I'd like some Cardinal fans' opinions...

[SAMMYWHO]

My take is when the Zambrano/Edmonds thing went down, Barrett got into it with the Cardinal Bench. After the beaning by Zambrano I believe there was a warning and then all the cameras went on Barrett as he was talking trash back with the Cardinals bench. I asked my co-worker who is a huge Cards fan and he was remembering Barrett in the paper with some disrespectful comments after the game. We're pretty sure it was after that game. Hope that helps gus_dog.

[indifferent]

My take is when the Zambrano/Edmonds thing went down, Barrett got into it with the Cardinal Bench. After the beaning by Zambrano I believe there was a warning and then all the cameras went on Barrett as he was talking trash back with the Cardinals bench. I asked my co-worker who is a huge Cards fan and he was remembering Barrett in the paper with some disrespectful comments after the game. We're pretty sure it was after that game. Hope that helps gus_dog.

 

That's incident I was referring to; I mean what exactly was he arguing about?

[gus_dog]

My take is when the Zambrano/Edmonds thing went down, Barrett got into it with the Cardinal Bench. After the beaning by Zambrano I believe there was a warning and then all the cameras went on Barrett as he was talking trash back with the Cardinals bench. I asked my co-worker who is a huge Cards fan and he was remembering Barrett in the paper with some disrespectful comments after the game. We're pretty sure it was after that game. Hope that helps gus_dog.

 

That's incident I was referring to; I mean what exactly was he arguing about?

 

We don't know what was said from either side, and likely never will know.

[1wizard]

Carlos hit Edmonds in one game, and hasn't done anything to him since then. Carlos is immature (he seems to be getting better, I think he's only thrown at one guy this year), the way I view Oswalt is he's just being a jerk.

 

I recall a game this year where Z gave up a hr in the early innings and then plunked the next guy in the back with a fastball. It was so obvious that Santo denounced Z's actions as unacceptable. That sounds like the actions of a jerk to me. Then again I am not a Cub fan so it is easy for me to make a generalization that probably is baseless much like calling Oswalt a jerk.

 

As for Barrett, I don't hate him, but I don't like how lippy he is. Like Gusdog said, there is an appropriate way to deal with such situations with players like Oswalt (assuming he was wrong and is a a-hole). Likewise in the Cardinal/Cub debacle he was one of the main idiots along with Morris and Zambrano.

 

I think a good comparison is Edmonds for Cub fans. Jim Edmonds has not done anything to warrent the hatred he recieves other than being a good player who plays for the Cardinals. That is natural. Even great players and people like Sandberg, Ozzie, Pujols and D. Lee are not liked during their playing career by the opposing side (generally speaking). I for one could not stand Sandberg when he played. Now, I have a great deal of respect for him and think he is what is right about baseball.

[SAMMYWHO]

Well put Wizard. If I read your name right you'll appreciate me saying I admired "The Wizard" when he played. I grew up a shortstop and loved watching Ozzie play. Even though I wanted him to lose and hated the rest of the Cardinals. Back to the Barrett thing, I was thinking a couple guys on the Cards wanted to brawl but the umpires stopped anything from happening. Very good job by the umpires keeping everyone cool if I remember correctly. Not saying in a bad way, because Barrett probably deserved it but I think a couple bench players on the cards were taunting him or pleading for him to start something.

[imb]

I love Roy-O. He weighs about a buck twenty, and he just doesnt care.

[1wizard]

Sammywho wrote:

If I read your name right you'll appreciate me saying I admired "The Wizard" when he played.

 

You are right and I do appreciate it. I was a huge Ozzie Smith fan growing up, and he and Ryno were special. Yet, I think you would be in the minority.

[SAMMYWHO]

Sammywho wrote:

If I read your name right you'll appreciate me saying I admired "The Wizard" when he played.

 

You are right and I do appreciate it. I was a huge Ozzie Smith fan growing up, and he and Ryno were special. Yet, I think you would be in the minority.

 

What minority? Liking the Wizard?

