Maddux

[NorthsideAvenger]

What I will suggest might bring some heat to me, but who cares...

 

Should Maddux be DFA?

 

I know DFA a future HOFer is NOT a good PR move, I understand that, but keeping a player/pitcher who isn't really helping the team, is not a good baseball decision.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=1800

 

This is not worth letting him get his option picked up, I'm sorry. I love Maddux, and he is truly a genius at pitching, but he isn't helping the Cubs---not hurting--and if the Cubs are going to suck for the rest of the yr, I would rather suck with guys like Mitre/Welly/Leicester etc getting a shot at getting more experience. Let Maddux pick where he wants to go (Atl, perhaps) I realize the Cubs would get hammered in the media for letting Maddux go, but no harder then BoSox letting Clemens leave. The season is shot, so public opinion really wouldn't matter, now does it?

 

But DFA Maddux wouldn't be the ONLY move....I would move Burnitz, Lawton, Walker in waiver wire deals. If the Cubs are going to suck I rather suck with the kids playing.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

There's no way you do this. It's not like we have any pitchers who could perform any better.

[katway]

While Maddux is not worth what he will be paid next year if he reaches his innings, it seems to me that it would be poor form to let him go at this point to simply prevent him from vesting when he actually is our third best pitcher following Prior and Z. In other words we would DFA him not because he is the worst starting pitcher, but because we simply want to prevent him from vesting. I just feel like the organization made the vesting deal based on innings without contingencies for ERA, etc. The organization made that deal and should stick to it, to do otherwise when the player is still better than most of the starters on your team is somewhat dishonorable.

[Chocolate Milk]

That would be an incredibly classless move.

 

I'm sure it would make it difficult to sign players if we start DFAign people so they can't reach their incentives.

[WindyCity]

Not only would this be a bad PR move, but if Maddux was DFA'd and no one traded for him in 10 days.... he would be free to sign with any team and the Cubs would still be on the hook for his $9mil next year minus the league minimum (even if he reached his 400 IP clause on another team).... and, knowing Cub-luck, he'd probably be pitching lights out for St. Louis to boot.

[chicubs]

I would get rid of Maddux, but like someone else said, we still still have to pay his contract if we DFA him.

 

Being classy does NOT win championships. Look at the Red Sox.

[Mark_R]

I still nominate bad head cold causing two missed starts....

 

 

That option is an albatross.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There's no way you do this. It's not like we have any pitchers who could perform any better.

 

That's the kicker. If Hill and Williams were performing better, a move like this might be better received if accompanied with another "throw in the towel" move like trading Burnitz.

[Mark_R]

There's no way you do this. It's not like we have any pitchers who could perform any better.

 

If we were in a pennant race, I'd agree, but come on, this team is a joke. No need to keep running out a guy who is a HUGE hinderance for next season. See if the kids can pitch instead of the same old 5-6 IP and 3-Plus ER song and dance.

 

Does it matter at this point if we don't have someone "better" than Maddux?

[Backtobanks]

I posted in another discussion that I think Maddux might retire this offseason (with some kind of settlement from the Cubs). I think he has too much pride to be a below average #4 or #5 starter and tarnish his HOF credentials.

[andrew9991]

I would get rid of Maddux, but like someone else said, we still still have to pay his contract if we DFA him.

 

Being classy does NOT win championships. Look at the Red Sox.

 

 

Designating Maddux for assignment just so he can't reach his incentives is ridiculous. That type of move would send the completely wrong message to possible free agents across the league. Letting Maddux go the first time made the Cubs look like idiots...designating him for assignment this time would make the Cubs look plain bush league.

[PackLandVA]

Anybody think Maddux would actually hang 'em up after tthis season, even if he reached the option for next year. I mean, he's gotta recognize he's not nearly the pitcher he's been even a few years ago. And he seems destined to have his 15+ wins streak end this season. He seems like a classy guy. Does he want to stay around and pitch well under his career abilities? I wouldn't be shocked if he retired. Not saying he will....just that it wouldn't surprise me. If not, I'll take him with the big salary. The Cubs offered it in order to get him. He accepted. So pay him, and hopefully he can continue to help the younger pitchers (assuming he currently is).

[erik316wttn]

There's no way you do this. It's not like we have any pitchers who could perform any better.

 

And what kind of message would that send to any potential FA's?

[TruffleShuffle]

Designating Maddux for assignment just so he can't reach his incentives is ridiculous. That type of move would send the completely wrong message to possible free agents across the league.

