Would Abreu be worth Zambrano?

[JC]

Now, I don't think this is ever going to happen. But, I will give props to Tim who has been jocking Abreu for some time. Perhaps Goony has too. Anyway, last nights exhibition has made me a believer. Not that he is a good player, but that he could be a GREAT player in the not too distant future. He hasn't yet ascended to that Bonds/Pujols level yet, but I think last night provided the last bit of evidence I need to conclude that he will.

 

There aren't many people I'd consider giving up for Zambrano, but in light of the other arms in the system and our OF situation, I'd swap him for Bobby. While it was only a HR derby, the opportunity to watch his swing more than three of four times in a game showed me a guy that is confident, patient, and generates power while maintaining a smooth, comfortable swing.

 

Wow.

 

(BTW, Miguel Cabrera was about as annoying as a swarm of gnats during that whole derby.)

 

EDIT: I didn't know Abreu was 31. I thought he was 29 from a comment made last night. That would cause me a little more pause and perhaps a little deal tweaking.

Edited July 12, 2005 by JC

[Schwarber Fan]

Someone plz slap on a question mark I thought this was an official deal (even though its unlikely)

 

 

And I agree about the Cabrera thing... gees he was like fingernails on a chalkboard.

[goonys evil twin]

Now, I don't think this is ever going to happen. But, I will give props to Tim who has been jocking Abreu for some time. Perhaps Goony has too. Anyway, last nights exhibition has made me a believer. Not that he is a good player, but that he could be a GREAT player in the not too distant future. He hasn't yet ascended to that Bonds/Pujols level yet, but I think last night provided the last bit of evidence I need to conclude that he will.

 

Perhaps? I've been all over Abreu for years, he's the main reason I'm on 3 straight fantasy championships (along with Marcus Giles and Prior in 2003 and Drew in 2004).

 

 

Unfortunately, he's already 31, so the idea that he could one day become GREAT, is a little off. He already is great, with a career OBP over .400, career OPS over 900 and an OPS over 900 for 6 of the past 7 years. He might maintain this level for a while, but he's not getting any better in the future.

[JC]

Someone plz slap on a question mark I thought this was an official deal (even though its unlikely)

 

 

My bad. I changed the title.

[WindyCity]

I have long wanted to find a way to bring Bobby Abreu to the Cubs and stated in another thread that I would sadly part with Z to make it happen -- but only if the Cubs also acquired AJ Burnett to replace Carlos. (Must have cake and eat it too!) :D

 

I also am fairly certain that there is no way on Earth Jim Hendry trades Zambrano. If the Phillies could be convinced to take a package of minor leaguers for Abreu, I'd be all for sending anyone in the Cubs system to get him.

Edited July 12, 2005 by WindyCity

[E.J.]

Now, I don't think this is ever going to happen. But, I will give props to Tim who has been jocking Abreu for some time. Perhaps Goony has too. Anyway, last nights exhibition has made me a believer. Not that he is a good player, but that he could be a GREAT player in the not too distant future. He hasn't yet ascended to that Bonds/Pujols level yet, but I think last night provided the last bit of evidence I need to conclude that he will.

 

There aren't many people I'd consider giving up for Zambrano, but in light of the other arms in the system and our OF situation, I'd swap him for Bobby. While it was only a HR derby, the opportunity to watch his swing more than three of four times in a game showed me a guy that is confident, patient, and generates power while maintaining a smooth, comfortable swing.

 

Wow.

 

(BTW, Miguel Cabrera was about as annoying as a swarm of gnats during that whole derby.)

 

If you look at his numbers over the past 3 years, he's already a great player:

 

2003   Phi  .300	.409	.468	.877
2004	Phi  .301	.428	.544	.972
2005	Phi  .307	.428	.526	.954

 

 

Also, in those 3 years he's had 22, 40, and 21 homeruns. He also has averaged almost 30 steals a year over the past 3 years.

 

He's been probably the most underated outfielder in the game the past couple of years. I'd love to have him in a Cubs uniform. I don't know if I'd be willing to give up Z though. It would definitely be a tough decision.

[LoneStarCubFan]

Why would Philly trade Abreu? Even for Z?

[JC]

Why would Philly trade Abreu? Even for Z?

 

Z has tremendous value, particularly at his salary. Its true that Philly has an up and coming stable of pitchers, but it would be hard to dismiss Z. However, I don't believe Philly is in any financial straights that would push them to get rid of a hefty contract like Bobby's.

[HoopsCubs]

Why would Philly trade Abreu? Even for Z?

