Confirmed - Rafael Palmiero tests positive.

[gus_dog]

Big Mac looks pretty good right now.

 

Why, are you hungry?????

[Rerisen]

Hey NSBB. I thought Raffy was having a rather mediocre season from the get go and it made you wonder. But after the All-Star Break, his numbers were starting to ramp up for what its worth. To me this is not even a mild shock. It always grated to hear the arguements that no one should be even speculated to have used steroids unless it was proven beyond doubt. Are we to believe the only steroid users in baseball were Canseco, Caminiti, and now Raffy?

[XZero771679666304]

At least Raffy didn't say he thought it was flax seed oil. :lol: Serously, how can guys say they took the stuff "unknowingly"? As a professional athlete, you are going to know exactly what everything that goes in and on your body is. I never thought Raffy juiced, so I am a bit surprised, but I don't suspect any more players than I did before.

 

Big Mac pretty much admitted he did. Giambi admitted he did. Bonds admitted he (unknowingly :roll: ) did. I strongly suspect Sosa did.

 

The Raffy test surprises me, but doesn't really change my perception at all.

[Soul]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk (probably too late to try and mitigate that anyway :)), there should be no suprise at this from anyone.

 

I had this nailed from the day Raffy lied to Congress. All you had to do was crunch the numbers (in fact, I posted them a few weeks ago). Raffy's # of ABs per HR went down at a sizeable clip right after he met Jose Canseco. He never hit for that kind of power in the major leagues----until he met Jose. It was easy to see through his smiling face and perfectly groomed mustache.

 

But I still said he deserved the Hall of Fame because he had never been caught. Now he has. Therefore, I will say this: if Raffy's in, pony up for Pete Rose. Otherwise baseball's Hall of Fame is nothing but a sham. After seeing one of the game's *REAL* good guys get enshrined into the halls of immortality this weekend, I don't want to see favoritism or an uneven hand. Therefore, Raffy should be OUT. No further questions should be asked. Keep the Hall for the pure baseball greats. If that means kicking a few out, then so be it. Caught cheating = out.

 

It's amazing to me how trusting you folks are. But then again, I'm a pretty jaded person so I sort of envy the goodwill many of you have. Just know this: these guys are baseball players & businessmen. Not heroes. They will lie & lie again until the cows come home to protect their empires.

[J.R.]

It's amazing to me how trusting you folks are. But then again, I'm a pretty jaded person so I sort of envy the goodwill many of you have. Just know this: these guys are baseball players & businessmen. Not heroes. They will lie & lie again until the cows come home to protect their empires.

 

It's not that I'm trusting - I just don't care. The players themselves will have to deal with the consequences of using these drugs. I'm just there for the show.

 

Besides, if getting to hit off of LaTroy Hawkins isn't an illegal advantage I don't know what one is.

[AlwaysaCub]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk (probably too late to try and mitigate that anyway :)), there should be no suprise at this from anyone.

 

I had this nailed from the day Raffy lied to Congress. All you had to do was crunch the numbers (in fact, I posted them a few weeks ago). Raffy's # of ABs per HR went down at a sizeable clip right after he met Jose Canseco. He never hit for that kind of power in the major leagues----until he met Jose. It was easy to see through his smiling face and perfectly groomed mustache.

 

But I still said he deserved the Hall of Fame because he had never been caught. Now he has. Therefore, I will say this: if Raffy's in, pony up for Pete Rose. Otherwise baseball's Hall of Fame is nothing but a sham. After seeing one of the game's *REAL* good guys get enshrined into the halls of immortality this weekend, I don't want to see favoritism or an uneven hand. Therefore, Raffy should be OUT. No further questions should be asked. Keep the Hall for the pure baseball greats. If that means kicking a few out, then so be it. Caught cheating = out.

 

It's amazing to me how trusting you folks are. But then again, I'm a pretty jaded person so I sort of envy the goodwill many of you have. Just know this: these guys are baseball players & businessmen. Not heroes. They will lie & lie again until the cows come home to protect their empires.

 

But aren't you implying that Ryno was a hero, because many Cubs fans definitely treated him like one? Look, there have always been a few clean guys in baseball, guys who really are or were heroes. The same is true today. The only difference is that there is now a testing policy that attempts to weed out the liars and cheaters, so they appear more visible than they really are.

[Magnetic Curses]

but he looked right at the camera and said he never took steroids with conviction!

 

ryno gets the last laugh. palmeiro officially out of cooperstown.

[GaryWoods]

Otherwise baseball's Hall of Fame is nothing but a sham.

 

Too late, it already is.

[GaryWoods]

Aren't there some meds that have illegal substances in them but aren't necessarily for what we think of steroids as being?

