So...Now What?

[17 Seconds]

Does anyone think that Jed makes any kind of offer to Bryant, Rizzo or Javy? And if he does, will it be anything more than a BS offer to say that he tried? I can see a lowball offer made to KB, but that's about it.

 

This $30 million contract to Seager or Correa could have been offered to Bryant and then we would have not only an impact bat, but also would fill an actual hole (LF) that this team has. The money should be spent on the rotation first. A solid pitching staff keeps you in every game.

 

you would sign the worst/oldest player of the 3 just because nico hoerner exists?

[17 Seconds]

Does anyone think that Jed makes any kind of offer to Bryant, Rizzo or Javy? And if he does, will it be anything more than a BS offer to say that he tried? I can see a lowball offer made to KB, but that's about it.

 

I think there's a decent chance one of baez/rizzo come back

[Backtobanks]

Does anyone think that Jed makes any kind of offer to Bryant, Rizzo or Javy? And if he does, will it be anything more than a BS offer to say that he tried? I can see a lowball offer made to KB, but that's about it.

 

This $30 million contract to Seager or Correa could have been offered to Bryant and then we would have not only an impact bat, but also would fill an actual hole (LF) that this team has. The money should be spent on the rotation first. A solid pitching staff keeps you in every game.

 

you would sign the worst/oldest player of the 3 just because nico hoerner exists?

 

The point is that we have a team with a bunch of holes to fill. I think we need to fill those holes first before upgrading positions that are already filled by players like Happ, Hoerner, Wisdom, etc. and then deciding if they need to be upgraded. The obvious holes to fill are 2 SP, 1B, LF, and the bullpen. It's not like we're going to be contending next year.

[Rex Buckingham]

 

This $30 million contract to Seager or Correa could have been offered to Bryant and then we would have not only an impact bat, but also would fill an actual hole (LF) that this team has. The money should be spent on the rotation first. A solid pitching staff keeps you in every game.

 

you would sign the worst/oldest player of the 3 just because nico hoerner exists?

 

The point is that we have a team with a bunch of holes to fill. I think we need to fill those holes first before upgrading positions that are already filled by players like Happ, Hoerner, Wisdom, etc. and then deciding if they need to be upgraded. The obvious holes to fill are 2 SP, 1B, LF, and the bullpen. It's not like we're going to be contending next year.

 

There is literally one position player on the team I would guarantee a starting spot to if he is on the roster. Every other position should be looked at as a possible place to upgrade.

[17 Seconds]

 

This $30 million contract to Seager or Correa could have been offered to Bryant and then we would have not only an impact bat, but also would fill an actual hole (LF) that this team has. The money should be spent on the rotation first. A solid pitching staff keeps you in every game.

 

you would sign the worst/oldest player of the 3 just because nico hoerner exists?

 

The point is that we have a team with a bunch of holes to fill. I think we need to fill those holes first before upgrading positions that are already filled by players like Happ, Hoerner, Wisdom, etc. and then deciding if they need to be upgraded. The obvious holes to fill are 2 SP, 1B, LF, and the bullpen. It's not like we're going to be contending next year.

 

those positions aren't "filled". happ sucks, wisdom likely sucks, and hoerner could very well suck.

[squally1313]

 

you would sign the worst/oldest player of the 3 just because nico hoerner exists?

 

The point is that we have a team with a bunch of holes to fill. I think we need to fill those holes first before upgrading positions that are already filled by players like Happ, Hoerner, Wisdom, etc. and then deciding if they need to be upgraded. The obvious holes to fill are 2 SP, 1B, LF, and the bullpen. It's not like we're going to be contending next year.

 

those positions aren't "filled". happ sucks, wisdom likely sucks, and hoerner could very well suck.

 

And also your idea is to sign KB to play left field (move him, make his bat less valuable) but somehow Wisdom, Happ, and Hoerner, who have all played multiple positions, are somehow locked in.

