Boston Looking for a Left-Handed Hitting OF

[USSoccer]

Again, seller is the wrong term IMO and I'll just stick with "Making the team better" from now on.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable term. My point is that I believe it is extremely unlikely that trading Burnitz, et al is going to make the team better. Have discussions, make inquiries, field offers? Sure.

 

Making the team better IMO is something that can last for more than one year. Burnitz has this year and maybe next year to excell and IMO he's a Gietti (sp) waiting to happen. I think if the Cubs get a solid offer (very good 22-25 year old player) or in a package for a Manny Ramirez type hitter it would make them a better team now AND in the future.

 

I can't imagine Theo Epstein doing a deal to get rid of ManRam and replacing him with Burnitz unless the Cubs threw in other stuff to make the Red Sox better this year, including Walker, possibly Williams, and Dempster. The Sox want to win now, and going from Ramirez to Burnitz is not the way to do that.

 

I'm almost positive someone else suggested this, but what if the Reds get involved:

 

Cubs get: Manny, David Weathers + $10M

Sox get: Dunn and Mercker

Reds get: Hanley Ramirez, Shoppach, Leicester, Hill and Mitre.

 

I think that's reasonably fair

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Again, seller is the wrong term IMO and I'll just stick with "Making the team better" from now on.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable term. My point is that I believe it is extremely unlikely that trading Burnitz, et al is going to make the team better. Have discussions, make inquiries, field offers? Sure.

 

Making the team better IMO is something that can last for more than one year. Burnitz has this year and maybe next year to excell and IMO he's a Gietti (sp) waiting to happen. I think if the Cubs get a solid offer (very good 22-25 year old player) or in a package for a Manny Ramirez type hitter it would make them a better team now AND in the future.

 

I can't imagine Theo Epstein doing a deal to get rid of ManRam and replacing him with Burnitz unless the Cubs threw in other stuff to make the Red Sox better this year, including Walker, possibly Williams, and Dempster. The Sox want to win now, and going from Ramirez to Burnitz is not the way to do that.

 

I'm almost positive someone else suggested this, but what if the Reds get involved:

 

Cubs get: Manny, David Weathers + $10M

Sox get: Dunn and Mercker

Reds get: Hanley Ramirez, Shoppach, Leicester, Hill and Mitre.

 

I think that's reasonably fair

 

I say that if the Cubs sent Gerut to Boston, and we got salary relief past this year, that would be a pretty good deal.

[USSoccer]

Again, seller is the wrong term IMO and I'll just stick with "Making the team better" from now on.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable term. My point is that I believe it is extremely unlikely that trading Burnitz, et al is going to make the team better. Have discussions, make inquiries, field offers? Sure.

 

Making the team better IMO is something that can last for more than one year. Burnitz has this year and maybe next year to excell and IMO he's a Gietti (sp) waiting to happen. I think if the Cubs get a solid offer (very good 22-25 year old player) or in a package for a Manny Ramirez type hitter it would make them a better team now AND in the future.

 

I can't imagine Theo Epstein doing a deal to get rid of ManRam and replacing him with Burnitz unless the Cubs threw in other stuff to make the Red Sox better this year, including Walker, possibly Williams, and Dempster. The Sox want to win now, and going from Ramirez to Burnitz is not the way to do that.

 

I'm almost positive someone else suggested this, but what if the Reds get involved:

 

Cubs get: Manny, David Weathers + $10M

Sox get: Dunn and Mercker

Reds get: Hanley Ramirez, Shoppach, Leicester, Hill and Mitre.

 

I think that's reasonably fair

 

I say that if the Cubs sent Gerut to Boston, and we got salary relief past this year, that would be a pretty good deal.

 

Can we send Hollandsworth instead of Gerut? :D

[CuseCubFan69]

Again, seller is the wrong term IMO and I'll just stick with "Making the team better" from now on.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable term. My point is that I believe it is extremely unlikely that trading Burnitz, et al is going to make the team better. Have discussions, make inquiries, field offers? Sure.

 

Making the team better IMO is something that can last for more than one year. Burnitz has this year and maybe next year to excell and IMO he's a Gietti (sp) waiting to happen. I think if the Cubs get a solid offer (very good 22-25 year old player) or in a package for a Manny Ramirez type hitter it would make them a better team now AND in the future.

