, Dusty gave the job to Hill in spring training and he lost it. I think he batted like .110 or something. Neither one of these guys have proved to be even everyday players. I think Dusty has been decent at weeding out the good and the bad. Look everyone wants to see Murton play more but he has only done well against Left handers. He will get his chance and we will see what he is made of soon. The alternative is not always better it is just unknown. I am sure since we are rapidly losing any wild card hopes Murton and others will play more. I think Dusty's point, while badly worded, makes sense. You cannot just take one month when no one has seen a rookie and project his HOF career for a month of ABs.

 

far, far, far from being true. you don't hit .400 for an extended period of time only hitting lefties.

 

you've been listening to dusty's self-serving garbage too much. it's just like how people say pujols is going to win a gold glove just because larussa said it a bunch.

[waffle]

I also think the fans are to blame. Yeah, the prospects haven't been the best but we are so eager to have a player come up and do well we jump all over the guy when he doesn't. Pie will be a good example of this and when he turns out to be a below Pierre 265/300 kind of player we will once again crucify him as a lot of fans do CPatt. The over hype and hope will continue as the Cubs concentrate on drafting pitchers and we search for the next postion player savior.

 

exactly how is it the fans fault?

 

Do other teams fans do something different that allow their prospects to flourish? Is it their accents? Something in the water? Do they not go to the games thus minimizing the likelihood of bringing career ending embarassment?

 

Are we that much worse than Philly fans (note, where I currently reside)? The are ahead in the wild card and consistently CRUCIFY (on the air, in print, in person) their players, players that are on a winning team I might add.

 

If anything, I think we expect TOO LITTLE from our players. you've gone through 3 or more levels of the minors, are getting paid $$$$ to play sports and have been groomed for this moment probably since you were 5 years old. PRODUCE.

 

SHeesh

[Fred Hornkohl]

Again, Choi was always a better option against righties than Karros, but Dusty wouldn't give him consistent time against them after the injury. Then they went and got Simon and there was no problem giving him starts v. RHP.

 

               AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Simon         103  13  29   3   0   6  50  21   4   7  0.282  0.318  0.485  0.804
Karros        336  37  96  16   1  12 150  40  28  46  0.286  0.340  0.446  0.786
Choi          202  31  44  17   0   8  85  28  36  49  0.218  0.350  0.421  0.771

 

Choi v. RHP: .232/.349/.449/.798

Karros v. RHP: .246/.286/.397/.683

 

Do you really want to build a team with players who are "a better option against righites" ? Choi played himself out of the lineup. He's failed to become a starter on 3 different teams now in 3 years. Maybe he turns out to be the proverbial "late bloomer", and finally puts it all together, but I wouldn't give you odds on it.

[goonys evil twin]

Do you really want to build a team with players who are "a better option against righites" ?

 

Would you really rather build a team around which veteran is a worse option against righties?

[CuseCubFan69]

I also think the fans are to blame. Yeah, the prospects haven't been the best but we are so eager to have a player come up and do well we jump all over the guy when he doesn't. Pie will be a good example of this and when he turns out to be a below Pierre 265/300 kind of player we will once again crucify him as a lot of fans do CPatt. The over hype and hope will continue as the Cubs concentrate on drafting pitchers and we search for the next postion player savior.

 

exactly how is it the fans fault?

 

Do other teams fans do something different that allow their prospects to flourish? Is it their accents? Something in the water? Do they not go to the games thus minimizing the likelihood of bringing career ending embarassment?

 

Are we that much worse than Philly fans (note, where I currently reside)? The are ahead in the wild card and consistently CRUCIFY (on the air, in print, in person) their players, players that are on a winning team I might add.

 

If anything, I think we expect TOO LITTLE from our players. you've gone through 3 or more levels of the minors, are getting paid $$$$ to play sports and have been groomed for this moment probably since you were 5 years old. PRODUCE.

 

 

 

SHeesh

 

My point is that Cub postion players, especially since they are few and far between, have an added pressure to succeed and we as Cubs fans want to do so. But, when they struggle we tend to jump on them a lot more than the normal player since we've been waiting X amount of years for them to be up on the Cubs.

 

I want them to produce also.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Do you really want to build a team with players who are "a better option against righites" ?

 

Would you really rather build a team around which veteran is a worse option against righties?

 

You may not have noticed, but Karros and Simon got the same invitation to leave that Choi got.

[wastra]

I also think the fans are to blame. Yeah, the prospects haven't been the best but we are so eager to have a player come up and do well we jump all over the guy when he doesn't. Pie will be a good example of this and when he turns out to be a below Pierre 265/300 kind of player we will once again crucify him as a lot of fans do CPatt. The over hype and hope will continue as the Cubs concentrate on drafting pitchers and we search for the next postion player savior.

 

exactly how is it the fans fault?

 

Do other teams fans do something different that allow their prospects to flourish? Is it their accents? Something in the water? Do they not go to the games thus minimizing the likelihood of bringing career ending embarassment?

 

Are we that much worse than Philly fans (note, where I currently reside)? The are ahead in the wild card and consistently CRUCIFY (on the air, in print, in person) their players, players that are on a winning team I might add.

 

If anything, I think we expect TOO LITTLE from our players. you've gone through 3 or more levels of the minors, are getting paid $$$$ to play sports and have been groomed for this moment probably since you were 5 years old. PRODUCE.

 

 

 

SHeesh

 

My point is that Cub postion players, especially since they are few and far between, have an added pressure to succeed and we as Cubs fans want to do so. But, when they struggle we tend to jump on them a lot more than the normal player since we've been waiting X amount of years for them to be up on the Cubs.

 

I want them to produce also.