[Backtobanks]

 

The point is that we have a team with a bunch of holes to fill. I think we need to fill those holes first before upgrading positions that are already filled by players like Happ, Hoerner, Wisdom, etc. and then deciding if they need to be upgraded. The obvious holes to fill are 2 SP, 1B, LF, and the bullpen. It's not like we're going to be contending next year.

 

those positions aren't "filled". happ sucks, wisdom likely sucks, and hoerner could very well suck.

 

And also your idea is to sign KB to play left field (move him, make his bat less valuable) but somehow Wisdom, Happ, and Hoerner, who have all played multiple positions, are somehow locked in.

 

KB can play 3B with Wisdom at 1B.

[Backtobanks]

 

you would sign the worst/oldest player of the 3 just because nico hoerner exists?

 

The point is that we have a team with a bunch of holes to fill. I think we need to fill those holes first before upgrading positions that are already filled by players like Happ, Hoerner, Wisdom, etc. and then deciding if they need to be upgraded. The obvious holes to fill are 2 SP, 1B, LF, and the bullpen. It's not like we're going to be contending next year.

 

those positions aren't "filled". happ sucks, wisdom likely sucks, and hoerner could very well suck.

 

The team sucks which is why they won't go overboard on spending this year. For those of you that believe this is a "retool" instead of a "rebuild", then the first thing Hoyer ought to do is trade players in our upper ml (like Amaya, etc.) for young ML or ML-ready talent. Hoerner deserves a chance to succeed or suck before we give up on him. Happ should get his last chance to go back to being productive if for no other reason than we really don't have another option until Davis is ready. Money is great, but you can't fill 7-8 spots in one year.

[d_money]

 

The point is that we have a team with a bunch of holes to fill. I think we need to fill those holes first before upgrading positions that are already filled by players like Happ, Hoerner, Wisdom, etc. and then deciding if they need to be upgraded. The obvious holes to fill are 2 SP, 1B, LF, and the bullpen. It's not like we're going to be contending next year.

 

those positions aren't "filled". happ sucks, wisdom likely sucks, and hoerner could very well suck.

 

The team sucks which is why they won't go overboard on spending this year. For those of you that believe this is a "retool" instead of a "rebuild", then the first thing Hoyer ought to do is trade players in our upper ml (like Amaya, etc.) for young ML or ML-ready talent. Hoerner deserves a chance to succeed or suck before we give up on him. Happ should get his last chance to go back to being productive if for no other reason than we really don't have another option until Davis is ready. Money is great, but you can't fill 7-8 spots in one year.

I know you were using Amaya as an example but their not gonna trade him until they have an extension in place with Contreras. If not, they’ll continue to develop him

[squally1313]

I don’t mind most of that besides the outfield still being a mess, especially with KB having to cover left field and also first base…

 

For me get rid of the Happ/Trammell trade. And then you got to be pretty sure of yourself to give up that package for a starter with one year left. Give me (Corey) Seager and KB and figure it out from there.

[Backtobanks]

OK, I'm trying this offseason thing. So I've got very little interest in shopping at the top of the pitching market, like Stroman and the available future HOFers (Verlander, Greinke, Kershaw, Scherzer) but all the teams who stuck around for the second half of 2021 are looking for SPs too. This offseason is more about putting together a team the guy sitting around in February/March (coughVerlandercough) might be interested in joining, fixing up the defense, build up some ML depth, and putting the onus on that big leap in player development processes Hoyer felt very confident they made during 2020 to drive the team moving forward with a couple star FA signings and a trade to make it look pretty

 

Extend: Willson Contreras

 

FAs

 

Corey Seager SS/2B- Do I think he's the FA most likely to take a Semien-esque one year deal? Yes, yes I do. Either way, going after Seager seems like a duh move with the table all cleared. LHH, SS, only 28 next year, good approach, career .362 OBP, should be able to handle a LeMahieu-esque 2B/1B role during the back half of a longer contract, great prospect too

 