[1wizard]

Liking the Wizard

 

At least while he played.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Well put Wizard. If I read your name right you'll appreciate me saying I admired "The Wizard" when he played. I grew up a shortstop and loved watching Ozzie play. Even though I wanted him to lose and hated the rest of the Cardinals. Back to the Barrett thing, I was thinking a couple guys on the Cards wanted to brawl but the umpires stopped anything from happening. Very good job by the umpires keeping everyone cool if I remember correctly. Not saying in a bad way, because Barrett probably deserved it but I think a couple bench players on the cards were taunting him or pleading for him to start something.

 

I remember the Chicago broadcast showing the Cards dugout, and a couple of guys were yelling stuff at Barrett and trying to get his attention when he was taking signs from Dusty. LaRussa was standing next to them laughing. So Barrett stood up and yelled back at them. And then I remember thinking that I hope those guys come out of the dugout so Carlos could hit them with a fastball that would leave a two foot hole when it came out the other side. And honestly, I still wouldn't mind seeing LaRussa get drilled. It was classless when it happened. But then again, that whole series was classless. The Cubs lead in bean balls I believe, but half of them were curve balls that got away. I'm pretty sure Carlos is the only one to intentionally drill someone on the Cubs side.

[fulldeck]

Well put Wizard. If I read your name right you'll appreciate me saying I admired "The Wizard" when he played. I grew up a shortstop and loved watching Ozzie play. Even though I wanted him to lose and hated the rest of the Cardinals. Back to the Barrett thing, I was thinking a couple guys on the Cards wanted to brawl but the umpires stopped anything from happening. Very good job by the umpires keeping everyone cool if I remember correctly. Not saying in a bad way, because Barrett probably deserved it but I think a couple bench players on the cards were taunting him or pleading for him to start something.

 

I remember the Chicago broadcast showing the Cards dugout, and a couple of guys were yelling stuff at Barrett and trying to get his attention when he was taking signs from Dusty. LaRussa was standing next to them laughing. So Barrett stood up and yelled back at them. And then I remember thinking that I hope those guys come out of the dugout so Carlos could hit them with a fastball that would leave a two foot hole when it came out the other side. And honestly, I still wouldn't mind seeing LaRussa get drilled. It was classless when it happened. But then again, that whole series was classless. The Cubs lead in bean balls I believe, but half of them were curve balls that got away. I'm pretty sure Carlos is the only one to intentionally drill someone on the Cubs side.

 

TLR laughing in the dugout during a game? I highly doubt that.

[ObjectiveCardsFan]

There was bad blood throughout the year last year, and Barrett always seemed to be in the middle of it. The incident everyone keeps bringing up was the big one -- when after Z intentionally hit Edmonds (for the 2nd time!?), Barrett had the nerve to walk towards the Cards dugout and holler at LaRussa (not that LaRussa is ever innocent, but in this case there was clear fault). It really wasn't too big of a deal, but that's how things are magnified in a rivalry......

 

Sort of like when Morris said in '03 that he'd rather have the Astros win the division because they are more professional, and now Cubs fans detest Morris more than any other Cardinal, and probably don't even remember why.............the Morris thing is ironic. He loves the city of Chicago, HE MET HIS WIFE AT WRIGLEY, and his wife and in-laws are diehard Cubs fans........yet Morris is enemy #1.

 

FWIW, Zambrano is the only guy on the Cubs who makes my skin crawl......but he can bring it, I'll give him that.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There was bad blood throughout the year last year, and Barrett always seemed to be in the middle of it. The incident everyone keeps bringing up was the big one -- when after Z intentionally hit Edmonds (for the 2nd time!?), Barrett had the nerve to walk towards the Cards dugout and holler at LaRussa (not that LaRussa is ever innocent, but in this case there was clear fault). It really wasn't too big of a deal, but that's how things are magnified in a rivalry......

 

Sort of like when Morris said in '03 that he'd rather have the Astros win the division because they are more professional, and now Cubs fans detest Morris more than any other Cardinal, and probably don't even remember why.............the Morris thing is ironic. He loves the city of Chicago, HE MET HIS WIFE AT WRIGLEY, and his wife and in-laws are diehard Cubs fans........yet Morris is enemy #1.

 

FWIW, Zambrano is the only guy on the Cubs who makes my skin crawl......but he can bring it, I'll give him that.

 

I've never heard that(or forgotten it) about Morris, the quote about professionalism. Most that I've run into don't like him for throwing at players' heads.

