The newest lineup thread.

[nilodnayr]

Lawton-L

Nomar-R

Lee-R

Aram-R

Burny-L

Barrett-R

Walker-L

Hairston-R

 

I dont like Lawton/Walker because both those guys get hammered by lefties and would be an easy target for a loogy. Dusty would pull walker for neifi if a loogy came in and that would suck. If a righty came in for hairston dusty could come with holla or neifi and then come back with murton for the pitcher's spot. Id rather replace hairston in the lineup than barrett so i move michael up to the 6 spot.

 

Except the loogy would be put in against lawton first, which means we pinch hit murton!!!

[E.J.]

Here's mine. By the way, I don't think there's any way Dusty puts Murton in the 2-hole, but that's where I put him.

 

Lawton RF

Murton LF

Lee 1b

Burnitz CF

Aram 3b

Nomar SS

Walker 2b

Barrett C

 

 

 

I still think Dusty is going to leave Hairston in CF though. :x

[Roast]

You guys gotta let this Murton stuff go. No. 1, he's not very good. No. 2, Baker isn't gonna play the kids. No. 3, Lawton isn't a CF. No. 4, Murton's not very good. No. 5, Did I mention that Murton is a one-tool player?

 

Haha, so you've determined Murton isn't good and is a one-tool player after 32 major league at bats? Is it the .469 BA, .526 OBP or .594 SLG you don't like about him?

 

:mamoru:

[MPrior]

Here's mine. By the way, I don't think there's any way Dusty puts Murton in the 2-hole, but that's where I put him.

 

Lawton RF

Murton LF

Lee 1b

Burnitz CF

Aram 3b

Nomar SS

Walker 2b

Barrett C

 

 

 

I still think Dusty is going to leave Hairston in CF though. :x

 

I've been thinking about Murton in the 2-hole for a while now, and would love to see it. Leading off may be a bit too much pressure for him, since we've put so much importance into that position for the past couple years, but now that we've got Lawton it's not an issue. I also agree with you, though, that Dusty probably will leave Hairston in and keep Murton from playing, and if he did allow him to play, he'd probably never, ever bat him second. Mine's pretty similar to yours, except I think that ARam should hit 4th:

 

Lawton - RF

Murton - LF

Lee - 1B

ARam - 3B

Burnitz - CF (not much range, but still the best option, probably)

Nomar - SS

Walker - 2B

Barrett - C

 

What Dusty will probably do:

 

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Burnitz

ARam

Nomar

Hairston

Barrett

 

Which is stupid. ARam should be hitting behind Lee, period. Hairston, if playing, should bat 1,2, or 8, because his patience will best be used in the top two, and his lack of power will be least likely to be exploited in the 8 spot. And MURTON SHOULD PLAY! At the very least until he proves that he can't handle it.

[badger1679666666]

I also agree with you, though, that Dusty probably will leave Hairston in and keep Murton from playing, and if he did allow him to play, he'd probably never, ever bat him second.

 

Actually, it appears, that if there is a player Dusty hates more than a rookie, it's Hairston. I really don't see him on this team for much longer.

 

Now Murton might not play, but it's because Holly will platoon with him and face the majority of batters, for better or for worse, until his slump just cannot be defended any longer.

 

My lineup:

 

Lawton - RF

Walker - 2B

Lee - 1B

Ramirez - 3B

Nomar - SS

Burny - CF

Barrett - C

Murton - LF

 

And when Dusty's Butt-Buddy(ies) has(have) to play

 

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Burnitz

Barrett

Holly

Perez

 

or

 

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Burnitz

Barrett

Murton

Perez

 

or

 

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Nomar

Burnitz

Barrett

Holly

[woodprior04]

Lineup I'd like to see-

 

Lawton-RF

Murton-LF

Lee-1B

Aram-3B

Burnitz-CF

Nomar-SS

Walker-2B

Barrett-C

 

 

What Clueless will probably do-

 

Lawton-RF

Nomar/Neifi-spitting time-SS

Lee-1B

Burnitz-CF

Aram-3B

Walker-2B

Holly-LF

Barrett-C

[LoneStarCubFan]

It's probably going to look like this:

 

Lawton

Nomar/Walker

Lee

Burnitz

Ramirez

Walker/Nomar

Hairston

Barrett/Blanco

 

1st PH against LH: Neifi

1st PH against RH: Hollandsworth

Stealing a paycheck: Macias

Nailed to the bench: Murton

[cubweiser03]

Lawton-L

Nomar-R

Lee-R

Aram-R

Burny-L

Barrett-R

Walker-L

Hairston-R

 

I dont like Lawton/Walker because both those guys get hammered by lefties and would be an easy target for a loogy. Dusty would pull walker for neifi if a loogy came in and that would suck. If a righty came in for hairston dusty could come with holla or neifi and then come back with murton for the pitcher's spot. Id rather replace hairston in the lineup than barrett so i move michael up to the 6 spot.

