Cubs have interest in Kotsay

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'd pass, set your sights higher, Kotsay does nothing to address the team's lack of ability of getting runners on base.

 

Right....

 

Kotsay has an OBP of .355 for 2002-05 (playing for the Marlins, Padres and now A's).

 

Yes, the Cubs couldn't use that at the top of the order at all.

 

On top of that he plays defence to die for. There isn't a CF I'd rather watch play defence that Kotsay. He glides around making everything look ridiculously easy.

 

He's the most underrated CF in the game by a mile. He only 29. He earns $5.5m this year and $5.5m next year (player option). Salaries would increase to $6.5m each year if he were traded.

 

If you gave me $6.5m a year and I could sign any CF in the game with that money, off the top of my head I can't think of a better choice than Kotsay.

 

That said, I'm still opposed to trading for him, because he'd be expensive in terms of prospects, as raw says. And I'm a Corey apologist.

 

Let's see, what has his EqA been over the last 3 years, about .275?

 

2000: .268

2001: .288

2002: .289

2003: .266

2004: .287

2005: .265

 

You've got two figures that keep recurring there. About .266 and about .288. Strange. .288 is very strong. .266 isn't, it's merely okay. I believe Kotsay at .266 is a .288 player disappointing though, as opposed to a .266 player playing over his head. There's a difference.

 

He's off to a poor start this year, had a career of nagging injuries and will require a couple of top prospects to obtain.

 

I wouldnt' say he's off to a poor start. Merely an okay one. I can't dispute either of your other two points. But if you read what I've said more closely, I'm not particularly in favor of acquiring Kotsay, despite being a big fan of his.

 

Would he help the team? Sure, b/c of the lack of talent in the OF moreso than Kotsay's talents.

 

But also because any player capable of repeatedly putting up .288 EqAs while playing excellent defence at a very important defensive position is worth having.

 

I think Hairston would have a similar OBP at the top, without the salary, prospects given up, and without the defense.

 

That defence being a pretty enormous difference. Hairston also has significantly less power. There's simply not a comparison between the two as all-round players, regardless of the fact their OBPs are likely to be similar. Also, more of Kotsay's OBP is driven by hits as opposed to hit by pitches, which makes a difference with runners on, for what that's worth.

 

So, since he's isn't solid enough offensively for a corner OF'er as neither is Hairston, Hollandsworth, Dubois, or Burnitz at this stage. I see a miminal upgrade offensively, especially since probably won't cut it as a corner OF'er.

 

Yes, but he's not a corner OF, which solves that "problem". If a team acquires Kotsay and puts him in one of the corners, they're certifiably crazy.

 

My assumption would be that if the Cubs acquire Kotsay, he'll play CF. His numbers so far...even this season....are better than Corey's.

 

My guess is if we get Kotsay, Corey is on his way out of town. That's purely speculation, but it is the assumption I'd make.

[YearofDaCubs]

Is Kotsay that much of an upgrade over Corey? I don't think so.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Is Kotsay that much of an upgrade over Corey? I don't think so.

 

2005 Numbers:

 

BA

Patterson: 256

Kotsay: 276

 

OBP

Patterson: 291

Kotsay: 336

 

OPS

Patterson: 703

Kotsay: 735

 

Career Numbers

 

BA

Patterson: 261

Kotsay: 286

 

OBP

Patterson: 301

Kotsay: 343

 

OPS

Patterson: 730

Kotsay: 766

 

I think the 40 or so points in OBP is significant enough to say, "yes" Kotsay is an improvement over Patterson.

[YearofDaCubs]

Corey can steal more bases which is always good for a team that has only a couple that can.

[goonys evil twin]

Is Kotsay that much of an upgrade over Corey? I don't think so.

I think the 40 or so points in OBP is significant enough to say, "yes" Kotsay is an improvement over Patterson.

 

The question was not "is Kotsay an improvement over Patterson", the question was "is he that much of an upgrade over Patterson?" Depending on how you define that much, I don't think it's a stretch to say he's not that much of an improvement.

[E.J.]

Corey can steal more bases which is always good for a team that has only a couple that can.