 

The vast majority of free agents are concerned about one thing first and foremost, and that's how many dollars will be in their wallet after they sign. Believe it or not, Mike Hampton didn't really care that much about the quality of public schools in the Denver region. A-Rod didn't sign with Texas because they had exciting young prospects. Carlos Beltran didn't go to the Mets because he loves New York City and was excited about the team's future.

 

It comes down to money. Guys know this is a business, they know their time as a professional athlete is limited, and they go to the place where they'll get the most money. Personally, if I were a free agent and wanted to win right away, the Cubs not allowing Maddux's option to vest would send me the right message, not the wrong one. The only thing it would make me leery of would be signing a contract with the team based on plate appearances, games or innings. I do think the Cubs were idiots for not putting a performance-based clause in the contract... Maddux has always been durable, but his effectiveness was starting to slip.

 

Anyway, the Cubs will do the "right" thing and let his option vest, and he'll be a mediocre $9M pitcher next year. Which, I suppose, won't be that big of a deal since the Cubs probably aren't going anywhere in 2006 either.

[WindyCity]

It comes down to money. Guys know this is a business, they know their time as a professional athlete is limited, and they go to the place where they'll get the most money. Personally, if I were a free agent and wanted to win right away, the Cubs not allowing Maddux's option to vest would send me the right message, not the wrong one. The only thing it would make me leery of would be signing a contract with the team based on plate appearances, games or innings. I do think the Cubs were idiots for not putting a performance-based clause in the contract... Maddux has always been durable, but his effectiveness was starting to slip.

 

The IP clause is a performance-based clause. MLBPA prevents wins, ERA, and other more obvious performance-based clauses from being in any player contracts. You can't have a saves clause in the contract, but you can have incentives based on games "finished".... the irony is that a lot of the blown saves Latroy had were credit towards his games-finished incentives.

 

I disagree that FAs would take the Cubs' dumping of a future HOFer and class-act like Maddux as the "right" message. It would kill any ability for the GM to negotiate incentives into any contracts. The Cubs would have to effectively overpay free agents to come to Chicago. Not a good idea on many levels IMO.

[neely crenshaw]

classless or not..you do not stab players in the back when they signed a backloaded contract to try to help the cubs win. now we owe him. if he doesn't get it on his own..fine but you can not screw him out of it. the best move would have been to try and move him before the break to a contender he would like to play for...

 

we all have ideas to sign this guy or that guy and backload the contarct well if you screw greg maddux- no one is going to give the cubs a home team discount or help them with a deal.

 

by the way...earlier when maddux was winning many people were saying he wasn't any good because his era was high. well boys, he has been steadily dropping his era(from 5.00 to 4.50) but hasn't got the support. so shouldn't we be happy with him...his era is dropping quickly! so which way is it?

[minnesotacubsfan]

What I will suggest might bring some heat to me, but who cares...

 

Should Maddux be DFA?

 

I know DFA a future HOFer is NOT a good PR move, I understand that, but keeping a player/pitcher who isn't really helping the team, is not a good baseball decision.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=1800

 

This is not worth letting him get his option picked up, I'm sorry. I love Maddux, and he is truly a genius at pitching, but he isn't helping the Cubs---not hurting--and if the Cubs are going to suck for the rest of the yr, I would rather suck with guys like Mitre/Welly/Leicester etc getting a shot at getting more experience. Let Maddux pick where he wants to go (Atl, perhaps) I realize the Cubs would get hammered in the media for letting Maddux go, but no harder then BoSox letting Clemens leave. The season is shot, so public opinion really wouldn't matter, now does it?

 

But DFA Maddux wouldn't be the ONLY move....I would move Burnitz, Lawton, Walker in waiver wire deals. If the Cubs are going to suck I rather suck with the kids playing.

 

YES HE SHOULD BE

[Fro]

It'd be incredibly stupid to try to prevent Maddux's option from vesting or DFAing him.

 

Hopefully he has enough pride to realize he doesn't have it anymore or he starts taking whatever Clemens is taking (HGH?) and gets his stuff back.

[TruffleShuffle]

It'd be incredibly stupid to try to prevent Maddux's option from vesting or DFAing him.

 

Hopefully he has enough pride to realize he doesn't have it anymore or he starts taking whatever Clemens is taking (HGH?) and gets his stuff back.

 

Yes, because starting to take steroids to hang on at the end of your career wouldn't be incredibly stupid.

No. Just no. You don't screw Greg Maddux over. Honestly.