Kris Bryant 1B/3B/OF - Yes, a reunion! For baseball reasons! The Cubs being devoid of any elite power hitting prospects playing 3B or 1B (or in general), plus the ugly OF situation, should make a Bryant reunion pretty desirable. Notsodeepdown we all know the waves and waves of He's Not That Good content will continue to be wildly successful through his FA where he'll sign relatively cheap. I'm assuming years will be high most for cap/tax/whatever they're going to end up calling it purposes. Like Seager, I have tons of confidence he's going to hit and maybe even there's something to finally getting through this FA nonsense after a half decade+ long hullabaloo that's really mostly about Future top NCAA picks

 

Kyle Seager 3B/1B - Underrated MLer with nearly 40 career WAR, signs cheap off a down year to play with his brother for his age 34 season, LHH

 

Michael Lorenzen RHSP/RHP - One of my favorite FA fits for the Cubs. I like sniping from division opponents and Lorenzen's one of the younger and more physically gifted pitchers in FA. He's maybe the hardest thrower, top overall athlete,has a SP's pitch mix, and he's played probably every role on the staff while maintaining a healthy arm and a stated desire to start. He's got a more unique background than most having been considered a potential first rounder as a CF/OF and RHP coming out of college too. His four seam (avg 97), changeup, slider, and cutter show serious potential and the curveball isn't necessarily a bad pitch either. I'd be comfortable going something like $4/40-4/48

 

Andrew Heaney LHSP - Impressive whiff rates on his four seam, dropped the sinker after May and has posted a 27% K rate and 20% K-BB with the 4 seam creeping up to 92. Here for innings and a chance to maybe go on a Wade Miley-esque run, another 1 year deal. He's given up 9 HRs in just 22 innings as a Yankees and 81 over his last ~450 ML innings, so at least

 

Multiple from this pool (easily expanded after Hembree by releases, NTs, MiLB FA maybe) coming off an ugly or injured year/years:

 

Kirby Yates CL - Didn't pitch in 2021, rehabbing an elbow injury with the Blue Jays possibly with non-surgery techniques

Hansel Robles RHRP - Averaged 97 on the FB this year with a couple secondaries

Daniel Norris LHRP - Ugly season but velocity's jumped from 91 in 2019 to 93 in 2021 with a couple other good things

Heath Hembree RHRP - Velocity resurgence, 5 pitch reliever

Sam Howard LHRP - Very productive MiLB pitcher, averaging a career high 94 for the Pirates as a lefty, four seam and slider have some use

 

Trades

 

- Nico Hoerner 2B, a MiL SP (Nahas, Chalmes, Sanders?) to the Mariners for Taylor Trammell CF/LF, Justus Sheffield LHSP, Brandon Williamson LHP, Shed Long IF/OF

 

I've liked the Hoerner for the Mariners for an OF prospect match well enough for a while. Seattle could use a long term 2B, Hoerner would pair with Crawford to make one of the better defensive MIFs whenever he's healthy. Trammell's 24 next year, struggled during an extended debut but showed some skills, and may find himself buried behind the OF of Rodriguez/Kelenic/Haniger this offseason. He's still got starting potential, played good defense in CF/LF during his callup too, but may need a little more AAA time. Williamson's got some good breaking stuff and could be a multi-role Seth Lugo kind of arm, Long's here for a LHH off the bench

 

- Ian Happ OF/2B, Caleb Kilian RHSP, Owen Caissie, Cory Abbott RHSP, OF/1B, Nelson Velazquez CF/OF to the A's for Sean Manaea LHP, Ramon Laureano CF

 

Manaea's a FA in 2023 with an in-house option in Puk possibly finally a little more stable, plus Kilian and Abbott adds a couple upper minors SP prospects capable of playing up in their bigger park. Laureano's arb eligible for the first time along with Chapman and Olson plus is coming off an 80 game suspension, but also plays outstanding CF defense and can hit a little. Oakland's panhandling for stadium money right now so maybe they don't move anyone expecting a big day from the taxpayers?