 

Corey has to actually be on base to steal one. He's only getting on base 29% of the time right now.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Corey can steal more bases which is always good for a team that has only a couple that can.

 

If he gets on base....

 

With a 300 OBP, he's not going to get that many opportunities.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Is Kotsay that much of an upgrade over Corey? I don't think so.

I think the 40 or so points in OBP is significant enough to say, "yes" Kotsay is an improvement over Patterson.

 

The question was not "is Kotsay an improvement over Patterson", the question was "is he that much of an upgrade over Patterson?" Depending on how you define that much, I don't think it's a stretch to say he's not that much of an improvement.

 

Well, my contention has been that if we get Kotsay, we could trade Patterson to upgrade a corner outfield position.

 

If Kotsay is the only acquisition...or if we use Corey as the chip to get him...then no, I don't think that is enough to warrant making the deal.

 

On the other hand, if by acquiring Kotsay, he becomes the player to field CF until Pie is deemed ready and Patterson is used to get a quality upgrade for left, then I think it would be a wise move.

 

I've always liked Patterson, but lately it's become more and more frustrating to watch him play.

[brinoch]

Vance, I don't see the market for Corey to net us a stud corner OF. Corey's starting to get expensive -- so who's going to want him? The Reds won't, Tampa won't, the A's won't -- none the small market teams. Perhaps the Yankees. I could see a deal to get us Kotsay where we turn around and deal Patterson in a package for Sheffield. But why is that a good deal for the Yankees?

[Outshined_One]

Vance, I don't see the market for Corey to net us a stud corner OF. Corey's starting to get expensive -- so who's going to want him? The Reds won't, Tampa won't, the A's won't -- none the small market teams. Perhaps the Yankees. I could see a deal to get us Kotsay where we turn around and deal Patterson in a package for Sheffield. But why is that a good deal for the Yankees?

 

They get some one who can actually play CF well. He's always been a highly-rated player with pop and speed, so I'm sure that if the Yankees believe they could turn him around, they'd jump at the opportunity. Remember, being a left handed hitter at Yankee Stadium is a plus, since RH hitters typically have their power numbers suffer there.

[brinoch]

Vance, I don't see the market for Corey to net us a stud corner OF. Corey's starting to get expensive -- so who's going to want him? The Reds won't, Tampa won't, the A's won't -- none the small market teams. Perhaps the Yankees. I could see a deal to get us Kotsay where we turn around and deal Patterson in a package for Sheffield. But why is that a good deal for the Yankees?

 

They get some one who can actually play CF well. He's always been a highly-rated player with pop and speed, so I'm sure that if the Yankees believe they could turn him around, they'd jump at the opportunity. Remember, being a left handed hitter at Yankee Stadium is a plus, since RH hitters typically have their power numbers suffer there.

 

Yes, that's fine, I recognize the upgrade for CF and the short porch, but who covers RF if they deal Sheffield? Ruben Sierra? With the injury to Matsui they are playing Womack in LF!!! Womack!! In this deal, Patterson essentially replaces Sheffield in that OF, and that's just not a good deal for the Yankees.

[UK1679666180]

I'd pass, set your sights higher, Kotsay does nothing to address the team's lack of ability of getting runners on base.

 

Right....

 

Kotsay has an OBP of .355 for 2002-05 (playing for the Marlins, Padres and now A's).

 

Yes, the Cubs couldn't use that at the top of the order at all.

 

On top of that he plays defence to die for. There isn't a CF I'd rather watch play defence that Kotsay. He glides around making everything look ridiculously easy.

 

He's the most underrated CF in the game by a mile. He only 29. He earns $5.5m this year and $5.5m next year (player option). Salaries would increase to $6.5m each year if he were traded.

 

If you gave me $6.5m a year and I could sign any CF in the game with that money, off the top of my head I can't think of a better choice than Kotsay.

 

That said, I'm still opposed to trading for him, because he'd be expensive in terms of prospects, as raw says. And I'm a Corey apologist.

 

Let's see, what has his EqA been over the last 3 years, about .275?