 

I can't imagine Theo Epstein doing a deal to get rid of ManRam and replacing him with Burnitz unless the Cubs threw in other stuff to make the Red Sox better this year, including Walker, possibly Williams, and Dempster. The Sox want to win now, and going from Ramirez to Burnitz is not the way to do that.

 

I never meant it to be a one for one trade as I said "package" for Manny. I think that Hendry could get very creative in a deal like this.

[bmkhawk]

Again, seller is the wrong term IMO and I'll just stick with "Making the team better" from now on.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable term. My point is that I believe it is extremely unlikely that trading Burnitz, et al is going to make the team better. Have discussions, make inquiries, field offers? Sure.

 

Making the team better IMO is something that can last for more than one year. Burnitz has this year and maybe next year to excell and IMO he's a Gietti (sp) waiting to happen. I think if the Cubs get a solid offer (very good 22-25 year old player) or in a package for a Manny Ramirez type hitter it would make them a better team now AND in the future.

 

I can't imagine Theo Epstein doing a deal to get rid of ManRam and replacing him with Burnitz unless the Cubs threw in other stuff to make the Red Sox better this year, including Walker, possibly Williams, and Dempster. The Sox want to win now, and going from Ramirez to Burnitz is not the way to do that.

 

I'm almost positive someone else suggested this, but what if the Reds get involved:

 

Cubs get: Manny, David Weathers + $10M

Sox get: Dunn and Mercker

Reds get: Hanley Ramirez, Shoppach, Leicester, Hill and Mitre.

 

I think that's reasonably fair

 

I say that if the Cubs sent Gerut to Boston, and we got salary relief past this year, that would be a pretty good deal.

 

Can we send Hollandsworth instead of Gerut? :D

 

??? Just last week you said Gerut wasn't any better than Hollandsworth.

[USSoccer]

Again, seller is the wrong term IMO and I'll just stick with "Making the team better" from now on.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable term. My point is that I believe it is extremely unlikely that trading Burnitz, et al is going to make the team better. Have discussions, make inquiries, field offers? Sure.

 

Making the team better IMO is something that can last for more than one year. Burnitz has this year and maybe next year to excell and IMO he's a Gietti (sp) waiting to happen. I think if the Cubs get a solid offer (very good 22-25 year old player) or in a package for a Manny Ramirez type hitter it would make them a better team now AND in the future.

 

I can't imagine Theo Epstein doing a deal to get rid of ManRam and replacing him with Burnitz unless the Cubs threw in other stuff to make the Red Sox better this year, including Walker, possibly Williams, and Dempster. The Sox want to win now, and going from Ramirez to Burnitz is not the way to do that.

 

I'm almost positive someone else suggested this, but what if the Reds get involved:

 

Cubs get: Manny, David Weathers + $10M

Sox get: Dunn and Mercker

Reds get: Hanley Ramirez, Shoppach, Leicester, Hill and Mitre.

 

I think that's reasonably fair

 

I say that if the Cubs sent Gerut to Boston, and we got salary relief past this year, that would be a pretty good deal.

 

Can we send Hollandsworth instead of Gerut? :D

 

??? Just last week you said Gerut wasn't any better than Hollandsworth.

 

I still think that. However, I think our team would benefit more by having Hollandsworth not on it (although a Manny trade makes him starting at LF unlikely to say the least), and since Boston would likely want a good LH pinch hitter, Holla makes sense for them to want.

[bmkhawk]

Man, if you honestly think that...wow...I am not sure what we would ever agree on.

[USSoccer]

Man, if you honestly think that...wow...I am not sure what we would ever agree on.

 

If I honestly think what? That Hollandsworth is a PH that Boston would want, or that the team would be better if he weren't on it?

 

If it's the latter, here's my line of reasoning: Currently, Hollandsworth is not being used in the manner he's best in. He's a very good PH. He's not an everyday OF. If Dusty keeps using him everyday, we'll suffer as a team. It's not so much a comment on Todd's skills as a comment on Dusty's habits.

 

Now, if we trade for Manny (doubtful), Boston might want a 4th OF. A LH bat of the bench with experience for the stretch run. That's not Gerut. So, if Hollandsowrth helps us get Manny (doubtful), he's certainly worth parting with.