 

Depth:

 

C - Contreras, Sandy Leon (FA)

1B - Bryant, Seager, Rivas/Deichmann

2B - Madrigal, Bote, Long

SS - Seager, Madrigal

3B - Seager, Bryant, Bote, Long

 

LF: Bryant, Rivas/Deichmann, Hermosillo, Trammell, Davis

CF: Laureano, Bryant, Hermosillo, Trammell, Davis

RF: Heyward, Bryant, Hermosillo, Davis

 

Hendricks

Manaea

Lorenzen

Heaney

Sheffield

Alzolay

Steele

Thompson

Williamson

Jensen

Surprise Guy (Gallardo? Wicks?)

 

Yates

Wick

Heuer

Norris

Robles

Hembree

Wieck

M. Rodriguez

Alzolay

Sheffield

Howard

Steele

Thompson

Williamson

So on

 

A couple of decent ideas in there, but as I've pointed out before the money spent seems out of line with what I think PTR is willing to spend. Extending Contreras and signing C. Seager and Bryant is a ton money alone. I agree Kyle Seager will take a pay cut because of a poor season and age, but he was making $18 million. I like the idea of of trading some young players/prospects in the Oakland deal, but as contenders are they going to trade away two reasonably young players that are still under control?

[muntjack]

That team will set the record for fewest HRs in the live ball era.

[Backtobanks]

Lorenzen would be a great addition. Not only to the pitching staff, but the offense too (LOL). As for Barnhart, there's no way the Reds let him go on a $7.5 million club option.

[jersey cubs fan]

For those thinking Nico was ever going to be an everyday shortstop

 

[jersey cubs fan]

For those thinking Nico was ever going to be an everyday shortstop

 

[Backtobanks]

Hoerner had a late July oblique injury, right? Ooph

 

 

Lorenzen would be a great addition. Not only to the pitching staff, but the offense too (LOL). As for Barnhart, there's no way the Reds let him go on a $7.5 million club option.

 

The Barnhart situation is interesting. The Reds don't spend, have an obvious replacement in Tyler Stephenson, can get a good backup for cheaper than $7.5, and were shopping and/or considering NT'ing Barnhart while in the Realmuto trade hunt a couple years ago. OTOH he's an effective enough LHH and a GG candidate at catcher and having Stephenson as the cheap backup who also lets them rest Votto some is something that is working out really really well

 

If they want to go with Stephenson, they should pick up the option and trade Barnhart. I'm sure lots of teams would love to have a solid, 1st string catcher for $7.5 million and probably get a decent return.

[mias_tisg]

For those thinking Nico was ever going to be an everyday shortstop

 

Shut him down. No point to trying to get him back this year.

[Bertz]

 

This is going to be a large but underrated part of the decision making this winter. By my count, the Cubs have 46 guys currently on the 40 man roster or the 60 Day IL. 7 of those are FAs, so we're entering the offseason at 39.

 

From Bryan's article, I see 5 "must save" guys: Roberts, Velazquez, Rivas, Sanders, Little. There's also probably another guy or three that Bryan highlights that the team likes more than I/we do and they're planning to protect (Manny Rodriguez was one of these two years ago). So the team likely needs to free up ~7 spots, PLUS however much they plan on adding via FA. Potentially as many as 10-12 guys need to be dealt with.

 

With the team being this bad, there is obviously plenty of flotsam on the roster. I count 4 very easy cuts: Holder, Jewell, Meisinger, and Sampson. And there's 6 more still fairly easy cuts: Brothers, Maples, Nance, Stewart, Higgins, Alcantara. So that's potentially the 10 right there. But I do think we see some trade action in November that helps alleviate the issue.

[CubinNY]

 

This is going to be a large but underrated part of the decision making this winter. By my count, the Cubs have 46 guys currently on the 40 man roster or the 60 Day IL. 7 of those are FAs, so we're entering the offseason at 39.

 

From Bryan's article, I see 5 "must save" guys: Roberts, Velazquez, Rivas, Sanders, Little. There's also probably another guy or three that Bryan highlights that the team likes more than I/we do and they're planning to protect (Manny Rodriguez was one of these two years ago). So the team likely needs to free up ~7 spots, PLUS however much they plan on adding via FA. Potentially as many as 10-12 guys need to be dealt with.

