Lawton to Cubs for Gerut

[CubsWin]

have to plead ignorance, but I have to ask...

 

can Murton play center and if he can't, why not?

Probably some combination of experience, talent and athleticism. He exclusively played left field in West Tenn, if I'm not mistaken. Generally, managers play their worst defensive OFer in left and their best in center, so...

[Outshined_One]

have to plead ignorance, but I have to ask...

 

can Murton play center and if he can't, why not?

Probably some combination of experience, talent and athleticism. He exclusively played left field in West Tenn, if I'm not mistaken. Generally, managers play their worst defensive OFer in left and their best in center, so...

 

Murton saw plenty of time in LF and RF in West Tenn. Pie, Greenberg, Coats, and Bacon have seen the vast majority of CF duties this season.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Murton has a left field arm combined with the fact that he isn't exactly the greatest fielder in the world, not that he is horrible.

[Warren Brusstar]

Murton has a left field arm combined with the fact that he isn't exactly the greatest fielder in the world, not that he is horrible.

 

You're close to breaking the first rule of baseball message boards, which is that no player on the home team is "below average" defensively. According to the aggregate sum of MLB team message boards, 3/4ths of the players in the league are "gold glove caliber" or "above-average" defensively. The other 1/4 are "average, but clearly not below average."

 

See, e.g.

 

(1) this board's collective insistence that CPatt is "gold glove caliber," and

(2) this board's opinion that Walker, at worst, is a "league average" second baseman.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I never said below average. I said not the greatest yet not the worst. That would be average in my book. :)

 

Also, when Corey is right he definately is a gold glove caliber outfielder. I'm not commenting on Walker.

 

And if you want me to throw you a bone, Aramis is below average defensively, imo.

[1wizard]

And if you want me to throw you a bone, Aramis is below average defensively, imo.

 

Below average? I would have to disagree with you. Aram has really improved defensively and is average to slightly above average, IMHO. Overall, I would call ARam the best 3rd basemen in the National League this year. I would put him second to only ARod this year. His defense has been solid and he is starting to become a legitimate All Star with his bat.

[katway]

And if you want me to throw you a bone, Aramis is below average defensively, imo.

 

Below average? I would have to disagree with you. Aram has really improved defensively and is average to slightly above average, IMHO. Overall, I would call ARam the best 3rd basemen in the National League this year. I would put him second to only ARod this year. His defense has been solid and he is starting to become a legitimate All Star with his bat.

 

ARam does need to work on defense again. Last year he was solid. This year he is tied for 4th worst in the league with 13 errors. Several of those errors have taken place in recent games where he seems to be having a problem with his throw. Hopefully, he will iron that out and get back on track to how he was fielding last year. His groin problems may be keeping him from taking a good step into his throws.

[Roast]

And if you want me to throw you a bone, Aramis is below average defensively, imo.

 

Below average? I would have to disagree with you. Aram has really improved defensively and is average to slightly above average, IMHO. Overall, I would call ARam the best 3rd basemen in the National League this year. I would put him second to only ARod this year. His defense has been solid and he is starting to become a legitimate All Star with his bat.

 

ARam does need to work on defense again. Last year he was solid. This year he is tied for 4th worst in the league with 13 errors. Several of those errors have taken place in recent games where he seems to be having a problem with his throw. Hopefully, he will iron that out and get back on track to how he was fielding last year. His groin problems may be keeping him from taking a good step into his throws.

 

Yea. And alot of bad hops that he gobbled right up last year are playing him like a video game. I wonder what has changed....

[TheDude]

I have not read all the pages of this thread, so I have no idea if I am in the minority or the majority. But I think this is a horrible trade.

 

-The Cubs give up youth for a 33 year-old rental.

-The Cubs take on a ton of salary.

-This move does not take the Cubs from a .500 team to a .667 team (which is what is required from here to the end to take the wild card).

 

Ok, so Lawton has a higher OBP than Gerut. Big deal. You don't give up the inexpensive youth for an expensive veteran if you aren't going for broke. Basically, Hendry went half-way, which adds no value to this team long-term.

 

I'll root for Lawton, but I think this was a stupid trade.

[Roast]

.

 

-The Cubs give up youth for a 33 year-old rental.

-The Cubs take on a ton of salary.

-This move does not take the Cubs from a .500 team to a .667 team (which is what is required from here to the end to take the wild card).

 

Well, I was origionally not in favor of this trade either. Not so much because I didnt like it, but moreso because I wanted somebody bigger. Now that I've had a night to think of it, I really do like this deal. To answer some of your concerns.

 

- I doubt Lawton will simply be a rental. I could see him sticking around a few more years. And Gerut was young, big whoop. He had a good but (according to those who interpret stats such as babip better than I) insanely lucky year. And he hasnt come close to returning to those numbers.

 

- A ton of salary?? The pirates are giving us 1 million to go towards his salary. So, that takes it down to 6.5 million dollars. Thats hardly a ton.