 

Either way, Holla not on the team helps the team. Dusty will continue to run him out there without a more...veteran obvious solution, so if he weren't on the roster as currently constructed, Murton would play everyday, and at the least he makes contact and can take a walk. If we can trade for Manny (doubtful) and Holla helps seal the deal, he also helps us by not being there.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Man, if you honestly think that...wow...I am not sure what we would ever agree on.

 

If I honestly think what? That Hollandsworth is a PH that Boston would want, or that the team would be better if he weren't on it?

 

If it's the latter, here's my line of reasoning: Currently, Hollandsworth is not being used in the manner he's best in. He's a very good PH. He's not an everyday OF. If Dusty keeps using him everyday, we'll suffer as a team. It's not so much a comment on Todd's skills as a comment on Dusty's habits.

 

Now, if we trade for Manny (doubtful), Boston might want a 4th OF. A LH bat of the bench with experience for the stretch run. That's not Gerut. So, if Hollandsowrth helps us get Manny (doubtful), he's certainly worth parting with.

 

Either way, Holla not on the team helps the team. Dusty will continue to run him out there without a more...veteran obvious solution, so if he weren't on the roster as currently constructed, Murton would play everyday, and at the least he makes contact and can take a walk. If we can trade for Manny (doubtful) and Holla helps seal the deal, he also helps us by not being there.

 

I agree with your sentiment, but if they deal Manny, don't they need a 3rd OF?

[bmkhawk]

No. That Gerut isn't any better than Hollandsworth.

[USSoccer]

No. That Gerut isn't any better than Hollandsworth.

 

Most of my original argument centered around the fact that, statistically, he's no better or worse than Ben Grieve, but Holla, Grieve and Gerut are all pretty much comparable.

 

Gerut is better defensively when healthy, Grieve more patient and Holla technically has more power than all 3, and has PH experience.

 

At this point in the year, though, Gerut is certainly a beter option than Todd is.

[texascub]

I think that it would be interesting if we could acquire Soriano from Texas then flip him to Boston along with Burnitz. We give up 2 mid level prospects (or one and CPatt) for Soriano. Then we trade Soriano and Burnitz to Boston for something like Mike Myers, Kelly Shoppach, Dustin Pedroia, and a lower level prospect. It isn't totally giving up on this year IMO but at the same time we're adding alot for next year. Shoppach could come in next year to play catcher. Barrett is still good but Shoppach is 4 years younger and offers a little more offense and defense. Pedroia should be ready by next year to take over 2B for Walker, who's contract expires after this year. Myers would be a valuable lefty in the pen down the stretch this year as well.

 

Any opinions?

 

Edit: Forgot about the money factor for Boston. Soriano signed a one-year deal to avoid arbitration this year and has less then $4 mil left on it at this point. The Rangers may pick up a small part in the deal to the Cubs. The Cubs might need to pick up a small part of his contract but I don't see it being too big of a piece. Burnitz also has a one-year contract and is owed less than $2.5 mil at this point. I could see us eating a small part of this year's contract and offering to pay the $0.5 mil buy-out for next year's $7 mil team option but that is it.

[katway]

I think that it would be interesting if we could acquire Soriano from Texas then flip him to Boston along with Burnitz. We give up 2 mid level prospects (or one and CPatt) for Soriano. Then we trade Soriano and Burnitz to Boston for something like Mike Myers, Kelly Shoppach, Dustin Pedroia, and a lower level prospect. It isn't totally giving up on this year IMO but at the same time we're adding alot for next year. Shoppach could come in next year to play catcher. Barrett is still good but Shoppach is 4 years younger and offers a little more offense and defense. Pedroia should be ready by next year to take over 2B for Walker, who's contract expires after this year. Myers would be a valuable lefty in the pen down the stretch this year as well.

 

Any opinions?

 

Edit: Forgot about the money factor for Boston. Soriano signed a one-year deal to avoid arbitration this year and has less then $4 mil left on it at this point. The Rangers may pick up a small part in the deal to the Cubs. The Cubs might need to pick up a small part of his contract but I don't see it being too big of a piece. Burnitz also has a one-year contract and is owed less than $2.5 mil at this point. I could see us eating a small part of this year's contract and offering to pay the $0.5 mil buy-out for next year's $7 mil team option but that is it.