 

It would simultaneously give them a stud starting pitcher and free up cash to address other needs (another starter or maybe a 3B or OF).

[goonys evil twin]

Why would Philly trade Abreu? Even for Z?

 

I'm not predicting they will. However, teams often choose to "go another route" when the status quo isn't working. Philly isn't exactly known for their longstanding support of the team, and as the new stadium aura wears off, they'll be looking for a spark. Of course there are several other options besides trading Abreu, but you never know.

[katway]

I wouldn't make the deal for a 31 year old Bobby Abreu, but would definitely trade Z for a 24 year old Abreu or a Miguel Cabrera :D . Since Z doesn't seem to rise to the challenge in the big games, the Cubs should consider trading him at the end of the season if they can get an all-star quality young position player in return.

[Butterscup1679666578]

(BTW, Miguel Cabrera was about as annoying as a swarm of gnats during that whole derby.)

 

Not as annoying as Pudge's kid. I'd be excited too if that were my dad, but he was annoying and cocky all at once.

[chopsx9]

Done. Doubtful if it would ever happen. I would HATE to lose Z, but Abreu is the player some posters seem to think Dunn is (and won't ever be). It would be a gamble but for a position player of Abreu's caliber: Done!

[goonys evil twin]

Since Z doesn't seem to rise to the challenge in the big games, the Cubs should consider trading him

 

 

:scratch: :-k :chin:

[Roast]

Since Z doesn't seem to rise to the challenge in the big games, the Cubs should consider trading him

 

 

:scratch: :-k :chin:

 

*ahem*

 

KARRY WUUD IS a BaD PIchER BeCuz He IzBAD inCluTCH Sittuattins!. ZaMbRano 2!!!!!111

 

Seriously...What "big games" has he been in? He was in like three playoff games. Whoopdy doo.

[E.J.]

Since Z doesn't seem to rise to the challenge in the big games, the Cubs should consider trading him

 

 

:scratch: :-k :chin:

 

*ahem*

 

KARRY WUUD IS a BaD PIchER BeCuz He IzBAD inCluTCH Sittuattins!. ZaMbRano 2!!!!!111

 

Seriously...What "big games" has he been in? He was in like three playoff games. Whoopdy doo.

 

yeah, but in those 3 playoffs games he wasn't very good. :roll:

Nevermind the fact that he was only 22 at the time and in his first full year as a Major League starter...

[TrueBlueCubFan]

(BTW, Miguel Cabrera was about as annoying as a swarm of gnats during that whole derby.)

 

Not as annoying as Pudge's kid. I'd be excited too if that were my dad, but he was annoying and cocky all at once.

 

That's why my nickname for M.Cabrera fits so well. "The Punk"

[Roast]

Since Z doesn't seem to rise to the challenge in the big games, the Cubs should consider trading him

 

 

:scratch: :-k :chin:

 

*ahem*

 

KARRY WUUD IS a BaD PIchER BeCuz He IzBAD inCluTCH Sittuattins!. ZaMbRano 2!!!!!111

 

Seriously...What "big games" has he been in? He was in like three playoff games. Whoopdy doo.

 

yeah, but in those 3 playoffs games he wasn't very good. :roll:

Nevermind the fact that he was only 22 at the time and in his first full year as a Major League starter...

 

Dont forget how bad Kerry sucks. (minus the NLDS)

[Tim]

Bobby Abreu is the player people thought Carlos Beltran was during the offseason.

[Cubzfan64]

In this day and age I always hate to see a team move a young, inexpensive better than average arm for any position player - mostly because even better than average pitching is just so dang hard to come by and in the long run it's pretty tough to win a championship just by bashing the ball - you need the good starting pitching in most cases.

 

If we had a guy or two of very good talent ready to come up to the big club and pitch, I would say Zambrano would be one of the few players we have who could truly bring us good talent in return in a trade, but I don't see us having those arms down on the farm to replace, and I dislike the idea of trying to build a winning team by overpaying for free agent pitchers.

 

The Cubs really have alot of options open to them and quite a bit depends on what happens before the trade deadline.

 

It's my wish more than anything that we either have a very hot streak and force Hendry's hand to make a good deal or two that puts us back on the map as serious contenders, or I hope we have a terrible losing streak that forces us to play some youngers to see what they can do for us in 2006 and trade a little of our big club talent for things that might help us in 2006/2007.

 

The worst thing that could happen is that we flounder through until the end of the month and we either sit still and not do anything, or we make some desperation moves.