 

- This move alone does not. But This combined with getting Nomar back in the lineup. And williamson and wood in the pen, that very well might.

 

The only thing that concerns me is his pre/post ASG splits. He is always very good the first half, and very bad teh second. But we will see. I still like the deal very much.

[TripJ]

And if you want me to throw you a bone, Aramis is below average defensively, imo.

 

Below average? I would have to disagree with you. Aram has really improved defensively and is average to slightly above average, IMHO. Overall, I would call ARam the best 3rd basemen in the National League this year. I would put him second to only ARod this year. His defense has been solid and he is starting to become a legitimate All Star with his bat.

 

ARam does need to work on defense again. Last year he was solid. This year he is tied for 4th worst in the league with 13 errors. Several of those errors have taken place in recent games where he seems to be having a problem with his throw. Hopefully, he will iron that out and get back on track to how he was fielding last year. His groin problems may be keeping him from taking a good step into his throws.

 

Yea. And alot of bad hops that he gobbled right up last year are playing him like a video game. I wonder what has changed....

 

Aramis HAS been beat up for much of the season, I wonder if that doesn't have something to do with his defensive struggles?

[Roast]

 

Aramis HAS been beat up for much of the season, I wonder if that doesn't have something to do with his defensive struggles?

 

Could be. But he was injured for a streatch last year and he was very solid at third.

[LoneStarCubFan]

This trade still doesn't change the fact that this is a .500 ballclub because it plays with no sense of urgency.

 

Championship caliber teams do not lay down like dogs and go 3-4 at home against crap teams like Arizona and San Francisco. What a disgrace. If they don't win at least eight of the next 10 this close to being a waste of a season is over.

 

Show us you have some heart boys.

[TheDude]

.

 

-The Cubs give up youth for a 33 year-old rental.

-The Cubs take on a ton of salary.

-This move does not take the Cubs from a .500 team to a .667 team (which is what is required from here to the end to take the wild card).

 

Well, I was origionally not in favor of this trade either. Not so much because I didnt like it, but moreso because I wanted somebody bigger. Now that I've had a night to think of it, I really do like this deal. To answer some of your concerns.

 

- I doubt Lawton will simply be a rental. I could see him sticking around a few more years. And Gerut was young, big whoop. He had a good but (according to those who interpret stats such as babip better than I) insanely lucky year. And he hasnt come close to returning to those numbers.

 

- A ton of salary?? The pirates are giving us 1 million to go towards his salary. So, that takes it down to 6.5 million dollars. Thats hardly a ton.

 

- This move alone does not. But This combined with getting Nomar back in the lineup. And williamson and wood in the pen, that very well might.

 

The only thing that concerns me is his pre/post ASG splits. He is always very good the first half, and very bad teh second. But we will see. I still like the deal very much.

But the bottom line for me is that this move doesn't take the Cubs to contender. And I don't believe relying on 3 injury comebacks does either. That is a huge longshot bet.

 

So even if Lawton is an upgrade right now, he doesn't make the club better for next year or beyond. Hendry needed to take a firm stance: seller or buyer. Make your run or look to next year. He did neither IMO. Now I am as big a Hendry supporter as anyone, but I think he blew it here.

 

Lawton turns 34 in November. If he sticks around for a few more years, how is that any better than the current Hollandsworth situation? The board will have a heart attack if Lawton takes playing time next year from any Cub farmhand, because all of them around here are the next coming of Andre.

 

So Lawton is a rental. LF and CF are almost assuredly available for a Cub kid to grab it in ST. Acquiring Lawton is completely lateral IMO.

[NCCubFan]

- A ton of salary?? The pirates are giving us 1 million to go towards his salary. So, that takes it down to 6.5 million dollars. Thats hardly a ton.

It really isn't even $6.5 million; it's less than a half year's prorated portion of that.

[Roast]

- A ton of salary?? The pirates are giving us 1 million to go towards his salary. So, that takes it down to 6.5 million dollars. Thats hardly a ton.

It really isn't even $6.5 million; it's less than a half year's prorated portion of that.

 

Sweet! :D

[RynoRules]

According to the Trib, the Pirates agreed to pick up some of Lawton's remaining salary(presumeably half), so its really less than 3 mill. Cubs probably owe him something like 1.5 mill for the rest of the season. That's not bad.

[Roast]

But the bottom line for me is that this move doesn't take the Cubs to contender. And I don't believe relying on 3 injury comebacks does either. That is a huge longshot bet.

 

So even if Lawton is an upgrade right now, he doesn't make the club better for next year or beyond. Hendry needed to take a firm stance: seller or buyer. Make your run or look to next year. He did neither IMO. Now I am as big a Hendry supporter as anyone, but I think he blew it here.

 

Lawton turns 34 in November. If he sticks around for a few more years, how is that any better than the current Hollandsworth situation? The board will have a heart attack if Lawton takes playing time next year from any Cub farmhand, because all of them around here are the next coming of Andre.

