No offense, But the offense is offensive

[We Got The Whole 9]

2 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

A lot of teams over the years need a move that sparks the lineup. For 100 games, that spark could be a homer hitting firstbaseman playing on an expiring contract? Keep in mind, this guy thru 5 seasons has Ralph Kiner power. 

And it all adds up to Michael Busch's current offensive output. 

[LBiittner]

2 minutes ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Don’t forget the silly contract Alonso is asking for, pass on renting him 

I'm saying for 100 games, who cares about 2025 $? The season to try and win is the season in progress

[LBiittner]

1 minute ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

And it all adds up to Michael Busch's current offensive output. 

Short sample?

Short sighted?

[Rcal10]

Just now, LBiittner said:

Tbh, rcal, you said you wouldn't give up much for glasnow last offseason. How does that prognostication look today?

J/k

Looks fine. Let me ask you this? Would the Cubs have extended him for what the Dodgers did? The answer is no. So why would they give up what the Dodgers gave up. Regardless of how good he does, it would have been this year only. So, I stand by what I said. The Cubs FO should not have given up much for one year of Glasnow at a salary of $27M. And 10 starts doesn’t make a 5 year contract. Let him pitch 180-200 for a few years before complaining about him being someone we missed out on.  

[Tryptamine]

9 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

I'm saying for 100 games, who cares about 2025 $? The season to try and win is the season in progress

If the asking price is like Alex Canario then sure, but I suspect given what Alonso means to the fans and because of his HR prowess, they're going to be seeking substantially more than that. I'm sure you could get JD Martinez far cheaper and he'd give you just as much production. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If the end result of trading for Alonso is 'when everyone is healthy and no one is being rested, either Busch or PCA are out of the lineup', I have a hard time seeing that as being a mutually exclusive situation.  Part of that thinking is that you do exclude Morel from the calculus, but even as one of his longest running defensive skeptics, I think that ship has sailed for this year.  The internal options have not been nearly good enough to push him to DH outside of specific matchups, and in a world where that would also push another plus hitter to the bench I think they'd be even more willing to stick it out with him.

 

Also, Alonso has a career 133 wRC+ and Citi Field is tied with Petco for 29th in hitter friendliness, part of the motivation for pulling the trigger is you're buying at least slightly low on what you'd expect for him rest of season.

[LBiittner]

3 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Looks fine. Let me ask you this? Would the Cubs have extended him for what the Dodgers did? The answer is no. So why would they give up what the Dodgers gave up. Regardless of how good he does, it would have been this year only. So, I stand by what I said. The Cubs FO should not have given up much for one year of Glasnow at a salary of $27M. And 10 starts doesn’t make a 5 year contract. Let him pitch 180-200 for a few years before complaining about him being someone we missed out on.  

The extension wasn't necessary to get a deal done. 

[Rcal10]

5 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

The extension wasn't necessary to get a deal done. 

I know that. But do you give up what the Dodgers did for 1 year of Glasnow, coming off an injury year. Also a guy who never pitched 130 innings in a year. Again. No I wouldn’t and the Cubs shouldn’t have. You can’t factor in what the Dodgers can do when comparing their moves to any other teams. I doubt the Dodgers give that much up unless they knew they would sign him. And that was never going to be a thing with the cubs. 

Edited June 5, 2024 by Rcal10

[LBiittner]

8 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

If the asking price is like Alex Canario then sure, but I suspect given what Alonso means to the fans and because of his HR prowess, they're going to be seeking substantially more than that. I'm sure you could get JD Martinez far cheaper and he'd give you just as much production. 

In their mind, If the Mets ask? What do they ask for from Jed?

[Tryptamine]

9 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

In their mind, If the Mets ask? What do they ask for from Jed?

My guess is the Mets ask for someone like Caissie/Ballesteros which is an immediate hang up the phone response if I'm Jed.

[LBiittner]

Agreed with you

[CubinNY]

1 hour ago, Bertz said:

Stealing a TT move:

Player A: .238/.335/.440,  .338 wOBA, .335 xwOBA, 121 wRC+, 1.1 War

Player B: .237/.309/.475, .338 wOBA, .336 xwOBA, 125 wRC+, 0.9 WAR

Which of these players is Michael Busch and which is Pete Alonso?

lol, Which one has a proven track record in MLB for hitting dongs at a prodigious pace in a park not suited for it, and which one is a 27 year old career minor leaguer who can't hit in MLB? 

Some of this nonsense is laughable. 