 

2000: .268

2001: .288

2002: .289

2003: .266

2004: .287

2005: .265

 

You've got two figures that keep recurring there. About .266 and about .288. Strange. .288 is very strong. .266 isn't, it's merely okay. I believe Kotsay at .266 is a .288 player disappointing though, as opposed to Kotsay at .288 being a .266 player playing over his head. There's a difference.

 

He's off to a poor start this year, had a career of nagging injuries and will require a couple of top prospects to obtain.

 

I wouldnt' say he's off to a poor start. Merely an okay one. I can't dispute either of your other two points. But if you read what I've said more closely, I'm not particularly in favor of acquiring Kotsay, despite being a big fan of his.

 

Would he help the team? Sure, b/c of the lack of talent in the OF moreso than Kotsay's talents.

 

But also because any player capable of repeatedly putting up .288 EqAs while playing excellent defence at a very important defensive position is worth having.

 

I think Hairston would have a similar OBP at the top, without the salary, prospects given up, and without the defense.

 

That defence being a pretty enormous difference. Hairston also has significantly less power. There's simply not a comparison between the two as all-round players, regardless of the fact their OBPs are likely to be similar. Also, more of Kotsay's OBP is driven by hits as opposed to hit by pitches, which makes a difference with runners on, for what that's worth.

 

So, since he's isn't solid enough offensively for a corner OF'er as neither is Hairston, Hollandsworth, Dubois, or Burnitz at this stage. I see a miminal upgrade offensively, especially since probably won't cut it as a corner OF'er.

 

Yes, but he's not a corner OF, which solves that "problem". If a team acquires Kotsay and puts him in one of the corners, they're certifiably crazy.

 

But, the Of defense isn't a problem at this point it isn't a strength either. The problem is getting runners on base in front of Lee and Ramirez, which has to do with Dusty not putting Walker at the top of the lineup enough or getting another positional player with a higher OBP. It isn't worth it, when you have a potential higher OBP sitting on the bench. Personally, I'd stick with Corey in CF'er and cont. to ride it out.

[soapy]

More speculation on the interest in Kotsay (I didn't see this already posted, so I hope it's not):

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=makingaplayforkotsayyank&prov=tsn&type=lgns

 

Lists the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs.

[andrew9991]

More speculation on the interest in Kotsay (I didn't see this already posted, so I hope it's not):

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=makingaplayforkotsayyank&prov=tsn&type=lgns

 

Lists the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs.

 

 

Yeah, I just read that myself. Based on what Rosenthal said, he kind of makes the Cubs sound like the favorites (if they really want him). Should be interesting.

[badger1679666666]

Their farm system, deep in pitching, is considered one of the best in the game.

 

I love reading this about us.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I like Mark Kotsay.

[soapy]

I like Mark Kotsay.

 

Only if it's followed by a trade for a significant bat in LF (which would likely include Patterson). I don't see how Mark Kotsay alone solves our offensive problems. If you are going to play him in LF, why not just put Hairston out there?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I like Mark Kotsay.

 

Only if it's followed by a trade for a significant bat in LF (which would likely include Patterson). I don't see how Mark Kotsay alone solves our offensive problems. If you are going to play him in LF, why not just put Hairston out there?

 

No no, you inferred correctly the first time, Kotsay is just one of two new OF-ers I want. I put him in CF and go get a bat for LF (Huff? Mench? Kearns?)

 

I like Kotsay's defense, I like his attitude (always plays HARD), he has some speed, he makes contact. He's not a power hitter, big deal, neither is Patterson really. But I want Kotsay's 60 points better OBP and 100 points better OPS in my lineup. I bat him leadoff of course, and put Walker right behind him.

 

What would it cost? Dunno, hard to say what Beane is looking for. Yankees would offer any or all of their three semi-marketable, semi-prospects (Cano, Duncan and Wang). Red Sox could dangle Youkilis (who'd likely interest Beane, but where would he play with Chavez at 3B?) and then what? They've consistently said Hanley Ramirez is untouchable.

 

Then there's us. I put a pool of 5 nice prospects in front of Beane and tell him to pick any two he wants. These would be our good, but not premier prospects--things like Hill, and Sing, and Craig, and Ryu etc...Then see what happens.