 

Unfortunately, Epstein has been very reluctant to trade Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia. For good reason, they are both excellent prospects. Shoppach is going to be a good catcher and is known to have leadership skills. Pedroia is a good solid second baseman prospect that appears ready and would have been called up to replace Bellhorn earlier if not for a wrist injury. But, they may very well need to trade Pedroia and move top prospect Hanley Ramirez (a shortstop) over to second since they already have Renteria at short. However, the proposed trade would clearly be a rental player move from Boston's perspective since they wouldn't keep Soriano (Ramirez needs to play in the bigs and they prefer him as an infielder) and I don't see them paying that much for rental players.

[BigbadB]

I think that it would be interesting if we could acquire Soriano from Texas then flip him to Boston along with Burnitz. We give up 2 mid level prospects (or one and CPatt) for Soriano. Then we trade Soriano and Burnitz to Boston for something like Mike Myers, Kelly Shoppach, Dustin Pedroia, and a lower level prospect. It isn't totally giving up on this year IMO but at the same time we're adding alot for next year. Shoppach could come in next year to play catcher. Barrett is still good but Shoppach is 4 years younger and offers a little more offense and defense. Pedroia should be ready by next year to take over 2B for Walker, who's contract expires after this year. Myers would be a valuable lefty in the pen down the stretch this year as well.

 

Any opinions?

 

Edit: Forgot about the money factor for Boston. Soriano signed a one-year deal to avoid arbitration this year and has less then $4 mil left on it at this point. The Rangers may pick up a small part in the deal to the Cubs. The Cubs might need to pick up a small part of his contract but I don't see it being too big of a piece. Burnitz also has a one-year contract and is owed less than $2.5 mil at this point. I could see us eating a small part of this year's contract and offering to pay the $0.5 mil buy-out for next year's $7 mil team option but that is it.

 

You also forgot who manages this Cubs team. Until they have a manager who will play the kids, you would be wasting time trading vets for more kids.

[texascub]

I think that it would be interesting if we could acquire Soriano from Texas then flip him to Boston along with Burnitz. We give up 2 mid level prospects (or one and CPatt) for Soriano. Then we trade Soriano and Burnitz to Boston for something like Mike Myers, Kelly Shoppach, Dustin Pedroia, and a lower level prospect. It isn't totally giving up on this year IMO but at the same time we're adding alot for next year. Shoppach could come in next year to play catcher. Barrett is still good but Shoppach is 4 years younger and offers a little more offense and defense. Pedroia should be ready by next year to take over 2B for Walker, who's contract expires after this year. Myers would be a valuable lefty in the pen down the stretch this year as well.

 

Any opinions?

 

Edit: Forgot about the money factor for Boston. Soriano signed a one-year deal to avoid arbitration this year and has less then $4 mil left on it at this point. The Rangers may pick up a small part in the deal to the Cubs. The Cubs might need to pick up a small part of his contract but I don't see it being too big of a piece. Burnitz also has a one-year contract and is owed less than $2.5 mil at this point. I could see us eating a small part of this year's contract and offering to pay the $0.5 mil buy-out for next year's $7 mil team option but that is it.

 

Unfortunately, Epstein has been very reluctant to trade Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia. For good reason, they are both excellent prospects. Shoppach is going to be a good catcher and is known to have leadership skills. Pedroia is a good solid second baseman prospect that appears ready and would have been called up to replace Bellhorn earlier if not for a wrist injury. But, they may very well need to trade Pedroia and move top prospect Hanley Ramirez (a shortstop) over to second since they already have Renteria at short. However, the proposed trade would clearly be a rental player move from Boston's perspective since they wouldn't keep Soriano (Ramirez needs to play in the bigs and they prefer him as an infielder) and I don't see them paying that much for rental players.

 

I've actually heard that Epstein has been actively shopping Shoppach because Varitek is locked up through '08. I know that he has been reluctant to trade Pedroia but I think he is trade-able; it all depends on how much they want to have post-season success again this year. Trot is down, they are getting very little production from 2B, and Manny might get traded. Burnitz has an option for next year so that helps RF for them and if they can sign Soriano to an extension they'd still have a pretty potent lineup. Also, during the MLB Futures Game they kept talking about Hanley Ramirez moving to CF if Damon is gone after this year. They said that Ramirez is an incredible natural athlete and that he played there some during ST and actually looked pretty good.

[imb]

Again, seller is the wrong term IMO and I'll just stick with "Making the team better" from now on.

 

That's a perfectly acceptable term. My point is that I believe it is extremely unlikely that trading Burnitz, et al is going to make the team better. Have discussions, make inquiries, field offers? Sure.

