Best All Around Player

[1wizard]

MLB has a poll for the best All Around player. I find it comical that ARod does not make the list but Jeter and Carlos Beltran do. The other candidates are Vlad, Miguel Tejada, Ivan Rodriguez, and Chipper Jones.

I wonder how IR and Chipper get selected in front of more deserving candidates like A. Jones (this year, great defense with offense this year), Pujols (has been versatile and has 11 SB this season), D. Lee (great athlete and defense at first, and great offense this year), and Ichiro.

 

I consider Vlad the best All Around player in baseball, then Tejeda, Pujols, and Lee.

 

I guess MLB thinks that a 1st basemen cannot be the best all around. Moreover, they must think that Jeter be added to every list. :roll:

But it is hard to not consider both Albert and Lee considering their offensive numbers, defense, and SB numbers.

[rawaction]

What about Barry Bonds? Bonds is the best player, followed by Arod and Pujols in whatever order you choose. I think Derrek Lee has to put up more than 1 great season to be considered one of the best. This year, he's a good leap above Pujols though.

[1wizard]

What about Barry Bonds? Bonds is the best player, followed by Arod and Pujols in whatever order you choose. I think Derrek Lee has to put up more than 1 great season to be considered one of the best. This year, he's a good leap above Pujols though.

 

I disagree, agree, disagree. First of all, Bonds is not a good defensive player anymore; his arm is average at best. He is not a base stealing threat anymore either. I agree that D. Lee needs to prove this year is not an anomaly, but he still gets my vote over those previously mentioned as best All Around player. Lee is a great defender and athlete. Yet, I don't think he is a good leap above Pujols now. Maybe a month ago you could say that but now AP is within striking distance of the BA title and hr.

 

With all that said, AP and Lee are 2 of the top 5 best All Around Players in baseball this year.

[Warpticon]

Beltran deserves to be on the list. It is absurd not to have A-Rod, who is great defensively at two positions, one of the top 5-7 hitters in the game for average and for power, and fast enough and skilled enough to be an very good base stealer at the same time. I have a hard time putting anybody above him, really, yet he's not on the list. Ridiculous.

[rawaction]

I never understood the idea of "best all-around". What does that mean? Is that the person who can do the most things near the best in the league? Wouldn't that mean Jose Macias (who has decent speed, can play 5 positions about average, switch hits, can bunt, has occassional power) is better all-around than Jim Thome, who can only hit for power and walk.

[XZero771679666304]

Jeter on the list is ridiculous. He isn't top 10 offensively, and not even a top 10 defensive SS.

[SirPlopigus]

I never understood the idea of "best all-around". What does that mean? Is that the person who can do the most things near the best in the league? Wouldn't that mean Jose Macias (who has decent speed, can play 5 positions about average, switch hits, can bunt, has occassional power) is better all-around than Jim Thome, who can only hit for power and walk.

For me, being an all-around player means having the five tools of baseball: speed, strong arm, hitting for average, hitting for power, and fielding. So that would be guys like Bonds in his prime, Larry Walker in his prime, Bobby Abreu, Carlos Beltran...

[1wizard]

rawaction wrote:

I never understood the idea of "best all-around". What does that mean? Is that the person who can do the most things near the best in the league? Wouldn't that mean Jose Macias (who has decent speed, can play 5 positions about average, switch hits, can bunt, has occassional power) is better all-around than Jim Thome, who can only hit for power and walk.

 

For me, being an all-around player means having the five tools of baseball: speed, strong arm, hitting for average, hitting for power, and fielding. So that would be guys like Bonds in his prime, Larry Walker in his prime, Bobby Abreu, Carlos Beltran...

 

Well said! Doesn't D. Lee and Albert have these tools at least compared to those in the league? I will admit that D. Lee and Albert are not your typical 5 tool players but they both are great athletes who are great at all facets of the game. I would have to put both of these guys before Jeter, Pudge/skinny, and Chipper Jones.

[SirPlopigus]

rawaction wrote:

I never understood the idea of "best all-around". What does that mean? Is that the person who can do the most things near the best in the league? Wouldn't that mean Jose Macias (who has decent speed, can play 5 positions about average, switch hits, can bunt, has occassional power) is better all-around than Jim Thome, who can only hit for power and walk.

 

For me, being an all-around player means having the five tools of baseball: speed, strong arm, hitting for average, hitting for power, and fielding. So that would be guys like Bonds in his prime, Larry Walker in his prime, Bobby Abreu, Carlos Beltran...

 

Well said! Doesn't D. Lee and Albert have these tools at least compared to those in the league? I will admit that D. Lee and Albert are not your typical 5 tool players but they both are great athletes who are great at all facets of the game. I would have to put both of these guys before Jeter, Pudge/skinny, and Chipper Jones.

Lee can become a 5 tool player if he keeps his average up. If not, he probably has 4 of the 5 tools, not sure about speed.

 

For Pujols, he would need to become faster, which won't be happening. Pujols is a smart baserunner though which can make up for his lack of speed

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Two years ago (I believe), Lee had 21 steals, and 19 the year before that. He's not Rickey Henderson in any stretch of the imagination, but he's not slow.

 

And Barry Bonds is the best player in the league. All around or otherwise. I'd say Pujols is 2nd. And then the rest of the field can argue their way into third.

[SirPlopigus]

Two years ago (I believe), Lee had 21 steals, and 19 the year before that. He's not Rickey Henderson in any stretch of the imagination, but he's not slow.

 

And Barry Bonds is the best player in the league. All around or otherwise. I'd say Pujols is 2nd. And then the rest of the field can argue their way into third.