[stitchface]

comparing offensive numbers is pretty unfair considering where Kotsay has played most of his home games. UK has the right idea in going to EQA. I tend to agree that the Cubs have the players in house to help the offense by playing Hairston in LF (he is downright frightening in CF) and moving Walker up in the order. Fontenot could certainly help this team instead of wasting time in AAA as a 26 year old - certainly more than Macias or Wilson. I would like to see a big bat in left with a high obp and some power to bat between Lee and Ramirez and bump Burnitz to #6. I don't know who that is though as most of the names listed as available are not much of an improvement over what the Cubs have. I would hate to see a trade just to see a trade.

[soapy]

I like Mark Kotsay.

 

Only if it's followed by a trade for a significant bat in LF (which would likely include Patterson). I don't see how Mark Kotsay alone solves our offensive problems. If you are going to play him in LF, why not just put Hairston out there?

 

No no, you inferred correctly the first time, Kotsay is just one of two new OF-ers I want. I put him in CF and go get a bat for LF (Huff? Mench? Kearns?)

 

I like Kotsay's defense, I like his attitude (always plays HARD), he has some speed, he makes contact. He's not a power hitter, big deal, neither is Patterson really. But I want Kotsay's 60 points better OBP and 100 points better OPS in my lineup. I bat him leadoff of course, and put Walker right behind him.

 

What would it cost? Dunno, hard to say what Beane is looking for. Yankees would offer any or all of their three semi-marketable, semi-prospects (Cano, Duncan and Wang). Red Sox could dangle Youkilis (who'd likely interest Beane, but where would he play with Chavez at 3B?) and then what? They've consistently said Hanley Ramirez is untouchable.

 

Then there's us. I put a pool of 5 nice prospects in front of Beane and tell him to pick any two he wants. These would be our good, but not premier prospects--things like Hill, and Sing, and Craig, and Ryu etc...Then see what happens.

 

I'm glad you clarified. I agree with much of what you've said. I'm not necessarily against having Kotsay in CF for the next year and a half (until Pie is ready) if it means Patterson has been flipped in another deal that yields a significant bat.

[stitchface]

I don't understand the interest in Kearns - along with all his injury problems, he has been a huge disappointment. Not that he couldn't turn it around at his age, but he sure doesn't look like a 2005 saver to me.

[Balsa]

Wow...in the last three years (including this one) Kotsay has less than half the SOs of CPatt.

 

And he had a .370 OBP last year....

 

This looks tasty.

[jtownie]

Read today in the NY Post that the Cubs are thinking of acquiring Kotsay and moving Patterson to Left.

 

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/48921.htm

[E.J.]

Read today in the NY Post that the Cubs are thinking of acquiring Kotsay and moving Patterson to Left.

 

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/48921.htm

 

A quote from this NY Post article:

 

Steinbrenner's desire to add blood-and-guts outfielder Mark Kotsay has run into a couple of roadblocks. One, the A's and Kotsay are talking about a two-year extension. Two, the Cubs, who have better prospects to offer than the Yankees, who won't budge on No. 1 pitching prospect Philip Hughes.

 

Cubs are interested in acquiring Kotsay and shifting Corey Patterson to left. In early discussions with the Yankees, the A's wanted Hughes and infielder Eric Duncan for Kotsay but were described as being flexible.

 

I don't really see Corey being on this team if Hendry does go out and get Kotsay. Just Kotsay doesn't really bring enough of an impact to help us. If Hendry goes out and trades for Kotsay then Corey is on his way out of town.

[Pilchard]

I don't really see Corey being on this team if Hendry does go out and get Kotsay. Just Kotsay doesn't really bring enough of an impact to help us. If Hendry goes out and trades for Kotsay then Corey is on his way out of town.

 

I agree. Corey is not producing the offense to be a corner outfielder, and the Cubs would be wasting his speed by putting him in LF. He would be more valuable playing CF somewhere else.

 

The problem is potential. Corey is brimming with it, and Hendry has to fear that he will bust out (like Andruw Jones is doing right now) somewhere else. Really tough to trade away someone with Corey's tools, but the decision has to be whether the Cubs can win it all this year with a player (Kotsay) that will be upgrade this year, but possibly not in the future. Tough call.