 

Making the team better IMO is something that can last for more than one year. Burnitz has this year and maybe next year to excell and IMO he's a Gietti (sp) waiting to happen. I think if the Cubs get a solid offer (very good 22-25 year old player) or in a package for a Manny Ramirez type hitter it would make them a better team now AND in the future.

 

I can't imagine Theo Epstein doing a deal to get rid of ManRam and replacing him with Burnitz unless the Cubs threw in other stuff to make the Red Sox better this year, including Walker, possibly Williams, and Dempster. The Sox want to win now, and going from Ramirez to Burnitz is not the way to do that.

 

I'm almost positive someone else suggested this, but what if the Reds get involved:

 

Cubs get: Manny, David Weathers + $10M

Sox get: Dunn and Mercker

Reds get: Hanley Ramirez, Shoppach, Leicester, Hill and Mitre.

 

I think that's reasonably fair

 

I say that if the Cubs sent Gerut to Boston, and we got salary relief past this year, that would be a pretty good deal.

 

Can we send Hollandsworth instead of Gerut? :D

 

??? Just last week you said Gerut wasn't any better than Hollandsworth.

 

Do you ever offer up anything of your own, or do you show up to contradict other people? It's cute and all, I was just wondering.

[frostwyrm]

Between Grieve/Gerut/Hollandworth someone has to go. These guys are way too similar. My preference is to move Holla because if Murton stumbles Dusty won't be able to resist giving Holla yet another chance. Also, with Nomar's return Neifi is expendable, which of course he always was anyway. Holla and Neifi have been a pair of concrete galoshes and their immediate disappearance would make the Cubs better overnight. I'd trade them both for a bag of air.

[Larry Horse]

I'd trade them both for a bag of air.

 

The bag of air is Dusty.

[texascub]

I think that it would be interesting if we could acquire Soriano from Texas then flip him to Boston along with Burnitz. We give up 2 mid level prospects (or one and CPatt) for Soriano. Then we trade Soriano and Burnitz to Boston for something like Mike Myers, Kelly Shoppach, Dustin Pedroia, and a lower level prospect. It isn't totally giving up on this year IMO but at the same time we're adding alot for next year. Shoppach could come in next year to play catcher. Barrett is still good but Shoppach is 4 years younger and offers a little more offense and defense. Pedroia should be ready by next year to take over 2B for Walker, who's contract expires after this year. Myers would be a valuable lefty in the pen down the stretch this year as well.

 

Any opinions?

 

Edit: Forgot about the money factor for Boston. Soriano signed a one-year deal to avoid arbitration this year and has less then $4 mil left on it at this point. The Rangers may pick up a small part in the deal to the Cubs. The Cubs might need to pick up a small part of his contract but I don't see it being too big of a piece. Burnitz also has a one-year contract and is owed less than $2.5 mil at this point. I could see us eating a small part of this year's contract and offering to pay the $0.5 mil buy-out for next year's $7 mil team option but that is it.

 

Unfortunately, Epstein has been very reluctant to trade Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia. For good reason, they are both excellent prospects. Shoppach is going to be a good catcher and is known to have leadership skills. Pedroia is a good solid second baseman prospect that appears ready and would have been called up to replace Bellhorn earlier if not for a wrist injury. But, they may very well need to trade Pedroia and move top prospect Hanley Ramirez (a shortstop) over to second since they already have Renteria at short. However, the proposed trade would clearly be a rental player move from Boston's perspective since they wouldn't keep Soriano (Ramirez needs to play in the bigs and they prefer him as an infielder) and I don't see them paying that much for rental players.

 

Right now it doesn't appear as though Epstein is too hesitant to trade Shoppach. He has been mentioned in the 3-way trade between the Sox, Rays, and Mets and he was also almost traded to the Rockies along with OF Adam Stern before the deal fell apart when it was pending approval from Boston's ownership.

[ThePenguin11]

TexasCub's right. Epstein nearly traded Shoppach for - and get this - Larry Bigbie. Ick. The trade was pending Ownership approval and was turned down but Colorado got Bigbie for the Sox anyway and is stuck with him now. And boy are the Rockies pissed.

[texascub]

Yep, sad thing is that Epstein was actually going to throw in a decent OF prospect as well. The way that Epstein overly persues trades, I'm kind of surprised that he gets as good of a return value as he does in most trades.