Gut feeling

[NorthsideAvenger]

Jerome Williams has averaged 5.1 IP per start in 05. Hill has made 1 start and last 5 innings, with his average of a little more then 2 IP per outing. Does THAT not concern anybody? We have two guys who are going to taxed the bullpen in a hurry unless they start pitching deep in the game.

 

With Hendry, you never know who he is ACTUALLY targeting until the deal is announced, but is it me, or is today's start by Hill can alter what the Cubs do at the deadlne? I get the feeling the Cubs want/need Rusch in the pen as the 2nd lefty. The feeling I get, is that Hendry is targeting a starting pitcher (no basis, but considering the Cubs have two young pitchers who can barely average 5 innings per start), and I believe they don't trust Mitre in a WC race.

 

Call me crazy, but I believe the Cubs are going to acquire another starting pitcher.

[imb]

Hill has had a whole 1 start in the major leagues. Maybe you should give him more time before you decide how many innings he is good for.

 

Most 1, 2 and 3 starters average between 6 and 7 IP/GS, I'd imagine most back of the rotation guys actually do average between 5 and 6 IP/GS.

[10man]

Jerome Williams has actually averaged 6+ innings in his starts for the Cubs.

[Jazz]

these 2 guys could both be solid middle of the rotations pitchers for us, and yes i agree with u that his start today could have an impact on the upcoming deals, but id like JH to hold on to williams, then hill until it is a dealbreaker

[rawaction]

I think Williams is the best bargaining chip the Cubs have. He's had ML success in a pennant race or 2. He has playoff experience. But trading him gives the Cubs much more leverage in a deal. The things I mentioned earlier could be valuable to teams like Texas, Boston, Cincinnati, or Tampa Bay. And being that Williams wasn't in the system when the season started is like having a free arm to trade.

[TruffleShuffle]

I think Williams is the best bargaining chip the Cubs have. He's had ML success in a pennant race or 2. He has playoff experience. But trading him gives the Cubs much more leverage in a deal. The things I mentioned earlier could be valuable to teams like Texas, Boston, Cincinnati, or Tampa Bay. And being that Williams wasn't in the system when the season started is like having a free arm to trade.

 

Yes he's a good bargaining chip, but why trade a guy who has been a better than average pitcher in the big leagues at ages 21/22 for someone like Soriano, who doesn't address the team's main offensive flaw and is going to require a truckload of money to be resigned? If it's someone like Dunn that's another story. I won't even get into the Manny Ramirez thing because the financial issues are one big stumbling block, as well as the fact that the Red Sox absolutely will not trade him if it makes them much weaker the rest of this year.

[RynoRules]

That's some pretty good reasoning. If we did not have the injuries that we do in the rotation, he might be a good chip to use.

[rawaction]

That's some pretty good reasoning. If we did not have the injuries that we do in the rotation, he might be a good chip to use.

 

What's wrong with Mitre and Rusch? Both are much better in a starting role. Both were doing pretty well when they got moved to the pen. If you assume Wood and Williamson in the pen...at least one of those guys will be in the minors anyway (Mitre). The Cubs still have rotation depth with or without Wood.

[dacheezwhiz]

the first guy i would like to be traded is mitre. He seems to have reached his peak...a dissapointing one. However, i believe he does have some value throughout the league. I think we could pull off a deal maybe with seattle for gil meche who is in a similar situatiom. God that hawkins deal was a total bust for nus :wink:

[NorthsideAvenger]

Hill has had a whole 1 start in the major leagues. Maybe you should give him more time before you decide how many innings he is good for.

 

Most 1, 2 and 3 starters average between 6 and 7 IP/GS, I'd imagine most back of the rotation guys actually do average between 5 and 6 IP/GS.

 

Hill also AVERAGED a little more then 6.1 IP in the minors. This is a not NEW thing. The Cubs need pitchers who can eat innings. And with today's OUTING by Maddux, the Cubs now have three starters who can barely go 5 innings. So, if you don't think the Cubs shouldn't be concern about Hill's (Maddux and Williams) inability to go deep into a game CONSISTANTLY, then you are overlooking a problem.

 

I like Hill, but his stamina tells me, he is a middle reliever dressed up as a starter. You can't have three guys in the rotation, barely giving you 5 IPs per start, you taxed the bullpen TOO quick. And ignoring the problem won't go away.

[imb]

Hill has had a whole 1 start in the major leagues. Maybe you should give him more time before you decide how many innings he is good for.

 

Most 1, 2 and 3 starters average between 6 and 7 IP/GS, I'd imagine most back of the rotation guys actually do average between 5 and 6 IP/GS.

 

Hill also AVERAGED a little more then 6.1 IP in the minors. This is a not NEW thing. The Cubs need pitchers who can eat innings. And with today's OUTING by Maddux, the Cubs now have three starters who can barely go 5 innings. So, if you don't think the Cubs shouldn't be concern about Hill's (Maddux and Williams) inability to go deep into a game CONSISTANTLY, then you are overlooking a problem.