 

The properties in steroids that allow athletes to quickly build muscle tissue to enhance performance also work to repair damaged muscle tissue after an injury. I had to take steroids for an eye injury a few years ago, and the doctor gave my wife a shot when she went into labor early to give our daughter's organs a last-minute growth spurt. And I've had several friends who've taken them for various leg and arm problems.

 

So it's entirely possible that an athlete who tested positive could have a perfectly legitimate medical reason if they were rehabbing from some sort of injury.

 

But if that were the case, I think a guy would be up front about it rather than say "Gol, I don't know how them things got in there!"

[Outshined_One]

At least Raffy didn't say he thought it was flax seed oil. :lol: Serously, how can guys say they took the stuff "unknowingly"? As a professional athlete, you are going to know exactly what everything that goes in and on your body is.

 

Ehhhhhhhhhhh...this point can be debated. Yes, it'd be one thing if Palmeiro was unaware of the fact that he jammed a needle into his butt and injected himself with steroids. It's another matter when it comes to supplements.

 

The problem with a lot of multivitamins, "natural health supplements", and various other products you can buy at stores like GNC is that they are almost completely unregulated. There's a reasonable chance that those daily echanecia pills you're taking are 70% sawdust. Here's a nice article on it:

 

Story on Steroids, Orrin Hatch, & The Olympics

 

If I'm Raffy, I'm blaming it on whatever the heck I tested positive for being an unlisted ingredient in any supplements I take.

[treebird]

Will Carroll's column just posted - good read from a good source.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4287

 

I was just going to post that. It's a great article, and it answers a lot of the questions people are asking here.

[XZero771679666304]

At least Raffy didn't say he thought it was flax seed oil. :lol: Serously, how can guys say they took the stuff "unknowingly"? As a professional athlete, you are going to know exactly what everything that goes in and on your body is.

 

Ehhhhhhhhhhh...this point can be debated. Yes, it'd be one thing if Palmeiro was unaware of the fact that he jammed a needle into his butt and injected himself with steroids. It's another matter when it comes to supplements.

 

The problem with a lot of multivitamins, "natural health supplements", and various other products you can buy at stores like GNC is that they are almost completely unregulated. There's a reasonable chance that those daily echanecia pills you're taking are 70% sawdust. Here's a nice article on it:

 

Story on Steroids, Orrin Hatch, & The Olympics

 

If I'm Raffy, I'm blaming it on whatever the heck I tested positive for being an unlisted ingredient in any supplements I take.

 

I don't know. I can tell you that if I am a high profile player in this climate, I don't take anything unless I know exactly what it is. And if I am a millionaire, I am not going to buy my supplements at GNC, I am going to have a nutrition and supplement company (like BALCO) to have my stuff formulated so that I do know exactly what I am taking.

 

MLB players have the motivation and the means to know exactly what they are taking. Ignorance is not a valid excuse for them.

[Hacking Out Machine]

I just want to say thank you to Rafael Palmiero for picking up the torch from Kenny Rogers in the race for the most annoyingly re-hashed national sports radio topic.

[Schwarber Fan]

WOW how bad will the Orioles look if Sammy gets busted!!??

[scs_paradise]

Looks like McGwire's much maligned "legal advice" might not have been so dumb after all.

 

are you conceding that mac is guilty of taking roids? I can't remember if you denied mac's use or not, but you might be the first cards fan I've met who concedes mac's guilt....anyway....

 

no one was saying mac was being dumb especially since he is probably guilty, people just thought he was a chump and a disappointment to his fans, which he remains being.

[JC]

Has anyone yet mentioned the irony that within 24 hours of Ryno's arguably finest hour, Palmeiro experienced his worst? [-X

[TruffleShuffle]

So Pete Rose bet on baseball... is betting on baseball worse than cheating to amass a Hall of Fame resume, and lying to Congress? Hmmmm...

[Soul]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk (probably too late to try and mitigate that anyway :)), there should be no suprise at this from anyone.

 

I had this nailed from the day Raffy lied to Congress. All you had to do was crunch the numbers (in fact, I posted them a few weeks ago). Raffy's # of ABs per HR went down at a sizeable clip right after he met Jose Canseco. He never hit for that kind of power in the major leagues----until he met Jose. It was easy to see through his smiling face and perfectly groomed mustache.

 

But I still said he deserved the Hall of Fame because he had never been caught. Now he has. Therefore, I will say this: if Raffy's in, pony up for Pete Rose. Otherwise baseball's Hall of Fame is nothing but a sham. After seeing one of the game's *REAL* good guys get enshrined into the halls of immortality this weekend, I don't want to see favoritism or an uneven hand. Therefore, Raffy should be OUT. No further questions should be asked. Keep the Hall for the pure baseball greats. If that means kicking a few out, then so be it. Caught cheating = out.