 

Except the loogy would be put in against lawton first, which means we pinch hit murton!!!

 

Yes. But if you have walker in the 2 hole the loogy could work around or IBB murton to get back to walker. Nomar prevents this from occuring. Plus with the pitchers spot at 9, you could potentially have 3 lefties in a row with hollandsworth. I know nomar might be rusty but i also like him in front of lee/aram. He should get pitches to hit more up there than down in the order.

 

Walker 3 year splits

.258/.315/.361

.296/.354/.460

Dude is a loogy target, especially for an extra base hit.

[KaiserCesar]

I'd like to see Walker's power lower in the lineup. I'd also put Lawton in left and send down Murton to AAA to get some PT and bring up Grieve for a bat off of the bench. I'd still like Hairston in center and hitting #2 despite his recent shortcomings.

 

Lawton LF

Hairston CF

Lee 1B

Burnitz RF

Ramirez 3B

Walker 2B

Barret/Blanco/Nomar C/SS

Barret/Blanco/Neifi C/SS

 

Bench

Nomar/Neifi

Hollandsworth

Grieve

Macias

Barret/Blanco

[Derwood]

First off, Wood, Nomar and Williamson get activated and Cedeno, Mitre and Novoa go to the mighty Cubs o' Iowa.

 

I bet Dusty does this:

 

1. Hairston - CF

2. Nomar - SS

3. Lee - 1B

4. Burnitz - RF

5. Ramirez - 3B

6. Lawton - LF

7. Walker - 2B

8. Barrett - C

 

 

I know, batting Lawton's OBP down that low makes no sense, but it's Dusty we're talking about here.

[wastra]

I ahve zero clue what Dusty will do. All I know is that I have zero cofnidence that the lineup will be A.) consistant or B.) logical. That's a sad statement, IMO.

[katway]

Why do so many think Walker has power when creating lineups? He's been in the league nearly 10 years and doesn't have 100 homers. He's ok with hitting doubles, but nothing special.

 

I do think Walker is an excellent hitter, but he really doesn't have much power.

 

I'd prefer Walker at the top of the lineup with Lawton. He's much better at getting on base than producing power. If Hairston also starts, then bat him 8th. Hairston has a good eye and I don't mind taking the bat out of his hands when people try to pitch around him to face the pitcher.

[wastra]

I would prefer (until Nomar returns):

 

vs. Righties:

Lawton LF

Walker 2B

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Burnitz RF

Barret C

Hairston CF

Perez SS

 

Vs Lefties, just swap in Murton for Lawton and switch his spot with Hairston's.

 

Having Hairston 8th actually helps this lineup a tad with Lawton at teh top. Lawton has some pop- lots of doubles to go with his decent homerun power, and Hairston could provide him some solid RBI opps.

 

With Nomar:

 

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Burnitz

Nomar

Barret

Hairston

[Burba]

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Burnitz

Garciaparra

Barrett

Hairston

[CubsHawks25]

Here's my lineup ideas vs what Dusty will most likely do, both B.N.R and A.N.R (Before Nomar Returns & After Nomar Returns) - I know its only scheduled to be 3 games B.N.R, but still, it is something that must be accounted for;

 

MY Lineup, B.N.R vs RHP

CF Lawton

LF Murton

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

RF Burnitz

2B Walker

SS Cedeno

C Barrett/Blanco

pitcher

 

Dusty's Lineup, B.N.R vs RHP

LF Lawton

2B Walker

1B Lee

RF Burnitz

3B Ramirez

SS Perez

CF Hairston

C Barrett/Blanco

pitcher

 

MY Lineup, B.N.R vs LHP

CF Lawton

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

RF Burnitz

LF Murton

C Barrett/Blanco

SS Cedeno

pitcher

 

Dusty's Lineup, B.N.R vs LHP

CF Hairston

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

RF Burnitz

LF Lawton/Murton? (if Dusty played MM instead of ML, MM would bat 8th)

SS Perez

C Barrett/Blanco

pitcher

 

 

MY Lineup, A.N.R vs RHP

CF Lawton

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

RF Burnitz

LF Murton

SS Nomar

C Barrett/Blanco

pitcher

(Nomar's going to have to prove himself to move up the order later, but for now, he can "protect" MM)

 

Dusty's Lineup, A.N.R vs RHP

LF Lawton

2B Walker

1B Lee

RF Burnitz

3B Ramirez

SS Perez

CF Hairston

C Barrett/Blanco

pitcher

 

MY Lineup, A.N.R vs LHP

CF Lawton

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

RF Burnitz

LF Murton

SS Nomar

C Barrett/Blanco

pitcher

 

Dusty's Lineup, A.N.R vs LHP

CF Hairston

2B Walker

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

RF Burnitz

C Barrett/Blanco (Nomar 6th, MM 7th, and Blanco 8th in Hank White plays)

SS Nomar

LF Murton

pitcher

 

IF and when Nomar proves he comes back and is hitting the ball well, then I would move him up to the 2-hole;

 

CF Lawton

SS Nomar

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

RF Burnitz

LF Murton

2B Walker

C Barrett/Blanco

pitcher

(maybe switch Murton and Walker around depending on if its a L or RHP that day)

[cheapseats]

Why do so many think Walker has power when creating lineups? He's been in the league nearly 10 years and doesn't have 100 homers.

