Blackhawks rebuild 2.0

[UMFan83]

The Blackhawks tried to lose on purpose. The player is under no obligation to make that process easier.

 

I didn't say he was. I'm just explaining why the return seems underwhelming to a casual.

[champaignchris]

3rd best Blackhawk ever (behind only Esposito and Mikita) if you trust Hockey Reference’s rankings. Easily the best Blackhawk of the last 30 years, without any real competition. 40 if you think he was better than Doug Wilson and Denis Savard (which I do).

[squally1313]

3rd best Blackhawk ever (behind only Esposito and Mikita) if you trust Hockey Reference’s rankings. Easily the best Blackhawk of the last 30 years, without any real competition. 40 if you think he was better than Doug Wilson and Denis Savard (which I do).

 

I know almost nothing about how that site puts together their metrics, but I'd put Keith right up there with him, especially if you discount just like, the cumulative stats Kane has put up after Keith left.

[champaignchris]

3rd best Blackhawk ever (behind only Esposito and Mikita) if you trust Hockey Reference’s rankings. Easily the best Blackhawk of the last 30 years, without any real competition. 40 if you think he was better than Doug Wilson and Denis Savard (which I do).

 

I know almost nothing about how that site puts together their metrics, but I'd put Keith right up there with him, especially if you discount just like, the cumulative stats Kane has put up after Keith left.

 

They base it on their “Goal Shares” metric.

 

They have Keith at #6 behind Hull and Hall, which puts him one spot ahead of Wilson as the best D-man in ‘Hawks history.

 

I don’t know how they calculate goal shares, but at least in the case of ranking the all-time Hawks, it doesn’t result in an absurd outcome.

[UMFan83]

I may get roasted for this but I never really figured out how to resolve my feelings towards Kane post-rape accusation. I know he wasn't charged and its long forgotten by a big chunk of the fanbase but its sort of always in the back of my mind when I think about Kane. I also didn't put a ton of research into it in recent years, perhaps he was absolved beyond a reasonable doubt in the court of public opinion and I just missed it because people don't just talk about it anymore.

[squally1313]

I may get roasted for this but I never really figured out how to resolve my feelings towards Kane post-rape accusation. I know he wasn't charged and its long forgotten by a big chunk of the fanbase but its sort of always in the back of my mind when I think about Kane. I also didn't put a ton of research into it in recent years, perhaps he was absolved beyond a reasonable doubt in the court of public opinion and I just missed it because people don't just talk about it anymore.

I remember getting (correctly) roasted pretty hard here when that story came out, since we're all in the spirit of reminiscing about past times here. Given the trainer story that came out after this, and the pretty universally accepted fact that everyone in the locker room at least knew about it, if not played a part in the cover up, you really 'should' just write that whole era off in terms of any of them being redeemable human beings (or, at the absolute most generous, anything beyond 'incredibly stupid young adults'). Everyone can decide for themselves how much it taints their memories from those Cup years, and how much this trade should impact you. It's going to be jarring seeing him in another uniform, and I'm already conflicted for when we inevitably bring him back, either in the offseason or by overpaying for him in a couple years. It would also be nicer if there was a single player from the current roster I thought was like, the leader of the next generation. But ultimately we've been clinging to Kane/Toews (and until recently, Keith/Crawford/etc), and it's been what...7 years since we won a meaningful playoff series? Hopefully this just marks an end to this era, and hopefully at some point they start meaningfully building towards the next successful one.

[champaignchris]

I may get roasted for this but I never really figured out how to resolve my feelings towards Kane post-rape accusation. I know he wasn't charged and its long forgotten by a big chunk of the fanbase but its sort of always in the back of my mind when I think about Kane. I also didn't put a ton of research into it in recent years, perhaps he was absolved beyond a reasonable doubt in the court of public opinion and I just missed it because people don't just talk about it anymore.

