8/21 Cubs (Maddux) @ Rockies (Francis), 2:05 pm WGN

Derwood · August 21, 2005

I would seriously rather have Maddux batting 2nd than Neifi.

It's unbelievable how low the HR totals are for those Colorado hitters. Remember the good old days of Bichette/Walker/Galaragga/Castilla? Now the only Bichette doing anything is Dante Jr. at the LLWS!

TrueBlueCubFan · August 21, 2005

For the love of...

Stop taking Walker out of the lineup for Neifi!

Walker is a very good hitter, but very below avg. defensively. Neifi is a defensive upgrade over Walker. The problem here is batting Neifi 2nd.

This year, Walker has been better defensively at second base. Walker is a better hitter against LH than Neifi, this year, the last three years, etc. There's no justification for him to be out there besides the inane L/R argument.

Walker is a defensive hack! People on this board tend to favor the offensive skill over the defensive one. Maybe they are playing too much fantasy baseball. Defense is very important. I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs acquire some more defensive skilled players in 06, especially in the infield. Imagine a MI of Hudson(Tor) & A.Gonzo(Fl)! IIRC, both are FA's

Transmogrified Tiger · August 21, 2005

For the love of...

Stop taking Walker out of the lineup for Neifi!

Walker is a very good hitter, but very below avg. defensively. Neifi is a defensive upgrade over Walker. The problem here is batting Neifi 2nd.

This year, Walker has been better defensively at second base. Walker is a better hitter against LH than Neifi, this year, the last three years, etc. There's no justification for him to be out there besides the inane L/R argument.

Walker is a defensive hack! People on this board tend to favor the offensive skill over the defensive one. Maybe they are playing too much fantasy baseball. Defense is very important. I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs acquire some more defensive skilled players in 06, especially in the infield. Imagine a MI of Hudson(Tor) & A.Gonzo(Fl)! IIRC, both are FA's

Walker at 2B in 2005

94 Rate, 11 runs above Replacement level

Neifi at 2B in 2005

86 Rate, 1 run above replacement level.

The fantasy baseball comment is uncalled for. I hate, and am horrible at fantasy baseball, not that it matters.

EDIT: Florida's Alex Gonzalez is around average defensively. Hudson on the other hand is amazing defensively, but is not a free agent until after the 2008 season.

Edited August 21, 2005 by Transmogrified Tiger

AAApittsburgh · August 21, 2005

For the love of...

Stop taking Walker out of the lineup for Neifi!

Walker is a very good hitter, but very below avg. defensively. Neifi is a defensive upgrade over Walker. The problem here is batting Neifi 2nd.

This year, Walker has been better defensively at second base. Walker is a better hitter against LH than Neifi, this year, the last three years, etc. There's no justification for him to be out there besides the inane L/R argument.

Walker is a defensive hack! People on this board tend to favor the offensive skill over the defensive one. Maybe they are playing too much fantasy baseball. Defense is very important. I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs acquire some more defensive skilled players in 06, especially in the infield. Imagine a MI of Hudson(Tor) & A.Gonzo(Fl)! IIRC, both are FA's

Awesome. Then the Cubs will still struggle to score runs, but it won't matter because defense will be great.

Flames24Rulz · August 21, 2005

ugh, Neifi 2nd? I also would've liked to see Corey get the day off with Lawton in LF and Hairston in CF.

Omar · August 21, 2005

Atleast Nomar is in it this time..

But if Baker doesnt want to bat against lefties, why go with Neifi? Why not Hairston at 2B??

Transmogrified Tiger · August 21, 2005

Atleast Nomar is in it this time..

But if Baker doesnt want to bat against lefties, why go with Neifi? Why not Hairston at 2B??

Because then he's forced to play Lawton or Hollandsworth in LF, who are awful against LH.

TrueBlueCubFan · August 21, 2005

For the love of...

Stop taking Walker out of the lineup for Neifi!

Walker is a very good hitter, but very below avg. defensively. Neifi is a defensive upgrade over Walker. The problem here is batting Neifi 2nd.