[Jason Ross]

4 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

lol, Which one has a proven track record in MLB for hitting dongs at a prodigious pace in a park not suited for it, and which one is a 27 year old career minor leaguer who can't hit in MLB? 

Some of this nonsense is laughable. 

I think it's hard to say that one them can't "hit at the MLB level" when he's posting up near identical numbers in 2024 to Pete Alonso. 

Here's some recent game logs from Busch:
Since May 1st: 105 wRC+
Since May 16th: 116 wRC+
Over his last two weeks: 114 wRC+
Over his last week: 140 wRC+

The hand-wringing on Michael Busch feels really silly. There's some strikeout issues that I think we can point to as aspects of imperfection. But even when things aren't going great, he's 5% better than league average as a hitter. And the arrow is pointing up. 

Does that mean the Cubs shouldn't acquire Pete Alonso? No! We can get creative with the lineup and Counsell is here in part because he's a great matchup guy! But sentences like "27-career-minor-leaguer-who-can't-hit-in-the-MLB" are just unfounded.

[KCCub]

I’m still very much in the “make me hurt Jed if you trade or don’t do anything outside of rental RP” crowd. I think Alonso would help this team, but I’m not a fan of trading for a rental of his caliber when the team is a fringe playoff team. If this was 2016-esque, yes trade assets for the top rental guys who could put you over the top. For this deadline, go for Vladdy Jr or Kyle Tucker (Of course they have to be available, which it sounds like both very well could be) level of guys. Give me someone that could help this team beyond this year and try like hell to lock them up (Tucker, yes please). Make me hurt in a good way Jed.

[We Got The Whole 9]

2 minutes ago, KCCub said:

I’m still very much in the “make me hurt Jed if you trade or don’t do anything outside of rental RP” crowd. I think Alonso would help this team, but I’m not a fan of trading for a rental of his caliber when the team is a fringe playoff team. If this was 2016-esque, yes trade assets for the top rental guys who could put you over the top. For this deadline, go for Vladdy Jr or Kyle Tucker (Of course they have to be available, which it sounds like both very well could be) level of guys. Give me someone that could help this team beyond this year and try like hell to lock them up (Tucker, yes please). Make me hurt in a good way Jed.

Well Bregman is up to league-average now and already has 2 HR in June. You want to take a swing?

[KCCub]

7 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Well Bregman is up to league-average now and already has 2 HR in June. You want to take a swing?

Same mold as Alonso, would help us (probably more-so considering position), but he’s just a rental. 

[muntjack]

What exactly were everyone's expectations for Busch? He's a rookie with a 121 wRC+ on pace for about 3 WAR.  There's a pretty decent chance he can improve on this, and he makes 740k.  

[We Got The Whole 9]

6 minutes ago, muntjack said:

What exactly were everyone's expectations for Busch? He's a rookie with a 121 wRC+ on pace for about 3 WAR.  There's a pretty decent chance he can improve on this, and he makes 740k.  

I think we saw the plate discipline and didn't expect such a high K rate but overall this is about where I'd hoped he would be.

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, LBiittner said:

Tbh, rcal, you said you wouldn't give up much for glasnow last offseason. How does that prognostication look today?

J/k

Hey, even though you say j/k, you did make me think about this again. So you asked how it is going with the  Cubs and their decision not to beat the Dodgers offer for Glasnow. So based on what the Dodgers gave up that would mean the Cubs would have probably had to give up Brown and maybe Triantos. They would have gotten Glasnow and Margot. Of course with those salaries, most likely they then don’t get Imanaga or Bellinger. And they lose Brown. So let me throw this question back at you. Would you rather have one year of Glasnow and Margot or 4 years of Imanaga, 6 years of Brown, 1 year of Bellinger and still have Triantos in the system? If you would rather have what they have on the team by not trading for Glasnow, that should tell you how that prognostication looks. 

Edited June 5, 2024 by Rcal10

[LBiittner]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

Hey, even though you say j/k, you did make me think about this again. So you asked how it is going with the  Cubs and their decision not to beat the Dodgers offer for Glasnow. So based on what the Dodgers gave up that would mean the Cubs would have probably had to give up Brown and maybe Triantos. They would have gotten Glasnow and Margot. Of course with those salaries, most likely they then don’t get Imanaga or Bellinger. And they lose Brown. So let me throw this question back at you. Would you rather have one year of Glasnow and Margot or 4 years of Imanaga, 6 years of Brown, 1 year of Bellinger and still have Triantos in the system? If you would rather have what they have on the team by not trading for Glasnow, that should tell you how that prognostication looks. 