 

A contemporary story:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2584179-patrick-kane-under-investigation-for-rape-latest-details-comments-reaction.amp.html

 

The key quotes:

 

“"The totality of the credible evidence—the proof—does not sufficiently substantiate the complainant’s allegation that she was raped by Patrick Kane and this so-called 'case' is rife with reasonable doubt," Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III said in a statement.”

 

And

 

“DNA testing later called into question the veracity of the woman's claims. In addition, an allegation of tampering led to her initial attorney dropping her as a client.”

[champaignchris]

Reading between the lines on what’s been made public in the case:

 

The accuser was intoxicated at a party.

Patrick Kane was also at that party.

Someone had sex with the accuser at the party.

The accuser was probably not conscious enough to have given consent.

Based on the DNA, Patrick Kane was probably not the person who had sex with her.

 

Kane definitely lived a frat boy life during the first few years of his career. From what I’ve read, he started straightening out his off-ice habits after this incident.

[Irrelevant Dude]

I still expect them to re-sign Kane in the offseason.

 

Who is the "them" in this sentence? The Blackhawks or the Rangers?

[UMFan83]

I still expect them to re-sign Kane in the offseason.

 

Who is the "them" in this sentence? The Blackhawks or the Rangers?

 

Assume he means the Blackhawks. How many times has a prominent player in any sport been traded half way through their final season under contract and then returned in FA? It's happened before but seems like most of those cases are players who have played their whole career one place, then they realize its not bad playing for another team so they are more willing to sign elsewhere. If I was a betting man, Patrick Kane will never play another game for the Blackhawks again (Especially because Stan Bowman is no longer in charge). Think about it, the Hawks are like 3-5 years away from potentially being good again, why would a 35 year old Patrick Kane after experiencing the thrill of the NHL playoffs for the first time in more than half a decade (outside of the bubble), choose to sign back with a team still in the beginning stages of a rebuild?

[Brian707]

Chapman resigned with the Yankees. But I agree it's rare and if I were Kane I would not want to return here

[sweetpeteman]

I still expect them to re-sign Kane in the offseason.

 

Who is the "them" in this sentence? The Blackhawks or the Rangers?

 

Assume he means the Blackhawks. How many times has a prominent player in any sport been traded half way through their final season under contract and then returned in FA? It's happened before but seems like most of those cases are players who have played their whole career one place, then they realize its not bad playing for another team so they are more willing to sign elsewhere. If I was a betting man, Patrick Kane will never play another game for the Blackhawks again (Especially because Stan Bowman is no longer in charge). Think about it, the Hawks are like 3-5 years away from potentially being good again, why would a 35 year old Patrick Kane after experiencing the thrill of the NHL playoffs for the first time in more than half a decade (outside of the bubble), choose to sign back with a team still in the beginning stages of a rebuild?

 

 

I was thinking that while they're still a few years from competing, they still need to have a team and bringing back the fan favorite for his final years would make sense. It also seemed like Kane was looking to finish his career here and unlike other players, he may not care about chasing a cup at this point.

 

That being said, I am retracting my statement based on the statements released by the Blackhawks. They seem pretty much like this is the end, although that may just be them trying to avoid any tampering nonsense.

[UMFan83]

 

Who is the "them" in this sentence? The Blackhawks or the Rangers?

 

Assume he means the Blackhawks. How many times has a prominent player in any sport been traded half way through their final season under contract and then returned in FA? It's happened before but seems like most of those cases are players who have played their whole career one place, then they realize its not bad playing for another team so they are more willing to sign elsewhere. If I was a betting man, Patrick Kane will never play another game for the Blackhawks again (Especially because Stan Bowman is no longer in charge). Think about it, the Hawks are like 3-5 years away from potentially being good again, why would a 35 year old Patrick Kane after experiencing the thrill of the NHL playoffs for the first time in more than half a decade (outside of the bubble), choose to sign back with a team still in the beginning stages of a rebuild?

 

 

I was thinking that while they're still a few years from competing, they still need to have a team and bringing back the fan favorite for his final years would make sense. It also seemed like Kane was looking to finish his career here and unlike other players, he may not care about chasing a cup at this point.