Barry Bonds is not an all around player anymore. And if he wasn't so close to breaking the HR record, he would have retired this year, atleast thats my opinion

[SirPlopigus]

And when I think of speed, I think of Ichiro and Juan Pierre.

[erik316wttn]

Jeter on the list is ridiculous. He isn't top 10 offensively, and not even a top 10 defensive SS.

 

But he dove into the stands for a foul ball!! That should give him a Gold Glove for life!!!! :roll: :roll:

[YearofDaCubs]

Pujols, ARod, Bonds, Tejada.

[Exile on Waveland]

Jeter on the list is ridiculous. He isn't top 10 offensively, and not even a top 10 defensive SS.

 

But he dove into the stands for a foul ball!! That should give him a Gold Glove for life!!!! :roll: :roll:

 

Just the Gold Glove? I was thinking they should make a new award for him, the Gold Human Award. It shall be given every year to Derek Jeter, until he retires. At which point, it shall be given every year to Derek Jeter.

[Cubzfan64]

Top 4 "all around" players of today imho - and I won't put them in any particular order because I'm guessing a case could be made for any one of them to be #1:

 

ARod, Vlad, Pujols, Tejada, Beltran

 

I also agree with others that to be an all around player you need to be able to:

 

1. Defend your position with a minimum of above average ability

2. Throw the ball with accuracy and strength

3. Hit for power

4. Hit for average

5. Be considered either a good basestealer or someone who has a better then average ability to run the bases.

 

Barry Bonds of today does not fit into those criteria - he used to, but not anymore.

 

D. Lee is in the top 10 in my book, but not the top 5

[Warpticon]

Forgot to mention; any top-5 all-around list sans Abreu is broken. Abreu > Beltran. Same feature set, but Abreu's better in avg and consistency.

[imb]

Beltran, seriously?

[brindelin]

What about Miguel Cabrera? I don't see why people really put that much value into stolen bases, I'd drop that from the 5 tools!

[imb]

As long as plate discipline isnt a tool (right gary hughes), id like to nominate Jeff Francouer for future consideration.

[1wizard]

What about Miguel Cabrera? I don't see why people really put that much value into stolen bases, I'd drop that from the 5 tools!

 

Cabrera is an average defender. Some would even consider him a below average defensive player. I would consider him one of the best offensive players for sure. I love watching the kid hit; he is a great offensive player.

 

Neely Crenshaw wrote:

dlee could be a 30/30 guy maybe even 40/40. but you can not afford to turn him lose as a base stealer because of the wear it causes.

 

I highly doubt D. Lee could swip 40 bases in a season. In fact, I think 30 is out of his reach. His most is 21 for the 2003 Florida Marlins. I don't think he is going to get as many opportunities as a number three hitter and he is not a stolen base threat in the traditional sense. He has to be very selective in stealing bases.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I think it'll be pretty rare from now on to see a 30/30 or 40/40 guy. The stolen base isn't used like it used to be. It used to be common to keep watch on guys like Conseco and Bonds to see if they could do it, but it's a different game now.

[K-Town]

I think it'll be pretty rare from now on to see a 30/30 or 40/40 guy. The stolen base isn't used like it used to be. It used to be common to keep watch on guys like Conseco and Bonds to see if they could do it, but it's a different game now.

 

Believe it or not, Reggie Sanders (of all people) was on pace for 30/30 this year, before his injury.

 

That doesn't make him a candidate as one of the best all-around players, by any stretch, though.

 

I pretty much agree with the opinions expressed. A-rod should be a lock.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I think it'll be pretty rare from now on to see a 30/30 or 40/40 guy. The stolen base isn't used like it used to be. It used to be common to keep watch on guys like Conseco and Bonds to see if they could do it, but it's a different game now.

 

Believe it or not, Reggie Sanders (of all people) was on pace for 30/30 this year, before his injury.

 

That doesn't make him a candidate as one of the best all-around players, by any stretch, though.

 

I pretty much agree with the opinions expressed. A-rod should be a lock.

 

Oh, I'm not saying it still won't ever happen. I'm just saying it'll be rare. Sanders had a shot, but he got hurt. Guys like Abreu and Beltran are prime candidates, but we'll have to see if they can put a season like that together.

 

By the way, how old is Cabrera? Isn't he really young, like 22? I think if he is given a few years, he could develop into one of the best. And I know his average is low, but why hasn't Andruw Jones name been mentioned (at least that I have seen, I've only skimmed through this thread)?

[K-Town]

I think it'll be pretty rare from now on to see a 30/30 or 40/40 guy. The stolen base isn't used like it used to be. It used to be common to keep watch on guys like Conseco and Bonds to see if they could do it, but it's a different game now.

 

Believe it or not, Reggie Sanders (of all people) was on pace for 30/30 this year, before his injury.

 

That doesn't make him a candidate as one of the best all-around players, by any stretch, though.

 

I pretty much agree with the opinions expressed. A-rod should be a lock.

 

Oh, I'm not saying it still won't ever happen. I'm just saying it'll be rare. Sanders had a shot, but he got hurt. Guys like Abreu and Beltran are prime candidates, but we'll have to see if they can put a season like that together.

 

By the way, how old is Cabrera? Isn't he really young, like 22? I think if he is given a few years, he could develop into one of the best. And I know his average is low, but why hasn't Andruw Jones name been mentioned (at least that I have seen, I've only skimmed through this thread)?

 

Andruw has a good bat, and good defense, but hasn't really been an effective base-stealer (even less in the last 5 years). Same for Cabrera. Pujols has actually been one of the most effective base-stealers in baseball this year, which probably makes it a toss-up between him and A-rod as the best all-around player THIS YEAR.