 

It's amazing to me how trusting you folks are. But then again, I'm a pretty jaded person so I sort of envy the goodwill many of you have. Just know this: these guys are baseball players & businessmen. Not heroes. They will lie & lie again until the cows come home to protect their empires.

 

But aren't you implying that Ryno was a hero, because many Cubs fans definitely treated him like one? Look, there have always been a few clean guys in baseball, guys who really are or were heroes. The same is true today. The only difference is that there is now a testing policy that attempts to weed out the liars and cheaters, so they appear more visible than they really are.

 

No, I don't think the implication that Ryno is a "hero" is there. Honestly, how do you think Sandberg would react if you went up to him and said "you are my hero"? I betcha he wouldn't really know what to do. He probably would feel rather uncomfortable with it. Payton would probably be the same way.

 

This is such a confusing topic as far as I'm concerned. Everyone attaches different definitions to the words that are being bandied about: Hero, Role Model, Criminal, Cheater, Good-Guy, Bad-Guy. And the definitions keep changing, too. How does Pete Rose look now? Before he was the Universal Criminal of all baseball history---the leper, the outcast, the poster child for crash n' burn. Now you've got guys like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmiero ready to be launched into the Hall of Fame. Who is the poster child for "cheating" now? Probably not Rose anymore.

 

For me, a hero is someone who sacrifices his life to save others. And I'm sticking with it :) Yeah, that eliminates all sports "heroes" from the equation, but hey. There are plenty of other superlatives we can use for Hall of Famers like Sandberg.

[AlwaysaCub]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk (probably too late to try and mitigate that anyway :)), there should be no suprise at this from anyone.

 

I had this nailed from the day Raffy lied to Congress. All you had to do was crunch the numbers (in fact, I posted them a few weeks ago). Raffy's # of ABs per HR went down at a sizeable clip right after he met Jose Canseco. He never hit for that kind of power in the major leagues----until he met Jose. It was easy to see through his smiling face and perfectly groomed mustache.

 

But I still said he deserved the Hall of Fame because he had never been caught. Now he has. Therefore, I will say this: if Raffy's in, pony up for Pete Rose. Otherwise baseball's Hall of Fame is nothing but a sham. After seeing one of the game's *REAL* good guys get enshrined into the halls of immortality this weekend, I don't want to see favoritism or an uneven hand. Therefore, Raffy should be OUT. No further questions should be asked. Keep the Hall for the pure baseball greats. If that means kicking a few out, then so be it. Caught cheating = out.

 

It's amazing to me how trusting you folks are. But then again, I'm a pretty jaded person so I sort of envy the goodwill many of you have. Just know this: these guys are baseball players & businessmen. Not heroes. They will lie & lie again until the cows come home to protect their empires.

 

But aren't you implying that Ryno was a hero, because many Cubs fans definitely treated him like one? Look, there have always been a few clean guys in baseball, guys who really are or were heroes. The same is true today. The only difference is that there is now a testing policy that attempts to weed out the liars and cheaters, so they appear more visible than they really are.

 

No, I don't think the implication that Ryno is a "hero" is there. Honestly, how do you think Sandberg would react if you went up to him and said "you are my hero"? I betcha he wouldn't really know what to do. He probably would feel rather uncomfortable with it. Payton would probably be the same way.

 

This is such a confusing topic as far as I'm concerned. Everyone attaches different definitions to the words that are being bandied about: Hero, Role Model, Criminal, Cheater, Good-Guy, Bad-Guy. And the definitions keep changing, too. How does Pete Rose look now? Before he was the Universal Criminal of all baseball history---the leper, the outcast, the poster child for crash n' burn. Now you've got guys like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmiero ready to be launched into the Hall of Fame. Who is the poster child for "cheating" now? Probably not Rose anymore.

 

For me, a hero is someone who sacrifices his life to save others. And I'm sticking with it :) Yeah, that eliminates all sports "heroes" from the equation, but hey. There are plenty of other superlatives we can use for Hall of Famers like Sandberg.

 

Okay, you have me there, I'll agree on the fact that baseball players and all professional athletes are not "heroes", but they certainly are role models. And from the days where Honus Wagner wouldn't let his baseball card be on something as disgusting as ciggarettes and then Ty Cobb who would punch fans to today when you have Raphy Palmiero juicing up and really good guys like Derrek Lee (IMO), there are always role models and villians. Nothing has changed as so many people claim. Yes, there still can be role models today in My opinion.

[Soul]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk (probably too late to try and mitigate that anyway :)), there should be no suprise at this from anyone.