 

That being said, I am retracting my statement based on the statements released by the Blackhawks. They seem pretty much like this is the end, although that may just be them trying to avoid any tampering nonsense.

 

I can see that stuff as an option down the road, but do I think its likely? no. Kane will find a new home and fan base to embrace him. Maybe if the circumstances align themselves for him to return but once he gets a taste of being on other teams I see it being less of a priority to him. We'll see.

 

and yeah their statements seem pretty definitive

[jersey cubs fan]

Chicago may own the 2025 draft. They got a 2nd for Domi.

[squally1313]

Man, we're going to be so good in 2028. Sometimes you just have to commit to not being a good hockey team for 11 or so years in order to get yourself in the right spot. I mean, look at Edmonton, they had high draft picks for a few years in a row and just look at all the success they've had.

[WrigleyField 22]

Man, we're going to be so good in 2028. Sometimes you just have to commit to not being a good hockey team for 11 or so years in order to get yourself in the right spot. I mean, look at Edmonton, they had high draft picks for a few years in a row and just look at all the success they've had.

Trust the process

[UMFan83]

Man, we're going to be so good in 2028. Sometimes you just have to commit to not being a good hockey team for 11 or so years in order to get yourself in the right spot. I mean, look at Edmonton, they had high draft picks for a few years in a row and just look at all the success they've had.

 

I just didn’t see a path forward after Bowman epically botched the 2021 offseason in a way that almost seemed like he was sabotaging the team. Rebuilds in hockey suck as hey have the strictest salary cap by far. You can’t just buy a good team and you can’t just cut players with bad contracts and save money like you can in the NFL. When a team finds itself in the position the Blackhawks were in, the most obvious path to contention is it tear it down and spend multiple years building it back up.

[jersey cubs fan]

Man, we're going to be so good in 2028. Sometimes you just have to commit to not being a good hockey team for 11 or so years in order to get yourself in the right spot. I mean, look at Edmonton, they had high draft picks for a few years in a row and just look at all the success they've had.

 

I just didn’t see a path forward after Bowman epically botched the 2021 offseason in a way that almost seemed like he was sabotaging the team. Rebuilds in hockey suck as hey have the strictest salary cap by far. You can’t just buy a good team and you can’t just cut players with bad contracts and save money like you can in the NFL. When a team finds itself in the position the Blackhawks were in, the most obvious path to contention is it tear it down and spend multiple years building it back up.

Except nobody has ever done it.

 

Good teams generally take a year or two to step back and reload. But rarely do they bottom out and start over. It takes a decade to rebuild a winner. You need a lot of good hockey players to win a lot of games.

[UMFan83]

Man, we're going to be so good in 2028. Sometimes you just have to commit to not being a good hockey team for 11 or so years in order to get yourself in the right spot. I mean, look at Edmonton, they had high draft picks for a few years in a row and just look at all the success they've had.

 

I just didn’t see a path forward after Bowman epically botched the 2021 offseason in a way that almost seemed like he was sabotaging the team. Rebuilds in hockey suck as hey have the strictest salary cap by far. You can’t just buy a good team and you can’t just cut players with bad contracts and save money like you can in the NFL. When a team finds itself in the position the Blackhawks were in, the most obvious path to contention is it tear it down and spend multiple years building it back up.

Except nobody has ever done it.

 

Good teams generally take a year or two to step back and reload. But rarely do they bottom out and start over. It takes a decade to rebuild a winner. You need a lot of good hockey players to win a lot of games.

 

The bottom of the league is littered with teams that were good in the 10's and are rebuilding. You are right that good teams can retool and be good again later on Teams like Boston and Pittsburgh seem to be perpetually good. But the Hawks under Bowman could never do that and instead found themselves in a positon where they were nowhere near good enough, had little draft capital, not many prospects, and a poor cap situation. The gut rebuild was the best path forward in their mind. Do I think they should have kept Debrincat and Dach and other young players? Yes, but even with them it was going to be a multi-year rebuild imo.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

I just didn’t see a path forward after Bowman epically botched the 2021 offseason in a way that almost seemed like he was sabotaging the team. Rebuilds in hockey suck as hey have the strictest salary cap by far. You can’t just buy a good team and you can’t just cut players with bad contracts and save money like you can in the NFL. When a team finds itself in the position the Blackhawks were in, the most obvious path to contention is it tear it down and spend multiple years building it back up.