This year, Walker has been better defensively at second base. Walker is a better hitter against LH than Neifi, this year, the last three years, etc. There's no justification for him to be out there besides the inane L/R argument.

Walker is a defensive hack! People on this board tend to favor the offensive skill over the defensive one. Maybe they are playing too much fantasy baseball. Defense is very important. I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs acquire some more defensive skilled players in 06, especially in the infield. Imagine a MI of Hudson(Tor) & A.Gonzo(Fl)! IIRC, both are FA's

Walker at 2B in 2005

94 Rate, 11 runs above Replacement level

Neifi at 2B in 2005

86 Rate, 1 run above replacement level.

The fantasy baseball comment is uncalled for. I hate, and am horrible at fantasy baseball, not that it matters.

I didn't say you play too much fantasy baseball. I said maybe people on this board play to much fantasy baseball. That was meant as a generalization, not to personally single you or anyone out.

Your comment about Walker has been better defensively @ 2nd LY over Neifi is accurate but not entirely fair. It's a large sample size (Walker) compared to a small sample size (Neifi).

Neifi 14 GS, 2 E, .967 FPCT.

Walker 67 GS, 4 E, .987 FPCT

Also Neifi natural position is SS & Walker's is 2nd. I bet you would see a larger desparity in fielding if Walker ever played SS, which probably will never happen, b/c everyone knows he is a liability defensively.

Edited August 21, 2005 by TrueBlueCubFan

Ram1380 · August 21, 2005

I thought the reasoning behind Hairston not being in the lineup sooner, while Hollandsworth was stinking it up earlier this season was "Leftfield was harder to play then center". Which was ridiculous all things considered.

It's fine for him to play it in Coors now though.

Transmogrified Tiger · August 21, 2005

For the love of...

Stop taking Walker out of the lineup for Neifi!

Walker is a very good hitter, but very below avg. defensively. Neifi is a defensive upgrade over Walker. The problem here is batting Neifi 2nd.

This year, Walker has been better defensively at second base. Walker is a better hitter against LH than Neifi, this year, the last three years, etc. There's no justification for him to be out there besides the inane L/R argument.

Walker is a defensive hack! People on this board tend to favor the offensive skill over the defensive one. Maybe they are playing too much fantasy baseball. Defense is very important. I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs acquire some more defensive skilled players in 06, especially in the infield. Imagine a MI of Hudson(Tor) & A.Gonzo(Fl)! IIRC, both are FA's

Walker at 2B in 2005

94 Rate, 11 runs above Replacement level

Neifi at 2B in 2005

86 Rate, 1 run above replacement level.

The fantasy baseball comment is uncalled for. I hate, and am horrible at fantasy baseball, not that it matters.

I didn't say you play too much fantasy baseball. I said maybe people on this board play to much fantasy baseball. That was meant as a generalization, not to personally single you or anyone out.

Your comment about Walker has been better defensively @ 2nd LY over Neifi is accurate but not entirely fair. It's a large sample size (Walker) compared to a small sample size (Neifi).
Neifi 14 GS, 2 E, .967 FPCT.
Walker 67 GS, 4 E, .987 FPCT

Also Neifi natural position is SS & Walker's is 2nd. I bet you would see a larger desparity in fielding if Walker ever played SS, which probably will never happen, b/c everyone knows he is a liability defensively.

But we're not talking about either of them playing SS. The fact is that Walker has been a better 2B in every aspect of the game this year, and in most aspects his entire career.

I understand the Fantasy baseball comment was a generalization. An unnecessary and inflammatory one at that.

TrueBlueCubFan · August 21, 2005

For the love of...

Stop taking Walker out of the lineup for Neifi!

Walker is a very good hitter, but very below avg. defensively. Neifi is a defensive upgrade over Walker. The problem here is batting Neifi 2nd.

This year, Walker has been better defensively at second base. Walker is a better hitter against LH than Neifi, this year, the last three years, etc. There's no justification for him to be out there besides the inane L/R argument.

