Firing Baker is the answer..

[JonnyRed]

Just look at this lineup he has for tonight:

 

N. Perez SS 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .269

J. Macias 2B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .264

T. Walker 1B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .288

A. Ramirez 3B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .304

T. Hollandsworth LF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .283

J. Burnitz RF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .276

M. Barrett C 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .257

C. Patterson CF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .232

M. Prior P 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .222

 

That's right. He has two players with OBP's under .300 hitting 1 and 2 in the lineup. He is an idiot, plain and simple, or he is trying very hard to get fired.

 

Are you ####ING KIDDING ME???

 

MACIAS?

 

Sweet lord. GOD. He is such an idiot. WHY IN THE HELL is Macias playing over Hairston, and WHY IN THE HELL is Neifi playing over cedeno. GOOD LORD.

I think it is pretty clear that Dusty does not like Hairston. Maybe his dad did something to Baker. I cannot understand it at all.

 

Word has it that Hairston is one of the players missing signs lately. If that's the case, I agree that we shouldn't be playing him. It's inexcusible not to know the signs, how many outs there are, etc. They get paid to be professionals, not little leaguers.

[brinoch]

Word has it that Hairston is one of the players missing signs lately. If that's the case, I agree that we shouldn't be playing him. It's inexcusible not to know the signs, how many outs there are, etc. They get paid to be professionals, not little leaguers.

 

True enough. However, it's not like mental mistakes and missing signs are Hairston's singular failure. Burnitz has made several running mistakes recently; Alou made them all the time last season. Mental mistakes, like physical errors, do happen. You want to minimize them, of course, but they are a part of the game.

[badger1679666666]

Dusty is neither a good manager nor a bad one. He is quite average. You could do better, you could also do much worse. And, believe me, the CUBS have done much worse over the years. Frank Luchessi, Preston Gomez, Charlie Metro...... there's no point in going on.

 

If you think that replacing Dusty Baker is the answer, you're quite delusional. Even the ghost of John McGraw couldn't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t !!!

 

I would say, if you think keeping Dusty Baker is the answer, you're twice as delusional.

 

Replacing Dusty is one of many answers. He's the wrong manager for the wrong team. I said it before he was hired and I haven't seen anything resembling evidence to the contrary.

 

 

 

Goony, I've restored the complete text of my original post. If you think that I'm advocating keeping Dusty Baker.... please quote my post again and highlight where I said, implied, or even infered that we should keep Baker.

 

The thesis of the original post, and the title of this thread, is that firing Baker is the answer. I am merely trying to point out that when you replace Baker with [fill in the name of the world's best baseball manager here], the 2005 Chicago Cubs are NOT a contender.

 

Now, if you really think I'm delusional..... then simply tell me what manager can take this team to the playoffs, and I will gladly retract all.

 

I'm pretty sure when both Houston and Florida were scuffling in recent years, before they got new managers, people realized a change in manager would positively affect the team, light a fire etc.

 

The players are failing on the field yet, but the managers failures, i.e, last nights lineup is much more easily fixed, than putting a bat on a baseball.

 

Now give me a bat and i'll take it to dusty's head to knock some sense in to him.

[cubs dane]

Firing Dusty will not be the answer. Last year I was one of Dusty's biggest detractors. He had a team that should have been in the playoff's at the minimum. Baker's ineptitude was so transparent to me.

 

This year Dusty's just as worthless. BUT, with the personal that he has( this is where Hendry comes in), what can he do? Who is the manager going to put in LF ? Who should Dusty go with from the bullpen ? Who should catch ? Or play CF for that matter ?

 

No, Baker's hands were handcuffed from the start of the season. Could another manager have done incrementally better, no question!! It like saying Patterson is the answer for all this season's woes. No his isn't . There were just too many holes to plug right from the beginning.

[YearofDaCubs]

Firing Dusty will not be the answer. Last year I was one of Dusty's biggest detractors. He had a team that should have been in the playoff's at the minimum. Baker's ineptitude was so transparent to me.