 

 

Like whom? Patterson was given a wide range of lattitude by fans for about 4 years. They started booing him this year because he's worse now than he was 2 years ago. Fans loved Choi, they cheered Murton, I haven't heard any Cedeno boos either. IIRC, they even cheered Dubois up to the day he was traded.

 

 

Fans at Chicago are probably MORE forgiving than any place else I've ever visited. This year's fans are less forgiving than in the past, but no less so than any other teams' fans. Go to Cincy and hear them boo the bullpen sometime. Go to the Yankees and hear them boo everyone on the team when they're losing (Except Jeter and Tino).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Do you really want to build a team with players who are "a better option against righites" ?

 

Would you really rather build a team around which veteran is a worse option against righties?

 

You may not have noticed, but Karros and Simon got the same invitation to leave that Choi got.

 

I'm not talking about building a team around him, I'm talking about Baker's refusal to play young players, even when it's in the best short-term, as well as long-term, interests of the franchise. I'd rather have seen Choi play against RHP because we would have performed better and won more games, and at the same time been able to evaluate more how he fit into our long term plans.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Do you really want to build a team with players who are "a better option against righites" ?

 

Would you really rather build a team around which veteran is a worse option against righties?

 

You may not have noticed, but Karros and Simon got the same invitation to leave that Choi got.

 

I'm not talking about building a team around him, I'm talking about Baker's refusal to play young players, even when it's in the best short-term, as well as long-term, interests of the franchise. I'd rather have seen Choi play against RHP because we would have performed better and won more games, and at the same time been able to evaluate more how he fit into our long term plans.

 

Who do you think Choi was facing when he put up these numbers ??

 

Choi           AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS

05/15 - 06/07  50   5  10   4   0   0  14   2   7  18  0.200  0.298  0.280  0.578
06/30 - 07/31  67   4  11   4   0   1  18   6   8  23  0.164  0.282  0.269  0.551

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Do you really want to build a team with players who are "a better option against righites" ?

 

Would you really rather build a team around which veteran is a worse option against righties?

 

You may not have noticed, but Karros and Simon got the same invitation to leave that Choi got.

 

I'm not talking about building a team around him, I'm talking about Baker's refusal to play young players, even when it's in the best short-term, as well as long-term, interests of the franchise. I'd rather have seen Choi play against RHP because we would have performed better and won more games, and at the same time been able to evaluate more how he fit into our long term plans.

 

Who do you think Choi was facing when he put up these numbers ??

 

Choi           AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS

05/15 - 06/07  50   5  10   4   0   0  14   2   7  18  0.200  0.298  0.280  0.578
06/30 - 07/31  67   4  11   4   0   1  18   6   8  23  0.164  0.282  0.269  0.551

 

How often was he playing? Tim outlined a while back that Choi would get a start, perform well, then sit 2 games, get 2 hits, then sit, and eventually he stopped producing. He had no consistent PT.

[abuck1220]

baker can't say enough lately about how much he doesn't like youngsters...

 

The Cubs won't get a chance to see Felix Pie in September because of his season-ending ankle injury, but Baker isn't too disappointed.

 

"Generally speaking, if a guy does well in the minor leagues, he has a better chance of doing well in the major leagues, but sometimes it doesn't work like that," he said.

 

also, i'm guessing cedeno's huge clutch hit today didn't count because the marlins didn't have 'a book' on him yet. if they did, they would have undoubtedly retired him.

[ltb]

baker can't say enough lately about how much he doesn't like youngsters...

 

The Cubs won't get a chance to see Felix Pie in September because of his season-ending ankle injury, but Baker isn't too disappointed.

 

"Generally speaking, if a guy does well in the minor leagues, he has a better chance of doing well in the major leagues, but sometimes it doesn't work like that," he said.

 

also, i'm guessing cedeno's huge clutch hit today didn't count because the marlins didn't have 'a book' on him yet. if they did, they would have undoubtedly retired him.

 

vomit.

 

this is getting ridiculous.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm so sick of Baker. he is talking like he is guaranteed a job for next year which is scary. I will even pay for his coach class ticket to get him back to SF if Hendry fires him.

[abuck1220]

more good stuff. sounds like he's getting it pretty good from the media about playing the kids...

 

Cedeno sat again as Perez started, and his only start during the Dodgers series will be Tuesday against right-hander Brad Penny. Cedeno is hitting .324 against right-handers and .214 against left-handers.

 

"I just can't take the ball and glove out of Neifi's hands," Baker argued. "It's not fair to just sit him down for what he's done for us. So I've got to find a way, at least for a while, for both of them to play."

 

yeah, his sub-.300 obp has been HUGE for the cubs this year. thank the heavens he's been around to play below average baseball...where would we be w/o st. neifi??

 

Murton will rejoin the club from Triple-A Iowa on Tuesday, but Baker would not say how much playing time he'd get in left field.

 

"Depends on how [much time] I can get Corey [Patterson] and [Jerry] Hairston—he's playing pretty good," Baker said. "You've still got to win games too.

 

he continues to use this 'gotta win games' line as if playing the youngsters guarantees a loss and playing the veterans guarantees a win. here's the thing...you've been playing the vets all year, and you're fighting w/ cincinnati for fifth place. you haven't won all year with these scrubs, why do you think it's gonna happen now?

 

and doesn't this contradict his statements about how september call ups will perform better than normal because no one has a book on them? so if that's the case, and you want to win games...shouldn't they play?

 

Baker sparred with the media before Monday's game and clearly is tired of discussing the issue of whether to evaluate young talent in September.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Abuck, dude--Dusty is SOOO getting fired. Don't worry. It may not happen until the offseason, but this nitwit is gone. And I will get SOOO drunk that day, as if I needed an excuse with this team this year.

 

No more Mulletsworth!!! (small victories)