At the time glasnow was moved, everyone and I mean everyone, thought Jed would have deep pockets. Based on the counsell hire/ Ross castration and the media perceived frenzy about jed and his ohtani pursuit.

Hell, you went long and hard for a bieber threesome from cleveland, which wouldn't have been cheap player wise. To me, this past offseason, the Dodgers were in a position to unload aging 40-man prospects for a more talent certainty. 

Are we guaranteed 4 years of imanaga? I'm not an attorney and haven't read the fine print. I haven't heard jed say we are guaranteed 4 years of imanaga, but maybe he has?

Belli? Again the belief of deep cub pockets this year and the assumption the Cubs were going all in following counsell addition.

Triantos? Our minor league experts here didnt/don't expect his talents to translate to finer mlb success.

Brown? At the time, I would've included him in a glasnow deal and not hesitated.

This past offseason started with an explosion and then, just as fast, whimpered like a lamb.

I'd like to add, this was the most disappointing offseason as a cubfan for me in many many years

Edited June 5, 2024 by LBiittner

[Rcal10]

54 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

At the time glasnow was moved, everyone and I mean everyone, thought Jed would have deep pockets. Based on the counsell hire/ Ross castration and the media perceived frenzy about jed and his ohtani pursuit.

Hell, you went long and hard for a bieber threesome from cleveland, which wouldn't have been cheap player wise. To me, this past offseason, the Dodgers were in a position to unload aging 40-man prospects for a more talent certainty. 

Are we guaranteed 4 years of imanaga? I'm not an attorney and haven't read the fine print. I haven't heard jed say we are guaranteed 4 years of imanaga, but maybe he has?

Belli? Again the belief of deep cub pockets this year and the assumption the Cubs were going all in following counsell addition.

Triantos? Our minor league experts here didnt/don't expect his talents to translate to finer mlb success.

Brown? At the time, I would've included him in a glasnow deal and not hesitated.

This past offseason started with an explosion and then, just as fast, whimpered like a lamb.

I'd like to add, this was the most disappointing offseason as a cubfan for me in many many years

You asked how it looks now. And now, it looks like the right move not to have made that trade. Doesn’t matter what fans thought the Cubs would do or what they would spend. Obviously anyone who thought they would blow past the LT line was wrong. As for Imanaga, you are right, the Cubs haven’t committed to the 4 years yet. But they can. It is their option. 
So regardless of what fans thought the FO would do, it is pretty apparent that wasn’t their plan, unless against all odds, they got Ohtani. For him they would have stretched. Also, with him, Glasnow made more sense. Glasgow this year, he leaves and Ohtani takes his spot in the rotation. Once that failed they went back to spending under the LT. Which bring us right back to they are better off without that deal they they would have been with it. 

[Rcal10]

4 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

My guess is the Mets ask for someone like Caissie/Ballesteros which is an immediate hang up the phone response if I'm Jed.

The more I think about Alonso the more I really wonder what the Mets get for him. If they don’t trade him and then he leaves via FA, the Mets get a 4th round supplemental pick. 4th round. So in theory any offer better than that is something they should consider. Cubs got PCA for Baez and Trevor Williams. But PCA was coming off of arm surgery and hasn’t played in a year. And if the Cubs didn’t trade him they would have gotten a second round supplemental pick. PCA wasn’t the prospect he is today at that time. Granted, it was also an overpay. So that said, what does Pete cost. No way Cassie or Ballesteros. If that is their ask then you look elsewhere. If it is Canario, sure, you consider it. Maybe even add a lower leveL guy. It would make for some mixing and matching of other players, but in doing that it would strengthen the bench. As long as he doesn’t cost a lot, I would be ok with him. But, IMO, the Mets will find a team willing to part with more than the Cubs would part with. 

[LBiittner]

Alcantara untochable?

[Tryptamine]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

Alcantara untochable?

For Alonso? Yeah. The absolute highest I go up the prospect tree is Triantos and I'm not particularly thrilled about that either.

[Rcal10]

34 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

For Alonso? Yeah. The absolute highest I go up the prospect tree is Triantos and I'm not particularly thrilled about that either.

Definitely no on Alcantara. For that matter no on Triantos too. He is a borderline top 100 prospect for a one dimensional rental. No thank you. I do understand it makes sense to trade prospects for proven talent. But not a rental.