How about some props for Maddux

[Backtobanks]

I know he is overpriced this year and next (how many players aren't overpriced in today's market), but Maddux is well on his way to another 15-16 win season and will probably lead the team in victories. Maybe the Cubs give him more run support or something, but the bottom line is that the Cubs have a better than average chance of winning when he starts a game. He is amazing to watch with his underwhelming stuff, while all of our pitchers with overwhelming stuff walk batters, throw wild piches, and spend time on the DL. I would love to be one of our young pitchers and be able to listen to and observe him on a daily basis.

[erik316wttn]

I know he is overpriced this year and next (how many players aren't overpriced in today's market), but Maddux is well on his way to another 15-16 win season and will probably lead the team in victories. Maybe the Cubs give him more run support or something, but the bottom line is that the Cubs have a better than average chance of winning when he starts a game. He is amazing to watch with his underwhelming stuff, while all of our pitchers with overwhelming stuff walk batters, throw wild piches, and spend time on the DL. I would love to be one of our young pitchers and be able to listen to and observe him on a daily basis.

 

Bravo.

 

Maddux is not the Maddux of old. Anyone can see that. However, there are FAR worse ways to spend 9 million next year should his option vest. I really don't see why everyone is getting so bent out of shape about it.

[C.C.]

He's fun to watch when he's on. In fact he didn't have his best stuff. His cutter wasn't working yesterday, so he survived on gile and his good changeup...

[10man]

How about Greg with a prop?

 

http://www.kocanda.com/cubs/kabuki_greg.jpg

[AcesHigh]

I know he is overpriced this year and next (how many players aren't overpriced in today's market), but Maddux is well on his way to another 15-16 win season and will probably lead the team in victories. Maybe the Cubs give him more run support or something, but the bottom line is that the Cubs have a better than average chance of winning when he starts a game. He is amazing to watch with his underwhelming stuff, while all of our pitchers with overwhelming stuff walk batters, throw wild piches, and spend time on the DL. I would love to be one of our young pitchers and be able to listen to and observe him on a daily basis.

Good stuff.

 

The thing about Greg is that you know what you are going to get from him. He typically gives you 6 innings with 2-4 runs, which gives you a chance to be in every ballgame. Is he overpowering? No. Can he win a game for himself? Not very often. Does he consistently give you a chance to win? Absolutely, that's all you can ask from a starter.

[TB_11]

He's fun to watch when he's on. In fact he didn't have his best stuff. His cutter wasn't working yesterday, so he survived on gile and his good changeup...

 

Completely agree - he gets the ball back, winds up, and throws it in. Repeat. Finesse pitchers are more enjoyable to watch than power pitchers when they're on, IMO.

 

Love the avatar 10man.

[abuck1220]

 

Maddux is not the Maddux of old. Anyone can see that. However, there are FAR worse ways to spend 9 million next year should his option vest. I really don't see why everyone is getting so bent out of shape about it.

 

there are a lot more far better ways to spend 9 mil.

[Laura]

Maddux gets some sweet props in this Kirk Wesslercolumn in the Peoria paper.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

 

Maddux is not the Maddux of old. Anyone can see that. However, there are FAR worse ways to spend 9 million next year should his option vest. I really don't see why everyone is getting so bent out of shape about it.

 

there are a lot more far better ways to spend 9 mil.

 

Like adding $3 million more to it for a pitcher that probably won't give you a full season. :roll:

[Peoriaman]

Maddux leads the Cubs in innings pitched this year and I believe was second last year. He is a workhorse.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I think he's well worth the 9 mill we are giving him. How many other pitchers do we have that will win 30-33 games in a two year span with this team? Who else could you get for less money that would put up those results? Yeah, he's not dominant or flashy, but I feel more comfortable with him out there than a lot of other guys.

[Mark_R]

I think he's well worth the 9 mill we are giving him. How many other pitchers do we have that will win 30-33 games in a two year span with this team? Who else could you get for less money that would put up those results? Yeah, he's not dominant or flashy, but I feel more comfortable with him out there than a lot of other guys.

 

Matt Clement and his 8.5 million dollars (compared to Greg's 9 million) say hi.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

What I find most amazing is that Maddux has a streak of what, 15 straight seasons with 15 wins or more while Kerry Wood has never won more than 14 games in a year. Not even once. And Wood is making more money than Maddux is.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What I find most amazing is that Maddux has a streak of what, 15 straight seasons with 15 wins or more while Kerry Wood has never won more than 14 games in a year. Not even once. And Wood is making more money than Maddux is.

 

Wins are a terrible, terrible metric to measure pitchers. There are a host of pitchers who could equal Maddux's production for less than he's making.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I think he's well worth the 9 mill we are giving him. How many other pitchers do we have that will win 30-33 games in a two year span with this team? Who else could you get for less money that would put up those results? Yeah, he's not dominant or flashy, but I feel more comfortable with him out there than a lot of other guys.

 

Matt Clement and his 8.5 million dollars (compared to Greg's 9 million) say hi.