 

With the team being this bad, there is obviously plenty of flotsam on the roster. I count 4 very easy cuts: Holder, Jewell, Meisinger, and Sampson. And there's 6 more still fairly easy cuts: Brothers, Maples, Nance, Stewart, Higgins, Alcantara. So that's potentially the 10 right there. But I do think we see some trade action in November that helps alleviate the issue.

 

I don't really understand how all of this works, but is this a reason why depth in a system is less important than star power?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

This is going to be a large but underrated part of the decision making this winter. By my count, the Cubs have 46 guys currently on the 40 man roster or the 60 Day IL. 7 of those are FAs, so we're entering the offseason at 39.

 

From Bryan's article, I see 5 "must save" guys: Roberts, Velazquez, Rivas, Sanders, Little. There's also probably another guy or three that Bryan highlights that the team likes more than I/we do and they're planning to protect (Manny Rodriguez was one of these two years ago). So the team likely needs to free up ~7 spots, PLUS however much they plan on adding via FA. Potentially as many as 10-12 guys need to be dealt with.

 

With the team being this bad, there is obviously plenty of flotsam on the roster. I count 4 very easy cuts: Holder, Jewell, Meisinger, and Sampson. And there's 6 more still fairly easy cuts: Brothers, Maples, Nance, Stewart, Higgins, Alcantara. So that's potentially the 10 right there. But I do think we see some trade action in November that helps alleviate the issue.

 

I don't really understand how all of this works, but is this a reason why depth in a system is less important than star power?

 

They overlap in several ways, but I would think of this as star power raises the ceiling, depth raises the floor. In general star power is more important because it's harder to find and keep, but having depth makes it easier to build a roster and work around constraints(finances, injuries, imperfect skill sets on the roster, etc) and take more chances to find star power.

[Bertz]

 

This is going to be a large but underrated part of the decision making this winter. By my count, the Cubs have 46 guys currently on the 40 man roster or the 60 Day IL. 7 of those are FAs, so we're entering the offseason at 39.

 

From Bryan's article, I see 5 "must save" guys: Roberts, Velazquez, Rivas, Sanders, Little. There's also probably another guy or three that Bryan highlights that the team likes more than I/we do and they're planning to protect (Manny Rodriguez was one of these two years ago). So the team likely needs to free up ~7 spots, PLUS however much they plan on adding via FA. Potentially as many as 10-12 guys need to be dealt with.

 

With the team being this bad, there is obviously plenty of flotsam on the roster. I count 4 very easy cuts: Holder, Jewell, Meisinger, and Sampson. And there's 6 more still fairly easy cuts: Brothers, Maples, Nance, Stewart, Higgins, Alcantara. So that's potentially the 10 right there. But I do think we see some trade action in November that helps alleviate the issue.

 

I don't really understand how all of this works, but is this a reason why depth in a system is less important than star power?

 

A bit. The limits of roster size definitely make it so it's more difficult to sit on an entire horde of prospects. Generally though I think it's more that star prospects are higher probability and tend to be significantly more valuable. You need to hit on like 3-4 Ian Happs to equal one Kris Bryant.

 

I think more specifically, it's why the Cubs did so well in the Rizzo and Marisnick deals. Vizcaino (the pitcher in the Rizzo deal) and Espinoza (the pitcher in the Marisnick deal) are both in A+ ball but already on the 40 man. I think they're much better talent than the Cubs should have gotten, but the reason they were able to net them is that the Padres and especially the Yankees were facing 40 man crunch issues.

[UMFan83]

This hurts

 

https://imgur.com/nt9HMca

 

Mets were flying home from LA

[chopsx9]

This hurts

 

 

 

Mets were flying home from LA

Got a new delivery of Funkos for the store and this was on top:

:bye:

[17 Seconds]

i think he's coming back as long as he doesn't do anything special with the mets

[UMFan83]

 

Thought this was interesting. No idea if this the route they will go but would be interesting to see the Cubs sign a bunch of vets to 1-2 year contracts with the intent to sell and further ramp up the farm system.