[imb]

i hate morris because hes a douchebag with a lopsided face.

 

im serious, it looks like someone used the rotate tool in photoshop.

[PujolsPower]

 

I've never heard that(or forgotten it) about Morris, the quote about professionalism. Most that I've run into don't like him for throwing at players' heads.

 

Whose head did he throw at? Did he hit a player in the head?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

I've never heard that(or forgotten it) about Morris, the quote about professionalism. Most that I've run into don't like him for throwing at players' heads.

 

Whose head did he throw at? Did he hit a player in the head?

 

He missed Lee in the head, and may have thrown at Patterson's head at well. Definitely Lee though, and there's almost no doubt it was intentional.

[PujolsPower]

Neither team is completely innocent when it comes to the heated rivalry. Morris threw up and in a couple of times, but I don't believe he was trying to hit Lee in the head as much as he was sending a message that he didn't appreciate Cards batters being thrown at. A couple of Cardinal hitters had been thrown at in the same game. I believe Kerry Wood has thrown up and in on batters many more times than Morris has.

[K-Town]

 

I've never heard that(or forgotten it) about Morris, the quote about professionalism. Most that I've run into don't like him for throwing at players' heads.

 

Whose head did he throw at? Did he hit a player in the head?

 

He missed Lee in the head, and may have thrown at Patterson's head at well. Definitely Lee though, and there's almost no doubt it was intentional.

 

Larussa doesn't tolerate his players throwing at other players' heads, plain and simple. Nor does he tolerate other pitchers throwing at his players' heads.

 

Kerry Wood threw at Morris' head THREE TIMES when Morris was in his most vulerable position (trying to bunt). When Morris came up the first time, Wood threw at him TWICE (the 1st pitch was at his mid-section, as he tried to bunt....... the 2nd pitch was directly at his head, as he tried to bunt again). Morris took the high road when Wood came to bat, and promptly struck him out on 3 pitches. Morris' next at-bat was a replay of the first. He tried to bunt Matheny over, and Wood threw the pitch directly at his head. The Wrigley fans cheered wildly.

 

Morris is the bad guy?

 

As for the earlier post, where someone said that Larussa was laughing in the dugout, I'm going to go so far as to say without reservation that the story is made up. Larussa doesn't laugh with his players in the dugout.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Throwing up and in on the bunt is the way I was taught. It's about the only defense against the bunt since it is the hardest pitch for the batter to get down. If he still tries to bunt, he's likely to pop it up which is a desireable end.

 

I've heard many an old timer say you never bunted on Nolan Ryan because it was a well known fact that he'd drill you if you squared too early.

 

Throwing up and in on a bunt attempt, in my opinion, is the proper move. It's the best way to defense the sac bunt.

[K-Town]

Throwing up and in on the bunt is the way I was taught. It's about the only defense against the bunt since it is the hardest pitch for the batter to get down. If he still tries to bunt, he's likely to pop it up which is a desireable end.

 

I've heard many an old timer say you never bunted on Nolan Ryan because it was a well known fact that he'd drill you if you squared too early.

 

Throwing up and in on a bunt attempt, in my opinion, is the proper move. It's the best way to defense the sac bunt.

 

Throwing at a guy's head is a good defense? It's a ball. Four of them puts the batter on first base (if you don't end the guy's career, first). Is that what you want?

 

If Morris hadn't quickly hit the dirt, the pitch would have shattered his face. I don't care if you're Nolan Ryan, Kerry Wood, or a 12 year old........... you don't throw at a guy's head under any circumstances.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I might be mistaken, but didn't Morris throw BEHIND Kerry Wood once? Granted I'm sure Kerry deserved it. I'm not saying Kerry doesn't throw up and in occasionally. But you have to look at how wild he can be sometimes before you judge him. The majority of his HBP's have been curve balls. You don't try to bean someone with a curve ball. And on a bunt, you always try to get it to the top, inside corner of the zone. That's how you get them to pop it up. And on a sacrifice bunt, the batter usually won't pull the bat back because the runner is ready to run right away. I don't think throwing up and in on Morris' bunt was all that bad.