 

This year Dusty's just as worthless. BUT, with the personal that he has( this is where Hendry comes in), what can he do? Who is the manager going to put in LF ? Who should Dusty go with from the bullpen ? Who should catch ? Or play CF for that matter ?

 

No, Baker's hands were handcuffed from the start of the season. Could another manager have done incrementally better, no question!! It like saying Patterson is the answer for all this season's woes. No his isn't . There were just too many holes to plug right from the beginning.

Firing Dusty would be a big start in the right direction.

[RockTheIvy]

Firing Dusty will help, but it will not solve the organization's total lack of interest in OBP. That's how Neifi! and Macias (and formerly Enrique Wilson) had jobs on the team. Unless Hendry can grab some offense before the deadline or before next season and make a real bench/bullpen, I think he should be history too. There's too much talent on this team/in the orgnazation right now to be wasting these years.

 

One question that I have: Does Hendry have a problem with "League Average" production? We have 4 positons (Barrett, Ramirez, Lee, Walker) with above average production, and 4 positions (Patterson, Burnitz, Neifi! and Hollandsworth/Dubois) of below average production. I'm kinda busy right now, but I think it would be very interesting to see how many more runs we would have scored if we could get to league average in those positions. We don't need all-stars at every position with this staff, we just need a more consistent offense.

[CUBZ99]

Firing Dusty will not be the answer. Last year I was one of Dusty's biggest detractors. He had a team that should have been in the playoff's at the minimum. Baker's ineptitude was so transparent to me.

 

This year Dusty's just as worthless. BUT, with the personal that he has( this is where Hendry comes in), what can he do? Who is the manager going to put in LF ? Who should Dusty go with from the bullpen ? Who should catch ? Or play CF for that matter ?

 

No, Baker's hands were handcuffed from the start of the season. Could another manager have done incrementally better, no question!! It like saying Patterson is the answer for all this season's woes. No his isn't . There were just too many holes to plug right from the beginning.

Firing Dusty would be a big start in the right direction.

 

Firing Hendry and getting a GM that understands the importance of having quality players on a team would be a better start.

 

Dusty is just an easy target, firing him is not going to make the players magically better. The new manager is still going to have to play the same players, is still going to have the horrible bench, and the pathetic bullpen, etc. etc. etc.

[dalgreen]

Firing Dusty will not be the answer. Last year I was one of Dusty's biggest detractors. He had a team that should have been in the playoff's at the minimum. Baker's ineptitude was so transparent to me.

 

This year Dusty's just as worthless. BUT, with the personal that he has( this is where Hendry comes in), what can he do? Who is the manager going to put in LF ? Who should Dusty go with from the bullpen ? Who should catch ? Or play CF for that matter ?

 

No, Baker's hands were handcuffed from the start of the season. Could another manager have done incrementally better, no question!! It like saying Patterson is the answer for all this season's woes. No his isn't . There were just too many holes to plug right from the beginning.

Firing Dusty would be a big start in the right direction.

 

More so than getting better players? I don't see why it's so hard for people to at least lay blame at a ratio of 1/3 Baker, 1/3 players, 1/3 Hendry. The manager gets too much credit in baseball and too much blame. Do you really give Garner credit for the Astros resurgence? I think he's just as bad of a manager as he was in Detroit. Did he get better in Houston or did he get better players?

[imb]

Firing Dusty is AN answer to a multiple choice question where every answer is correct.

[AI]

Firing Dusty is AN answer to a multiple choice question where every answer is correct.

 

Exactly, and the team will be improved with every one of the answer choices being selected and rectified. Replacing the manager is the easiest thing to do and also has a subsidiary impact on the players. Unless you played for the Yankees in the '80's/early '90's, players notice when the manager gets clipped and they know its also a reflection of their performance.

[YearofDaCubs]

Our lineup would be at least a bit better if Dusty started placing the right personnel in the 1 and 2 spots of the lineup.

[ZZ Thorn]

Our lineup would be at least a bit better if Dusty started placing the right personnel in the 1 and 2 spots of the lineup.