Walker is a defensive hack! People on this board tend to favor the offensive skill over the defensive one. Maybe they are playing too much fantasy baseball. Defense is very important. I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs acquire some more defensive skilled players in 06, especially in the infield. Imagine a MI of Hudson(Tor) & A.Gonzo(Fl)! IIRC, both are FA's
Awesome. Then the Cubs will still struggle to score runs, but it won't matter because defense will be great.

Not if they upgrade @ one of the corner OF spots. Giles,Dunn,Kearns or Huff!

Outshined_One · August 21, 2005

I thought the reasoning behind Hairston not being in the lineup sooner, while Hollandsworth was stinking it up earlier this season was "Leftfield was harder to play then center". Which was ridiculous all things considered.

It's fine for him to play it in Coors now though.

Attempting to apply rationality to Dusty Baker's line of reasoning will only result in numerous contradictions and headaches.

Frankly, I've given up thinking that anything out of that man's mouth is the truth. He's lied and made plenty of stuff up before, so why expect him to be honest to fans and the media?

AAApittsburgh · August 21, 2005

Not if they upgrade @ one of the corner OF spots. Giles,Dunn,Kearns or Huff!

But why does there have to be 2 automatic outs in the lineup? I never understood this. Over the course of a full season, the offense that Walker/Nomar provide more than makes up for any defensive problem. They simple create more runs, so i don't see the point.

TrueBlueCubFan · August 21, 2005

For the love of...

Stop taking Walker out of the lineup for Neifi!

Walker is a very good hitter, but very below avg. defensively. Neifi is a defensive upgrade over Walker. The problem here is batting Neifi 2nd.

This year, Walker has been better defensively at second base. Walker is a better hitter against LH than Neifi, this year, the last three years, etc. There's no justification for him to be out there besides the inane L/R argument.

Walker is a defensive hack! People on this board tend to favor the offensive skill over the defensive one. Maybe they are playing too much fantasy baseball. Defense is very important. I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs acquire some more defensive skilled players in 06, especially in the infield. Imagine a MI of Hudson(Tor) & A.Gonzo(Fl)! IIRC, both are FA's

Walker at 2B in 2005

94 Rate, 11 runs above Replacement level

Neifi at 2B in 2005

86 Rate, 1 run above replacement level.

The fantasy baseball comment is uncalled for. I hate, and am horrible at fantasy baseball, not that it matters.

I didn't say you play too much fantasy baseball. I said maybe people on this board play to much fantasy baseball. That was meant as a generalization, not to personally single you or anyone out.

Your comment about Walker has been better defensively @ 2nd LY over Neifi is accurate but not entirely fair. It's a large sample size (Walker) compared to a small sample size (Neifi).
Neifi 14 GS, 2 E, .967 FPCT.
Walker 67 GS, 4 E, .987 FPCT

Also Neifi natural position is SS & Walker's is 2nd. I bet you would see a larger desparity in fielding if Walker ever played SS, which probably will never happen, b/c everyone knows he is a liability defensively.

But we're not talking about either of them playing SS. The fact is that Walker has been a better 2B in every aspect of the game this year, and in most aspects his entire career.

I understand the Fantasy baseball comment was a generalization. An unnecessary and inflammatory one at that.

Oh well, I guess you don't understand the difference between a sm.. & lg. sample size.

How is the fantasy baseball comment inflammatory? People don't watch baseball to root for players on their fantasy team who only generate offensive stats, not defensive ones? This will tend a fan to overanalyze the offensive stat over the defensive. Not inflammatory, probably fact!

frostwyrm · August 21, 2005

Neifi's defense relative to Walker's is not nearly enough to compensate for the lost offense. Neifi is a very good defender but that "Gold Glove" talk is way overblown. He's good but not that good. This is 2B we're talking about anyway, not SS.

TrueBlueCubFan · August 21, 2005

Not if they upgrade @ one of the corner OF spots. Giles,Dunn,Kearns or Huff!
But why does there have to be 2 automatic outs in the lineup? I never understood this. Over the course of a full season, the offense that Walker/Nomar provide more than makes up for any defensive problem. They simple create more runs, so i don't see the point.

I would definately take a healthy Nomar over AGonzo(Fl). However, I'd rather have Hudson than Walker. He's the better overall 2nd baseman.