 

I had this nailed from the day Raffy lied to Congress. All you had to do was crunch the numbers (in fact, I posted them a few weeks ago). Raffy's # of ABs per HR went down at a sizeable clip right after he met Jose Canseco. He never hit for that kind of power in the major leagues----until he met Jose. It was easy to see through his smiling face and perfectly groomed mustache.

 

But I still said he deserved the Hall of Fame because he had never been caught. Now he has. Therefore, I will say this: if Raffy's in, pony up for Pete Rose. Otherwise baseball's Hall of Fame is nothing but a sham. After seeing one of the game's *REAL* good guys get enshrined into the halls of immortality this weekend, I don't want to see favoritism or an uneven hand. Therefore, Raffy should be OUT. No further questions should be asked. Keep the Hall for the pure baseball greats. If that means kicking a few out, then so be it. Caught cheating = out.

 

It's amazing to me how trusting you folks are. But then again, I'm a pretty jaded person so I sort of envy the goodwill many of you have. Just know this: these guys are baseball players & businessmen. Not heroes. They will lie & lie again until the cows come home to protect their empires.

 

But aren't you implying that Ryno was a hero, because many Cubs fans definitely treated him like one? Look, there have always been a few clean guys in baseball, guys who really are or were heroes. The same is true today. The only difference is that there is now a testing policy that attempts to weed out the liars and cheaters, so they appear more visible than they really are.

 

No, I don't think the implication that Ryno is a "hero" is there. Honestly, how do you think Sandberg would react if you went up to him and said "you are my hero"? I betcha he wouldn't really know what to do. He probably would feel rather uncomfortable with it. Payton would probably be the same way.

 

This is such a confusing topic as far as I'm concerned. Everyone attaches different definitions to the words that are being bandied about: Hero, Role Model, Criminal, Cheater, Good-Guy, Bad-Guy. And the definitions keep changing, too. How does Pete Rose look now? Before he was the Universal Criminal of all baseball history---the leper, the outcast, the poster child for crash n' burn. Now you've got guys like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmiero ready to be launched into the Hall of Fame. Who is the poster child for "cheating" now? Probably not Rose anymore.

 

For me, a hero is someone who sacrifices his life to save others. And I'm sticking with it :) Yeah, that eliminates all sports "heroes" from the equation, but hey. There are plenty of other superlatives we can use for Hall of Famers like Sandberg.

 

Okay, you have me there, I'll agree on the fact that baseball players and all professional athletes are not "heroes", but they certainly are role models. And from the days where Honus Wagner wouldn't let his baseball card be on something as disgusting as ciggarettes and then Ty Cobb who would punch fans to today when you have Raphy Palmiero juicing up and really good guys like Derrek Lee (IMO), there are always role models and villians. Nothing has changed as so many people claim. Yes, there still can be role models today in My opinion.

 

We can only wish more youngsters would look to Ryno for guidance than Terrell Owens. Sadly, it isn't so...

[GaryWoods]

For me, a hero is someone who sacrifices his life to save others. And I'm sticking with it :) Yeah, that eliminates all sports "heroes" from the equation, but hey.

 

Didn't Chief running back Joe Delaney die trying to save a kid from drowning?

 

I don't really disagree with your base premise, that athletic achievement shouldn't be confused with heroism. But there have been plenty of sports figures who are true heroes.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

For me, a hero is someone who sacrifices his life to save others. And I'm sticking with it :) Yeah, that eliminates all sports "heroes" from the equation, but hey.

 

Didn't Chief running back Joe Delaney die trying to save a kid from drowning?

 

I don't really disagree with your base premise, that athletic achievement shouldn't be confused with heroism. But there have been plenty of sports figures who are true heroes.

 

"Heroism" is a rather subjective term and could be used to describe a lot of people, whether or not they saved a child's life. By definition, a hero is "a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities" or "an object of extreme admiration". One cannot be wrong by saying Ryno was a hero.

[Peoriaman]

At least McGwire didn't lie to Congress. He just shut up.

[Coach C]

For me, a hero is someone who sacrifices his life to save others. And I'm sticking with it :) Yeah, that eliminates all sports "heroes" from the equation, but hey.

 

Didn't Chief running back Joe Delaney die trying to save a kid from drowning?

 

I don't really disagree with your base premise, that athletic achievement shouldn't be confused with heroism. But there have been plenty of sports figures who are true heroes.

 

Yes, Joe Delaney drowned on June 29, 1983 while trying to save the lives of three children in Monroe Louisana. You can learn more about him on here.

 

http://www.37forever.org/BB/index.php?s=

 

 

And granted, I never seen him play, but quite a few folks that I talk to in Arrowhead and some message boards, compared him to Priest Holmes.

[scs_paradise]

At least McGwire didn't lie to Congress. He just shut up.

 

a lie of omission not commission is better....legally I agree but morally they are both reprehensible