 

So Lawton is a rental. LF and CF are almost assuredly available for a Cub kid to grab it in ST. Acquiring Lawton is completely lateral IMO.

 

Why are you so firm in your beleif he will not resign?

 

Even if he does not come back, this deal most definatley gave us a bump in the playoff race. What teams around us did anything? Nobody.

 

Also, just about everybody from espn(not creadible) to Baseball Ameica(credible) is saying hendry made a great deal. I mean, we only gave up Jody Gerut. I'd rather see Matt Lawton take a job away from a cub farmhand then Jody Gerut.

[NCCubFan]

According to the Trib, the Pirates agreed to pick up some of Lawton's remaining salary(presumeably half), so its really less than 3 mill. Cubs probably owe him something like 1.5 mill for the rest of the season. That's not bad.

It's probably just a little over $2.5 million for the rest of the season. There's just a little over 1/3 of the season remaining (the Cubs are three games short of being exactly at the 2/3 mark). Subtract the $1 million received from Pittsburgh, and your $1.5 million figure is very close.

[erik316wttn]

This trade still doesn't change the fact that this is a .500 ballclub because it plays with no sense of urgency.

 

Championship caliber teams do not lay down like dogs and go 3-4 at home against crap teams like Arizona and San Francisco. What a disgrace. If they don't win at least eight of the next 10 this close to being a waste of a season is over.

 

Show us you have some heart boys.

 

But Dusty is a master motivator!! Don't you know that?? He always gets his guys to play hard for him!!! :roll: :roll:

[dalgreen]

.

 

-The Cubs give up youth for a 33 year-old rental.

-The Cubs take on a ton of salary.

-This move does not take the Cubs from a .500 team to a .667 team (which is what is required from here to the end to take the wild card).

 

Well, I was origionally not in favor of this trade either. Not so much because I didnt like it, but moreso because I wanted somebody bigger. Now that I've had a night to think of it, I really do like this deal. To answer some of your concerns.

 

 

If you wanted someone bigger, were you ready to give up somebody big? For example, Hill, Pie, Murton, Harvey, etc? That's why I didn't want a big deal. The only way a big deal was going to be done is if 1) we gave up top tier prospects, or 2) get a high priced big time player whose team is looking to get rid of money. Either way, I didn't want to go.

[erik316wttn]

Essentially this deal is Dubois for Lawton. Not too bad, IMO.

[dalgreen]

This trade still doesn't change the fact that this is a .500 ballclub because it plays with no sense of urgency.

 

Championship caliber teams do not lay down like dogs and go 3-4 at home against crap teams like Arizona and San Francisco. What a disgrace. If they don't win at least eight of the next 10 this close to being a waste of a season is over.

 

Show us you have some heart boys.

 

I think this team is an enigma. You can't say it's not a good team and you can't say it's a bad team, either. Which team is it? The one that beat the White Sox and Red Sox and Cardinals two out of three and swept the Marlins? Or the one that has lost seven in row, eight in a row and got swept by the Nationals and lost three of four to the D-backs?

[Roast]

.

 

-The Cubs give up youth for a 33 year-old rental.

-The Cubs take on a ton of salary.

-This move does not take the Cubs from a .500 team to a .667 team (which is what is required from here to the end to take the wild card).

 

Well, I was origionally not in favor of this trade either. Not so much because I didnt like it, but moreso because I wanted somebody bigger. Now that I've had a night to think of it, I really do like this deal. To answer some of your concerns.

 

 

If you wanted someone bigger, were you ready to give up somebody big? For example, Hill, Pie, Murton, Harvey, etc? That's why I didn't want a big deal. The only way a big deal was going to be done is if 1) we gave up top tier prospects, or 2) get a high priced big time player whose team is looking to get rid of money. Either way, I didn't want to go.

 

Hill, Murton, Harvey, etc. Yes.

Pie, No.

 

And no kidding you'd have to get a high priced big time player from a team who was looking to get rid of money. Thats how most big players are moved. I would much rather see Adam Dunn patrolling left then Matt Lawton in center/left. However, I am still very happy with what we got.

[TheDude]

.

 

-The Cubs give up youth for a 33 year-old rental.

-The Cubs take on a ton of salary.

-This move does not take the Cubs from a .500 team to a .667 team (which is what is required from here to the end to take the wild card).

 

Well, I was origionally not in favor of this trade either. Not so much because I didnt like it, but moreso because I wanted somebody bigger. Now that I've had a night to think of it, I really do like this deal. To answer some of your concerns.

 

 

If you wanted someone bigger, were you ready to give up somebody big? For example, Hill, Pie, Murton, Harvey, etc? That's why I didn't want a big deal. The only way a big deal was going to be done is if 1) we gave up top tier prospects, or 2) get a high priced big time player whose team is looking to get rid of money. Either way, I didn't want to go.

I would have given up Hill (in a package) to get Dunn, but only Dunn. Youth for youth, exchange of needs.

 

Keep Pie at all costs.