 

Back to the question - would I trade Z for Abreu - yes, I think deep down I would do that, but it would seriously hinge on me finding a really good arm somewhere that would help us right away next year (be that as a free agent or whatever).

 

Gambling is all risk and reward - the higher the risk, the higher the potential reward. It's risky to give up Z because he has the potential to be the next ace starter, but if you get something back that's a "known" quantity like Abreu, it's certainly something to think about.

 

In most cases, I would rather risk the potential talent for a known commodity. You just have to be able to stomach the fact that you might be trading a Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio now and then - I think in the long run though, as long as you evalute the "known" commodity you are trading for correctly, you end up on the winning side of those trades more often than not.

 

Sorry for the long winded answer :-(

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I think it can also said that you weren't the only one that watched the home run derby and had their eyes opened to Abreu's skills. I wonder how many different message boards have a trade for Bobby thread going on right now...

[katway]

Since Z doesn't seem to rise to the challenge in the big games, the Cubs should consider trading him

 

 

:scratch: :-k :chin:

 

*ahem*

 

KARRY WUUD IS a BaD PIchER BeCuz He IzBAD inCluTCH Sittuattins!. ZaMbRano 2!!!!!111

 

Seriously...What "big games" has he been in? He was in like three playoff games. Whoopdy doo.

 

yeah, but in those 3 playoffs games he wasn't very good. :roll:

Nevermind the fact that he was only 22 at the time and in his first full year as a Major League starter...

 

Dont forget how bad Kerry sucks. (minus the NLDS)

 

I thought the thread was about Zambrano, not K. Wood. In any event, Zambrano looked bad in the playoff games, lost his cool against St. Louis last year, pitched poorly against the Red Sox this year (luck that he didn't give up more in that game), lost a game we needed to win in New York this year. It just seems to me when we have a game we need to win against a good team, Z just doesn't have it. There are some players always seem to want the ball when the pressure is on, Z just doesn't seem like one of them. Can he improve? Sure. Is he untouchable? No, so long as we get great value for him.

[ZZ Thorn]

Abreu's been the most underrated position player for some time, but I still wouldn't give up Z for him.

 

I could see Abreu being traded tho - he's (like everyone else who plays sports in Philly it seems) had a tenuous relationship with the fans, owner and media and has a huge contract, tho only for a couple more years. With Sosa off the books after this year, the Cubs could afford him, but not for Z.

[rawaction]

I wouldn't do it. Zambrano is an innings eater. He's still just 24 years old. The Cubs do have pitching depth, but that depth is largely plagued by injury and inconsistency.

 

Abreu is a very good player. He's great. But he's not as rare of a find as Zambrano. There are more .900 OPS (or potentially .900 OPS) OFs than there are 200 inning, low 3's ERA pitchers under the age of 25. I would much rather take the 10-20 point hit in OPS and lesser speed numbers from guys like Dunn or even Giles than give up Zambrano.

 

All things being equal (i.e. salary, age, pos. need, available replacements), I'd still take the pitcher over the OF, 9 times out of 10.

[rawaction]

Since Z doesn't seem to rise to the challenge in the big games, the Cubs should consider trading him

 

 

:scratch: :-k :chin:

 

*ahem*

 

KARRY WUUD IS a BaD PIchER BeCuz He IzBAD inCluTCH Sittuattins!. ZaMbRano 2!!!!!111

 

Seriously...What "big games" has he been in? He was in like three playoff games. Whoopdy doo.

 

yeah, but in those 3 playoffs games he wasn't very good. :roll:

Nevermind the fact that he was only 22 at the time and in his first full year as a Major League starter...

 

Dont forget how bad Kerry sucks. (minus the NLDS)

 

I thought the thread was about Zambrano, not K. Wood. In any event, Zambrano looked bad in the playoff games, lost his cool against St. Louis last year, pitched poorly against the Red Sox this year (luck that he didn't give up more in that game), lost a game we needed to win in New York this year. It just seems to me when we have a game we need to win against a good team, Z just doesn't have it. There are some players always seem to want the ball when the pressure is on, Z just doesn't seem like one of them. Can he improve? Sure. Is he untouchable? No, so long as we get great value for him.

 

Zambrano only gave up more than 3 runs in 1 of the 3 playoff games he pitched. He gave the team a chance to win in every game. He was 22 years old with 117 career innings, and throwing innings 215-230 in his first full season as a starter. He gutted out every performance in the playoffs.

 

And no offense, but I'm so sick of people saying any interleague game is huge or a "must win". The Boston and Yank series were just for bragging rights in cities that won't likely see each other for 3-4 more years.