 

There is no right personnel to leadoff on this team.

 

Why is he still putting Walker 5th? To protect ARam? ARam's slump ended a month ago.

[YearofDaCubs]

Our lineup would be at least a bit better if Dusty started placing the right personnel in the 1 and 2 spots of the lineup.

 

There is no right personnel to leadoff on this team.

 

Why is he still putting Walker 5th? To protect ARam? ARam's slump ended a month ago.

Ideally you would want Hairston and Walker up front but unfortunately they play the same position. Although having Hairston in CF over Corey is probably better for this team right now.

[ZZ Thorn]

Our lineup would be at least a bit better if Dusty started placing the right personnel in the 1 and 2 spots of the lineup.

 

There is no right personnel to leadoff on this team.

 

Why is he still putting Walker 5th? To protect ARam? ARam's slump ended a month ago.

Ideally you would want Hairston and Walker up front but unfortunately they play the same position. Although having Hairston in CF over Corey is probably better for this team right now.

 

Shoot, that's probably right, but let's keep in mind CP didn't fall off the board until recently. I'm not all that enamored with Hairston - he's inconsistent and makes a lot of mental gaffes - but he is a better option than CP right now... as is Grandma ZZ.

[Chocolate Milk]

I'd like to see Ditka on the bench.

[BadKermit]

I'll follow your lead, okay allow me to ask again. Why hasn't anyone else hired Riggleman? By the way, the 1998 Cubs had a very good Lieber and Wood pitching combo, and Sosa who was head and shoulders better than anyone on the 2003 and 2004 teams. But my main question is why hasn't Riggleman been hired by anyone else? I don't have an issue in firing Bakre if you change personnel on the team or at least provide a better name than Jim Riggleman.

I'm pretty sure Lieber wasn't a Cub until 1999. Wood, Trachsel, Tapani, Gonzalez, and Clark were generally the starting five in 1998, right?

[RockTheIvy]

I'll follow your lead, okay allow me to ask again. Why hasn't anyone else hired Riggleman? By the way, the 1998 Cubs had a very good Lieber and Wood pitching combo, and Sosa who was head and shoulders better than anyone on the 2003 and 2004 teams. But my main question is why hasn't Riggleman been hired by anyone else? I don't have an issue in firing Bakre if you change personnel on the team or at least provide a better name than Jim Riggleman.

I'm pretty sure Lieber wasn't a Cub until 1999. Wood, Trachsel, Tapani, Gonzalez, and Clark were generally the starting five in 1998, right?

 

I think he was thinking of '01? I get those two years confused myself all the time.

[CubfaninCA]

How many losses in a row do the Cubs need in order for Baker to get canned?? Please let the answer be 7!

[noisesquared]

I'm looking at the situation like this: If Corey Patterson is not performing, it's mainly Corey's fault. Same thing for Neifi, Barett, Remlinger, etc. These guys are pro's, they know what they're supposed to do, and they aren't getting it done. However if the Chicago Cubs are not performing, it is strictly Baker and Hendry's fault. If the Cubs were still winning in spite of Patterson or Perez or whomever, then Hendry and Baker are doing their jobs. The great managers always find a way to win with whatever they've got (Bobby Cox is a great example), and the great GM's find a way to give their managers what they need to win.

 

The scary thing is that none of the players are really doing anything that couldn't have been reasonably expected. Neifi is playing at his level. Blaming Neifi for being bad is like blaming the sky for being blue :) . Patterson has not yet reached a level of consistency in the big leagues where solid production should be expected out of him. If he was coming off consecutive .300-30-100 seasons, and was playing like he is, then this production would be unexpected. And these guys are all being put into situations that their production does not warrant. But the lineups continue to never make sense, and the roster moves to help the lineup haven't came. Who's fault is that ?

 

Losing streaks make for long, wandering posts. :wink:

[Zaphkiel]

Thankfully, I've reached that 'zen-like' state where I just kind of roll with the losses and simply wait to see what the Cubs do next in terms of moves. It's more like watching a live-action sociology experiment than a baseball season for me, now.