 

Both teams are at fault in the bean ball war. Yeah, Cub fans don't like Morris, but I actually hate Jim Edmonds more. Cards fans have good reason to dislike Zambrano. But he's been better lately. He hasn't lost his cool since I believe one of his first starts this year.

[Wild_Cubs04]

Throwing up and in on the bunt is the way I was taught. It's about the only defense against the bunt since it is the hardest pitch for the batter to get down. If he still tries to bunt, he's likely to pop it up which is a desireable end.

 

I've heard many an old timer say you never bunted on Nolan Ryan because it was a well known fact that he'd drill you if you squared too early.

 

Throwing up and in on a bunt attempt, in my opinion, is the proper move. It's the best way to defense the sac bunt.

 

Throwing at a guy's head is a good defense? It's a ball. Four of them puts the batter on first base (if you don't end the guy's career, first). Is that what you want?

 

If Morris hadn't quickly hit the dirt, the pitch would have shattered his face. I don't care if you're Nolan Ryan, Kerry Wood, or a 12 year old........... you don't throw at a guy's head under any circumstances.

 

That's not even close to what Vance said, you must just like to twist words and argue??

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

And when Matt Morris said that he hoped the Astros would make the playoffs over us, it was right around the time that Prior said he didn't care if the Cubs were in the playoffs, as long as the Cardinals didn't make it. (or something to that effect)

 

So both teams are to blame.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Throwing up and in on the bunt is the way I was taught. It's about the only defense against the bunt since it is the hardest pitch for the batter to get down. If he still tries to bunt, he's likely to pop it up which is a desireable end.

 

I've heard many an old timer say you never bunted on Nolan Ryan because it was a well known fact that he'd drill you if you squared too early.

 

Throwing up and in on a bunt attempt, in my opinion, is the proper move. It's the best way to defense the sac bunt.

 

Throwing at a guy's head is a good defense? It's a ball. Four of them puts the batter on first base (if you don't end the guy's career, first). Is that what you want?

 

If Morris hadn't quickly hit the dirt, the pitch would have shattered his face. I don't care if you're Nolan Ryan, Kerry Wood, or a 12 year old........... you don't throw at a guy's head under any circumstances.

 

There's a difference in throwing up and in on a bunt and when I guy is just standing in the box. Often when the pitch is thrown up and in on a bunt attempt, the hitter will react by pulling the bat up and popping the ball up. Sure if he takes the pitch it's a ball and that might not be the best defense, but if it discourages the hitter from squaring around again, then it has been an effective pitch. Furthermore, it may mentally affect the hitter casuing him to square late on the next attempt and therefore not get the bunt down properly. So, yes, up and in on a bunt is good if not the best strategy. When I played and squared early (I was called on to bunt lots because I pretty much sucked at the plate), I expected one up and in. Most of the times, it didn't happen which I appreciated because it made getting a good bunt down much easier, but when it did happen...it usually resulted in my popping out to the catcher because when seeing the ball head that way I'd instictively bring up the bat to block the pitch. I would get pissed, but not at the pitcher.

[K-Town]

There's a difference in throwing up and in on a bunt and when I guy is just standing in the box. Often when the pitch is thrown up and in on a bunt attempt, the hitter will react by pulling the bat up and popping the ball up. Sure if he takes the pitch it's a ball and that might not be the best defense, but if it discourages the hitter from squaring around again, then it has been an effective pitch. Furthermore, it may mentally affect the hitter casuing him to square late on the next attempt and therefore not get the bunt down properly. So, yes, up and in on a bunt is good if not the best strategy. When I played and squared early (I was called on to bunt lots because I pretty much sucked at the plate), I expected one up and in. Most of the times, it didn't happen which I appreciated because it made getting a good bunt down much easier, but when it did happen...it usually resulted in my popping out to the catcher because when seeing the ball head that way I'd instictively bring up the bat to block the pitch. I would get pissed, but not at the pitcher.

 

Wood knocked Morris down THREE TIMES, in one game. How many players has he knocked down trying to bunt since that game? You could probably count it on one hand. It was pretty obvious, in the context of that game, what Wood was doing.

 

I actually like Kerry Wood. He might be my favorite Cub (I like the Murton kid too, and Derrek Lee is pretty cool). I just think it's hypocritical to imply that Morris is some sort of "bad guy".