Except nobody has ever done it.

 

Good teams generally take a year or two to step back and reload. But rarely do they bottom out and start over. It takes a decade to rebuild a winner. You need a lot of good hockey players to win a lot of games.

 

The bottom of the league is littered with teams that were good in the 10's and are rebuilding. You are right that good teams can retool and be good again later on Teams like Boston and Pittsburgh seem to be perpetually good. But the Hawks under Bowman could never do that and instead found themselves in a positon where they were nowhere near good enough, had little draft capital, not many prospects, and a poor cap situation. The gut rebuild was the best path forward in their mind. Do I think they should have kept Debrincat and Dach and other young players? Yes, but even with them it was going to be a multi-year rebuild imo.

The bad teams previously being good doesn’t mean anything.

The top of the league is littered with teams that have been good for a decade+ with the exception of a year or two. The tear down is easy. The rebuild is the problem. The devils spent two decades in mediocrity and are only just now finally good again. When Davidson says it’s going to be a long process, he’s probably underselling how long that will be.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This was all locked into place when we gave everyone from the dynasty reward contracts that had nothing to do with their future value

[UMFan83]

Except nobody has ever done it.

 

Good teams generally take a year or two to step back and reload. But rarely do they bottom out and start over. It takes a decade to rebuild a winner. You need a lot of good hockey players to win a lot of games.

 

The bottom of the league is littered with teams that were good in the 10's and are rebuilding. You are right that good teams can retool and be good again later on Teams like Boston and Pittsburgh seem to be perpetually good. But the Hawks under Bowman could never do that and instead found themselves in a positon where they were nowhere near good enough, had little draft capital, not many prospects, and a poor cap situation. The gut rebuild was the best path forward in their mind. Do I think they should have kept Debrincat and Dach and other young players? Yes, but even with them it was going to be a multi-year rebuild imo.

The bad teams previously being good doesn’t mean anything.

The top of the league is littered with teams that have been good for a decade+ with the exception of a year or two. The tear down is easy. The rebuild is the problem. The devils spent two decades in mediocrity and are only just now finally good again. When Davidson says it’s going to be a long process, he’s probably underselling how long that will be.

 

I agree, its going to take forever and it sucks. But there's 2 situations we're talking about: being a good team and balancing the future and the present to stay competitive, and being a good team with declining results and not much to fall back on. The Hawks were trying to be the former but I feel like Bowman put us in a position where a massive rebuild had to become the route forward. Maybe the Hawks could have kept their young guys, cut bait elsewhere and hoped to get better quicker but the margin for error is a lot less. If we fired Bowman before he could have executed that ridiculously bad offseason, we probably have better route to retool, but he massively set back the franchise several years with his moves.

 

Just my 2 cents...

[Tim]

Goony,

 

Are you saying that this was the wrong path to take now, or that it never should have come to this?

 

I definitely agree with the latter. I'm much less certain I agree with the former.

[jersey cubs fan]

Goony,

 

Are you saying that this was the wrong path to take now, or that it never should have come to this?

 

I definitely agree with the latter. I'm much less certain I agree with the former.

I think it’s shameful to tank professional sports seasons and that’s all Chicago teams do now. Every other big city team/organization manages to take a year or two step back before rebounding. Chicago has embraced the tank and should be embarrassed, but aren’t.

[jersey cubs fan]

This was all locked into place when we gave everyone from the dynasty reward contracts that had nothing to do with their future value

The Seabrook one is the only contract that truly bit them, and it was completely unnecessary and bad the day they signed it. But there were dozens of avoidable mistakes along the way that doomed them.