 

Walker's ISOP is .174. Sammy Sosa's is .175. Todd Helton's is .174. Carlos Beltran? .168.

 

Walker does have decent power. He's had better power numbers this season than Corey Patterson, for example, and most of us feel that if Corey ever straightens out his swing, he should be hitting in the middle of the order.

[anemic offense]

After skimming through three pages in this thread I thought I'd see my lineup. Well, I didn't so here it is:

 

- Lawton (CF/RF) Great OBP/speed at the top. Something this team's been lacking for years.

- Murton (LF) Good siutational hitter with decent speed who doesn't K much. I think he'd make a great hit and run candidate.

- Lee (1B) Need I say more?

- Ramirez (3B) Diddo.

- Burny (RF/CF) Having a pretty solid season.

- Barrett © The biggest waste in out current lineup. There is no reason WHATSOEVER to leave one of our best hitters langishing in the 8 spot. Seemingly every time Baker's slid him up this year he's produced. He also has decent enough speed to hit and run with Walker.

- Walker (2B) Todds better than a number 7 hitter but he's way too slow (with a productive Murton) to stay in the number 2 hole, and its hard for me to supplant the guys ahead of him. He should still get some opportunites to drive in runs.

- Cedeno (SS) The more I see this kid the more I like him. If he can prove to get on base consistently at the MLB level he'd make a great #1or 2 hitter. Has shown he's already one of the best fundamental players on the team. He can hit the ball the other way and has plus speed. But for now I'd have to leave him here.

- Pitcher - If Blanco and or Macias are in the lineup I'd move Carlos up to 7 or 8. He's a much better hitter than those two. :D

[Warren Brusstar]

Here's my post-Nomar, post-Patterson lineup. (I think this will be upon us within the 10 days reported by Levine)

 

1 Lawton LF

2 Nomar SS

3 Lee 1B

4 Burnitz RF

5 Ramirez 3B

6 Walker 2B

7 Barrett C

8 Patterson CF

[CubfaninCA]

Lineup I'd like to see-

 

Lawton-RF

Murton-LF

Lee-1B

Aram-3B

Burnitz-CF

Nomar-SS

Walker-2B

Barrett-C

 

 

What Clueless will probably do-

 

Lawton-RF

Nomar/Neifi-spitting time-SS

Lee-1B

Burnitz-CF

Aram-3B

Walker-2B

Holly-LF

Barrett-C

 

Would this be the worse defensive lineup in baseball??

Lee - good fielder

Walker - subpar

Nomah - just back from injury so don't expect much

Aram - subpar

Murton - ok I guess

Burnitz - worse fielding cf last year. Ever watch Edmonds steal doubles and triples to end rallies??

Lawton - subpar

Barrett - alright, I guess.

 

You gotta field, pitch and hit to win games. The Cubs would do 1 of the 3. People really overvalue Cub pitching. It's not that good. Whereas the Cubs are 5th or 6th in runs scored. The Cards are good for more reasons than they take walks and have Pujols. That team has a good defense, which helps the pitching.

[sporrer17]

Walker's ISOP is .174. Sammy Sosa's is .175. Todd Helton's is .174. Carlos Beltran? .168.

 

All three are having (statistically) their worst year in a LONG TIME. Not fair comparison, IMO. Sosa's career IsoP is .264, almost .100 higher than Walkers. Helton's is .270. Beltran's is .203....really you can't put Walker in this category until he at least gets it over .200, which all of them AVERAGE over their careers.

 

Walker's IsoP for his career is .150...it's only been over .200 twice...both when he was with the Rockies...*gasp*

 

He's had better power numbers this season than Corey Patterson

 

Once again, you pick out a guy like Patterson who's having his worst year of his career to compare him with. Patterson's is .166 for his career, so if you want to point that out as at least being comparible, that's fine. But don't use the stats of clearly superior power hitters (not referring to Corey, rather the previous 3) in down years for comparisons sake, it's unfair to them and it's misleading.