 

I like Hill, but his stamina tells me, he is a middle reliever dressed up as a starter. You can't have three guys in the rotation, barely giving you 5 IPs per start, you taxed the bullpen TOO quick. And ignoring the problem won't go away.

 

Again, most back of the rotation guys go 5 to 6 innings on average. Once Hill gets a little more comfortable, he'll start to lower his pitch counts. If not, good thing we're adding Wood and Williamson to the bullpen.

[MPrior]

I know it's already been pointed out, but the one thing that Williams HAS done for us consistently so far is go 6-7 innings. His last start was less than 6, but that was the first time that's happened. So to say that we have three guys who can't go six innings is a bit of an overstatement - yes, Maddux does have to leave early every once in a while (and he cannot handle Luis Gonzalez, for whatever reason), but he also goes deep his fair share of the time. I think we can rely on Williams for 6-7 innings on average, which isn't bad. And Hill probably does use too many pitches to get the job done, which means he probably won't go deep all too often, but he went six this last time out, which is an improvement over his first - he may continue that trend once he settles down a little.

[abuck1220]

Hill has had a whole 1 start in the major leagues. Maybe you should give him more time before you decide how many innings he is good for.

 

Most 1, 2 and 3 starters average between 6 and 7 IP/GS, I'd imagine most back of the rotation guys actually do average between 5 and 6 IP/GS.

 

Hill also AVERAGED a little more then 6.1 IP in the minors. This is a not NEW thing. The Cubs need pitchers who can eat innings. And with today's OUTING by Maddux, the Cubs now have three starters who can barely go 5 innings. So, if you don't think the Cubs shouldn't be concern about Hill's (Maddux and Williams) inability to go deep into a game CONSISTANTLY, then you are overlooking a problem.

 

I like Hill, but his stamina tells me, he is a middle reliever dressed up as a starter. You can't have three guys in the rotation, barely giving you 5 IPs per start, you taxed the bullpen TOO quick. And ignoring the problem won't go away.

 

6 1/3+ per outing isn't good? who do you want out there, bob feller?

 

and hasn't williams gone 6+ in five of his six starts?

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I think Williams is the best bargaining chip the Cubs have. He's had ML success in a pennant race or 2. He has playoff experience. But trading him gives the Cubs much more leverage in a deal. The things I mentioned earlier could be valuable to teams like Texas, Boston, Cincinnati, or Tampa Bay. And being that Williams wasn't in the system when the season started is like having a free arm to trade.

Why do you want to trade Williams so badly? I have seen you mention wanting to trade him several other times. Just because he is a free arm to trade doesn't mean we have to trade him. As much as I like Sergio, I would much rather have Williams pitching for the Cubs. He is two years younger and has more experience than Sergio at the major league level, as you have mentioned. I think that we can use a 23 year old pitcher that has a pretty bright future as much as any other club in the leauge.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Hill has had a whole 1 start in the major leagues. Maybe you should give him more time before you decide how many innings he is good for.

 

Most 1, 2 and 3 starters average between 6 and 7 IP/GS, I'd imagine most back of the rotation guys actually do average between 5 and 6 IP/GS.

 

Hill also AVERAGED a little more then 6.1 IP in the minors. This is a not NEW thing. The Cubs need pitchers who can eat innings. And with today's OUTING by Maddux, the Cubs now have three starters who can barely go 5 innings. So, if you don't think the Cubs shouldn't be concern about Hill's (Maddux and Williams) inability to go deep into a game CONSISTANTLY, then you are overlooking a problem.

 

I like Hill, but his stamina tells me, he is a middle reliever dressed up as a starter. You can't have three guys in the rotation, barely giving you 5 IPs per start, you taxed the bullpen TOO quick. And ignoring the problem won't go away.

 

6 1/3+ per outing isn't good? who do you want out there, bob feller?

 

and hasn't williams gone 6+ in five of

his six starts?

 

 

Pitching strong into the 6th inning, and pitching the 6th inning are NOT the same thing. Barry Zito just had an outing in which he went 7 innings, but gave 5 ERs. Do you call that a "quality start?" No.

 

6.1 IP/start is ONLY good if he does it consistantly. Pitching say 6 here, 3 there, 8 here, 2.1---for example---is not what I would consider consistant. I like Hill and Williams, alot, and I think people are misreading what I am trying to say. Maddux is barely getting 5 innings, but he has an excuse...he is 39 yr old finese pitcher. Hill/Williams have to put together consistant quality starts, and considering the Cubs have this "on again/off again" split personality about the playoffs, I don't think you can trust THREE pitches only going 5, maybe a weak 6 innings, during a postseason run. I hope they prove me wrong.