Transmogrified Tiger · August 21, 2005

I didn't say you play too much fantasy baseball. I said maybe people on this board play to much fantasy baseball. That was meant as a generalization, not to personally single you or anyone out.

Your comment about Walker has been better defensively @ 2nd LY over Neifi is accurate but not entirely fair. It's a large sample size (Walker) compared to a small sample size (Neifi).
Neifi 14 GS, 2 E, .967 FPCT.
Walker 67 GS, 4 E, .987 FPCT

Also Neifi natural position is SS & Walker's is 2nd. I bet you would see a larger desparity in fielding if Walker ever played SS, which probably will never happen, b/c everyone knows he is a liability defensively.

But we're not talking about either of them playing SS. The fact is that Walker has been a better 2B in every aspect of the game this year, and in most aspects his entire career.

I understand the Fantasy baseball comment was a generalization. An unnecessary and inflammatory one at that.

Oh well, I guess you don't understand the difference between a sm.. & lg. sample size.
How is the fantasy baseball comment inflammatory? People don't watch baseball to root for players on their fantasy team who only generate offensive stats, not defensive ones? This will tend a fan to overanalyze the offensive stat over the defensive. Not inflammatory, probably fact!

I understand sample sizes. Over their careers, Neifi has been a better defender at 2B. Over their careers, Neifi has been 10 runs above average defensively while Walker is 48 runs below average. Offensively, Neifi is 218 runs below average, while Walker is 9 runs above average. That's what everyone is talking about when they say that the offensive difference makes up for a lack of defense.

barrettismyidol · August 21, 2005

You have to be joking me. Great, Nomar's in, Neifi's out...oh wait.. let's sit Todd Walker for Neifi. He needs his at-bats.

What a joke for a lineup, what a joke for a manager.

Marco4 · August 21, 2005

Neifi's defense relative to Walker's is not nearly enough to compensate for the lost offense. Neifi is a very good defender but that "Gold Glove" talk is way overblown. He's good but not that good. This is 2B we're talking about anyway, not SS.

Walker is hitting .322 with a .375 OBP in August, Perez is hitting .326 with a .383 OBP.

Just throwing that out there.

Oh, and Neifi's had 16 fewer ABs

TrueBlueCubFan · August 21, 2005

I didn't say you play too much fantasy baseball. I said maybe people on this board play to much fantasy baseball. That was meant as a generalization, not to personally single you or anyone out.

Your comment about Walker has been better defensively @ 2nd LY over Neifi is accurate but not entirely fair. It's a large sample size (Walker) compared to a small sample size (Neifi).
Neifi 14 GS, 2 E, .967 FPCT.
Walker 67 GS, 4 E, .987 FPCT

Also Neifi natural position is SS & Walker's is 2nd. I bet you would see a larger desparity in fielding if Walker ever played SS, which probably will never happen, b/c everyone knows he is a liability defensively.

But we're not talking about either of them playing SS. The fact is that Walker has been a better 2B in every aspect of the game this year, and in most aspects his entire career.

I understand the Fantasy baseball comment was a generalization. An unnecessary and inflammatory one at that.

Oh well, I guess you don't understand the difference between a sm.. & lg. sample size.
How is the fantasy baseball comment inflammatory? People don't watch baseball to root for players on their fantasy team who only generate offensive stats, not defensive ones? This will tend a fan to overanalyze the offensive stat over the defensive. Not inflammatory, probably fact!

I understand sample sizes. Over their careers, Neifi has been a better defender at 2B. Over their careers, Neifi has been 10 runs above average defensively while Walker is 48 runs below average. Offensively, Neifi is 218 runs below average, while Walker is 9 runs above average. That's what everyone is talking about when they say that the offensive difference makes up for a lack of defense.

Maybe I'm just frustrated that Walker's tackling job of the baseball in the the 2nd inning of last nights game may have cost the Cubs the game. However, Corey did help him out by consistently looking lost @ the plate.

frostwyrm · August 21, 2005

Neifi's defense relative to Walker's is not nearly enough to compensate for the lost offense. Neifi is a very good defender but that "Gold Glove" talk is way overblown. He's good but not that good. This is 2B we're talking about anyway, not SS.