 

This team can't catch the Cards, and unless Hendry makes some crazy-good moves at the break, it's not a WC team either. LF, CF and SS are all very, very bad positions, and the outfield is where we're supposed to get most of our production. I should also mention how, again, our over-rated pitching staff has dropped the ball in a most dramatic fashion. I could live with Neifi at SS if we even had league-average in the OF. But we don't, so here we are.

 

And still I watch.

[cubs dane]

I'm looking at the situation like this: If Corey Patterson is not performing, it's mainly Corey's fault. Same thing for Neifi, Barett, Remlinger, etc. These guys are pro's, they know what they're supposed to do, and they aren't getting it done. However if the Chicago Cubs are not performing, it is strictly Baker and Hendry's fault. If the Cubs were still winning in spite of Patterson or Perez or whomever, then Hendry and Baker are doing their jobs. The great managers always find a way to win with whatever they've got (Bobby Cox is a great example), and the great GM's find a way to give their managers what they need to win.

 

The scary thing is that none of the players are really doing anything that couldn't have been reasonably expected. Neifi is playing at his level. Blaming Neifi for being bad is like blaming the sky for being blue :) . Patterson has not yet reached a level of consistency in the big leagues where solid production should be expected out of him. If he was coming off consecutive .300-30-100 seasons, and was playing like he is, then this production would be unexpected. And these guys are all being put into situations that their production does not warrant. But the lineups continue to never make sense, and the roster moves to help the lineup haven't came. Who's fault is that ?

 

Losing streaks make for long, wandering posts. :wink:

 

Well written post. =D>

[Soul]

I think firing Baker is something that needs to be done. But let's not kid ourselves. Is firing Dusty going to make CPatt a decent hitter? Will it make Woody learn how to pitch? Will it turn the clock back on Maddux? Will it give Hairston an arm? Heal Lee's shoulder? Make Nomar tough? Turn Dubois into a solid outfielder?

 

I don't think so. This whole thing is such a mess. Firing Dusty is the beginning of the solution----not the end.

[RynoRules]

Just look at this lineup he has for tonight:

 

N. Perez SS 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .269

J. Macias 2B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .264

T. Walker 1B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .288

A. Ramirez 3B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .304

T. Hollandsworth LF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .283

J. Burnitz RF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .276

M. Barrett C 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .257

C. Patterson CF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .232

M. Prior P 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .222

 

That's right. He has two players with OBP's under .300 hitting 1 and 2 in the lineup. He is an idiot, plain and simple, or he is trying very hard to get fired.

 

There may be some truth there. The way he has handled this team is inexplicable, and you can see the fabric breaking down before our eyes - Ramirez not running to first; Prior's comments in the paper this morning, etc.

 

If this were any other franchise, Baker would probably be gone by now. But note: if the Cubs fail to win a game in FL this weekend, he may not make the trip back to Chicago.

[neely crenshaw]

firing dusty might spark a little fire but this teams problems are much deeper. fire hendry! he has brought in a high payroll that can not play the game. blame dusty all you want but we have 2 major league players-aram and lee. we have an injury prone pro at short in nomar. hendry took a team that was on the brink of national league domination and blew it up for a .500 level team that is only that because it has pitchers and plays in the central. if we were still in the east we would be out of this race by july 1. we had a team that needed a lead off man, and a upgrade at short and closer/bullpen..he left that they it was until deadline and has yet to address lead off or closer. he has added holes in left and right, a crap shoot at short, catcher, and bullpen....yeah firing dusty might help but i still say that if you take these pitchers, and this schedule you could put almost any pro players in the lineup and be right where we are...

thanks jim for blowing this oppurtunity to break a 100 year drought.

[ltb]

fire hendry!

 

thanks jim for blowing this oppurtunity to break a 100 year drought.

 

yes, let's fire hendry around the time of year that he's proven time and again that he does his best work.

 

if hendry is going to be fired, it has to be when the season is over, not now, because you'll do nothing but hurt the team more.