 

I love Clement, but for him to put up 30-33 wins in the past two years, he'd have to win between 21-24 games this year. While it's possible, it's not likely. And he has also never won over 15 games in his career. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to keep Clement more than anyone, but paying Maddux 9 million isn't a huge catastraphe

[Mark_R]

I think he's well worth the 9 mill we are giving him. How many other pitchers do we have that will win 30-33 games in a two year span with this team? Who else could you get for less money that would put up those results? Yeah, he's not dominant or flashy, but I feel more comfortable with him out there than a lot of other guys.

 

Matt Clement and his 8.5 million dollars (compared to Greg's 9 million) say hi.

 

I love Clement, but for him to put up 30-33 wins in the past two years, he'd have to win between 21-24 games this year. While it's possible, it's not likely. And he has also never won over 15 games in his career. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to keep Clement more than anyone, but paying Maddux 9 million isn't a huge catastraphe

 

Next year it will be.

 

When you have all these guys eligible for rotation spots for FAR less than Maddux will be making, I don't see why having him can be a good thing for this ballclub.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I know wins aren't a great measure for pitchers, but they aren't completely meaningless either. If they were, no one would be talking about his 312 career wins. Kerry Woods career ERA is 3.70. He had a great year in 2003, and his ERA was 3.20, which was his career best. Maddux's career ERA is 2.99. While it's was relatively high last year (4.02), that was his highest ERA since 1988. And that's by a huge margin. Everything else was generally in the 2. range. With some years in 1., and a few in 3.. He's earned his money in my eyes. While my opinion may not matter, it is still my opinion.

[Chocolate Milk]

This Hubaloo about Greg's option is Much Ado about Nothing, IMO.

 

He's a known quanity. 90% of the time you'll get 6 innings with 2-4 runs given up. Sometimes a little better sometimes a little worse. He doesn't get hurt and he doesn't miss starts. He puts the team in a decent position to win a game.

 

There is no salary cap in baseball. The few million dollars he is getting overpayed is inconsequential, IMO. It's not like he is a complete dead weight out there. The guy is going to make every start this year and probably win 15 games. We could do a lot worse. Could we do better? Sure. I just thing there are much more important things to be critical about with this team than Maddux.

Edited June 27, 2005 by Chocolate Milk

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

It may just be me, but I don't see how having Greg Maddux in your rotation can be a bad thing. Yeah, there are younger, cheaper guys. But do you really feel more comfortable with Sergio Mitre on the mound than Greg Maddux?

[Cubzfan64]

What I find most amazing is that Maddux has a streak of what, 15 straight seasons with 15 wins or more while Kerry Wood has never won more than 14 games in a year. Not even once. And Wood is making more money than Maddux is.

 

Wins are a terrible, terrible metric to measure pitchers. There are a host of pitchers who could equal Maddux's production for less than he's making.

 

And there's a "host" that can't and are making more.

 

The fact of the matter is we could play this game all day long postiing pitchers records, era's etc... and it's quite likely that nobody here is going to change their minds - either you're happy with Maddux here or you aren't.

 

I personally don't have a problem with paying the man $9 for what he brings to the mound every 5th start. Hindsight is 20-20 so I suppose that money might have been spent better, however you can say the same thing about Kerry Wood.

 

I hope this thread dies because it's just going to turn into the same old discussion again.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

You're right, this is a redundant argument, so I'll say one more thing and then try (try being the key word) to leave it be. Does anyone remember who Ronnie Fields was? He was the MVP on Kevin Garnett's high school basketball team at Farragut. Can anyone tell me where he is now? Last I checked, he was bouncing around the CBA or ABA, whichever of those leagues was still around a few years ago. My point there is, potential is just a word until you prove yourself. Then it's called talent. I will take a guy who has proven himself to be effective over a guy with potential every day of the week. So a younger cheaper option might look like a great idea to some. You can sit there and HOPE the guy pans out into a great starter. Or you can take a guy like Maddux who has proven he will get you 15 wins year in and year out. That to me is worth 9 mil.

 

There are thousands of guys with potential. There are only a few who have turned that potential into talent. Those are the guys you shoud be paying 9 million a year for.

[CubinNY]

Viva Greg!

 

Viva Wins!

 

Viva option vesting!

 

Wins may be a terrible stat to judge pitchers by, but it the only way to judge a team. When Maddux pitches his team wins more often than not. End of the stroy.

 

Taking any stat to an extreme is not a good thing. Wins (for a pitcher) is just another stat, it is neither insignificant nor all-important.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This Hubaloo about Greg's option is Much Ado about Nothing, IMO.

 

He's a known quanity. 90% of the time you'll get 6 innings with 2-4 runs given up. Sometimes a little better sometimes a little worse. He doesn't get hurt and he doesn't miss starts. He puts the team in a decent position to win a game.

 

I'm not sure that's true, but even if it is, it's true for a LOT of pitchers.

[SouthSideRyan]

I really don't understand how people can be so anti-Maddux, talk about what a terrible contract it is and always let Kerry off the hook.

 

And I'm not complaining about either, just saying.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I really don't understand how people can be so anti-Maddux, talk about what a terrible contract it is and always let Kerry off the hook.

 

And I'm not complaining about either, just saying.

 

Maybe because they're thinking about performance going forward, not what they have produced? Dunno.