Walker is hitting .322 with a .375 OBP in August, Perez is hitting .326 with a .383 OBP.

Just throwing that out there.

Oh, and Neifi's had 16 fewer ABs

Neifi's hot streaks are so unreliable that I'm inclined not to rely on Neifi at all.

Marco4 · August 21, 2005

Neifi's defense relative to Walker's is not nearly enough to compensate for the lost offense. Neifi is a very good defender but that "Gold Glove" talk is way overblown. He's good but not that good. This is 2B we're talking about anyway, not SS.

Walker is hitting .322 with a .375 OBP in August, Perez is hitting .326 with a .383 OBP.

Just throwing that out there.

Oh, and Neifi's had 16 fewer ABs

Neifi's hot streaks are so unreliable that I'm inclined not to rely on Neifi at all.

No, I see that, I'm not defending Neifi especially - I go through that same stomach-plunge as everyone when he's at the plate, just throwing in a stat that could be used to defend him, or at least his selection of late.

TrueBlueCubFan · August 21, 2005

Neifi's defense relative to Walker's is not nearly enough to compensate for the lost offense. Neifi is a very good defender but that "Gold Glove" talk is way overblown. He's good but not that good. This is 2B we're talking about anyway, not SS.

Walker is hitting .322 with a .375 OBP in August, Perez is hitting .326 with a .383 OBP.

Just throwing that out there.

Oh, and Neifi's had 16 fewer ABs

Neifi's hot streaks are so unreliable that I'm inclined not to rely on Neifi at all.

No, I see that, I'm not defending Neifi especially - I go through that same stomach-plunge as everyone when he's at the plate, just throwing in a stat that could be used to defend him, or at least his selection of late.

I'm not a Neifi appologist either, but he isn't nearly as bad as many people here make him out to be, especially since he has been in a Cubs uniform, which is all that should matter if you are sincerly a Cubs fan.

YearofDaCubs · August 21, 2005

Neifi's defense relative to Walker's is not nearly enough to compensate for the lost offense. Neifi is a very good defender but that "Gold Glove" talk is way overblown. He's good but not that good. This is 2B we're talking about anyway, not SS.

Walker is hitting .322 with a .375 OBP in August, Perez is hitting .326 with a .383 OBP.

Just throwing that out there.

Oh, and Neifi's had 16 fewer ABs

Neifi's hot streaks are so unreliable that I'm inclined not to rely on Neifi at all.

No, I see that, I'm not defending Neifi especially - I go through that same stomach-plunge as everyone when he's at the plate, just throwing in a stat that could be used to defend him, or at least his selection of late.
I'm not a Neifi appologist either, but he isn't nearly as bad as many people here make him out to be, especially since he has been in a Cubs uniform, which is all that should matter if you are sincerly a Cubs fan.

Yeah right, so what you are saying is if we are true Cubs fans we can't criticize decisions the manager or organization makes? Please, that's ridiculous.

Ram1380 · August 21, 2005

Neifi's defense relative to Walker's is not nearly enough to compensate for the lost offense. Neifi is a very good defender but that "Gold Glove" talk is way overblown. He's good but not that good. This is 2B we're talking about anyway, not SS.

Walker is hitting .322 with a .375 OBP in August, Perez is hitting .326 with a .383 OBP.

Just throwing that out there.

Oh, and Neifi's had 16 fewer ABs

Neifi's hot streaks are so unreliable that I'm inclined not to rely on Neifi at all.

No, I see that, I'm not defending Neifi especially - I go through that same stomach-plunge as everyone when he's at the plate, just throwing in a stat that could be used to defend him, or at least his selection of late.
I'm not a Neifi appologist either, but he isn't nearly as bad as many people here make him out to be, especially since he has been in a Cubs uniform, which is all that should matter if you are sincerly a Cubs fan.

Yes he is.

8/21 Cubs (Maddux) @ Rockies (Francis), 2:05 pm WGN

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