[Tracer Bullet]

Lineup I'd like to see-

 

Lawton-RF

Murton-LF

Lee-1B

Aram-3B

Burnitz-CF

Nomar-SS

Walker-2B

Barrett-C

 

 

What Clueless will probably do-

 

Lawton-RF

Nomar/Neifi-spitting time-SS

Lee-1B

Burnitz-CF

Aram-3B

Walker-2B

Holly-LF

Barrett-C

 

Would this be the worse defensive lineup in baseball??

Lee - good fielder

Walker - subpar

Nomah - just back from injury so don't expect much

Aram - subpar

Murton - ok I guess

Burnitz - worse fielding cf last year. Ever watch Edmonds steal doubles and triples to end rallies??

Lawton - subpar

Barrett - alright, I guess.

 

You gotta field, pitch and hit to win games. The Cubs would do 1 of the 3. People really overvalue Cub pitching. It's not that good. Whereas the Cubs are 5th or 6th in runs scored. The Cards are good for more reasons than they take walks and have Pujols. That team has a good defense, which helps the pitching.

 

So what's the alternative (this season)? Blanco for Barrett, Patterson in CF, Neifi for Nomar (Hairston for Walker? I really don't know which is better defensively). So are you advocating this:

 

Lawton - LF

Walker - 2B

Lee - 1B

ARam - 3B

Burnitz - RF

Patterson - CF

Neifi - SS

Blanco - C

P

 

Defense is important - but I don't think you run out 4 guys a night (including the P) who can't get on base more than 30% of the time. Sure, if we can upgrade defense and not lose much offense this winter - go for it. But if you have Nomar, Barrett, and Murton - I think you have to play them. The few runs saved by the 6-8 hitters above will be offset, imo, by their combined .280 OBP (that's an estimate, btw).

[frostwyrm]

With Lawton and Nomar there are some very solid batting orders available. It would take a real bonehead to come up with a bad one.

[cheapseats]

All three are having (statistically) their worst year in a LONG TIME. Not fair comparison, IMO. Sosa's career IsoP is .264, almost .100 higher than Walkers. Helton's is .270. Beltran's is .203....really you can't put Walker in this category until he at least gets it over .200, which all of them AVERAGE over their careers.

 

So when a manager makes out a lineup card, he should be informed by a player's career numbers rather than his current numbers? That's absurd. Current numbers are the only numbers that matter.

 

Sammy Sosa is exhibit A. Everyone in Chicago thought he should move down in the order last year. He saw himself as a 3 or 4 hitter based on what he had done over his career.

 

The fact of the matter is that Walker is hitting with more power than Helton, Sosa, or Beltran this year, whatever the reason.

 

Walker's IsoP for his career is .150...it's only been over .200 twice...both when he was with the Rockies...*gasp*

 

And it was .194 last year with the Cubs.

 

 

 

 

 

But don't use the stats of clearly superior power hitters (not referring to Corey, rather the previous 3) in down years for comparisons sake, it's unfair to them and it's misleading.

 

Let's not be ridiculous. Sosa, Helton, and Beltran could care less if I were being "unfair to them." And I'm not being misleading. This thread is about the Cubs' batting order, and I was responding to a poster who stated Walker has now power.

 

The fact of the matter is that Beltran has been the Mets 3 hitter all season long, but Walker has had better power this year. Todd Helton has been the Rockies 3 hitter all season long. The Orioles have hit Sosa in the 4 and 5 slots for most of the year.

 

Among MLB players with at least 175 atbats, Walker ranks in the top 41% as far as ISOP goes. 3 out of 5 everyday players hit with less power than Walker.

 

However you want to quantify it, Walker has above-average power.

 

The question is whether power should dictate a slot in the lineup. Research shows that batting order makes very little difference as to the number of runs a team scores. Batting order does make a difference as far as individual stats go - Derrek Lee would have more RBIs if he hadn't been hitting behind Patterson and Perez so often - but it doesn't affect team stats much at all.

 

If anything, a team wants its best hitters to get as many atbats as possible. That is why Dusty's 1-2 punch of Patterson and Perez was such a travesty.

 

Also, the batting order may not matter much, but the players in the lineup do matter. Every time Dusty plays Neifi over Nomar or Holly over anybody, he hurts the team's chance to win.

[WindyCity]

Here's my post-Nomar, post-Patterson lineup. (I think this will be upon us within the 10 days reported by Levine)

 

1 Lawton LF

2 Nomar SS

3 Lee 1B

4 Burnitz RF

5 Ramirez 3B

6 Walker 2B

7 Barrett C

8 Patterson CF

 

That's the everyday lineup I expect to see by mid-August. There will be some occasional tweaks -- like Lee and ARam batting back-to-back against a RHP (even though they should everyday).

 

If Dusty can get away from the strict L-R-L thing, I'd prefer to see this:

 

1 Lawton LF

2 Walker 2B

3 Lee 1B

4 Ramirez 3B

5 Burnitz RF

6 Nomar SS

7 Barrett C

8 Patterson CF