Jon Lester

[Brian]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

The only complaint I have about the video is ignoring WS Game 5.

[Bear Cub]

He will always be a Cub favorite.

[squally1313]

Appreciation for him has definitely increased lately for me. In 2015 it was Jake, and in 2016 Hendricks won the ERA title and had the NLCS start and pitched pretty well in game 7, and still the first thing I see when I think Lester game 7 is the ball bouncing off Ross' head. But looking at the dumpster pile of a rotation we have now, it's pretty incredible what he did those 2 years, every 5th day, while pretty clearly taking leadership of the team from day one. Gutting his way through the 2017 playoffs with a 1.88 ERA he in no way deserved, and then pulling out a vintage start in the one game playoff in 2018. Legend, and hope he finds his way back to the organization (and hopefully it's a post-Ricketts era).

[ConstableRabbit]

Appreciation for him has definitely increased lately for me. In 2015 it was Jake, and in 2016 Hendricks won the ERA title and had the NLCS start and pitched pretty well in game 7, and still the first thing I see when I think Lester game 7 is the ball bouncing off Ross' head. But looking at the dumpster pile of a rotation we have now, it's pretty incredible what he did those 2 years, every 5th day, while pretty clearly taking leadership of the team from day one. Gutting his way through the 2017 playoffs with a 1.88 ERA he in no way deserved, and then pulling out a vintage start in the one game playoff in 2018. Legend, and hope he finds his way back to the organization (and hopefully it's a post-Ricketts era).

Lester was incredible in Game 7

[seanimal]

man they did him dirty. jon lester is an all-time great chicago cub and it does not require an ounce of sentimentality to arrive at that conclusion

[Brian]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

[Bertz]

My wife had part of her Thyroid removed. It's more of a minor surgery than you'd think, but she was not back to normal energy-wise for months. There's a lot of trial and error in figuring out the right dosage on the meds.

[Old Style]

Now that Jonny has retired let the debate begin. Is he a HOFer?

[Cubswin11]

Now that Jonny has retired let the debate begin. Is he a HOFer?

By the “traditional” standards of what the morons who run the HOF go by he falls short a little bit. Imo. But by modern metrics and standards he absolutely belongs in. If he doesn’t get in the bar to get in with where pitching is at and moving to will mean almost not pitchers ever get in.

[Bertz]

Now that Jonny has retired let the debate begin. Is he a HOFer?

 

I'd lean no? Regular season he's a clear "Hall of Very Good" type, but his postseason record is incredible. 154 innings of a 2.54 ERA is nuts, and IMO is going to make him a very hard case.

[UMFan83]

He seems like he's a guy the veteran's committee is going to love, but that's just a gut feeling.

 

I now use the Harold Baines Test for evaluating Hall of Famers. He definitely passes the Harold Baines Test.

 

 

Follow up question: If he did make the HOF, does he wear a Red Sox, Cubs or blank cap? I'd say Red Sox is more likely than Cubs (more seasons, original team, 2 WS vs 1, etc), but most likely a blank cap

[UMFan83]

Some Lester memories with the Cubs

 

[Rob]

He seems like he's a guy the veteran's committee is going to love, but that's just a gut feeling.

 

I now use the Harold Baines Test for evaluating Hall of Famers. He definitely passes the Harold Baines Test.

 

 

Follow up question: If he did make the HOF, does he wear a Red Sox, Cubs or blank cap? I'd say Red Sox is more likely than Cubs (more seasons, original team, 2 WS vs 1, etc), but most likely a blank cap

 

I don't think we can use the Harold Baines test.

 

It was an awful choice, positively awful. But if we lower the bar that low, the Hall of Fame will double or triple in size.

 

Baines had the same career fWAR as Aramis Ramirez and Placido Polanco. He's behind Ryan Zimmerman, Alfonso Soriano, Gary Gaetti, Miguel Tejada, Ray Lankford, Chuck Knoblauch, David Justice, and Reggie Sanders(!). Do we really think all of those guys should be Hall of Famers?

 

On the pitching side we're looking at Brad Radke, Jose Rijo, Bob Welch, Derek Lowe, Dan Haren, A.J. Burnett, John Lackey, and Jake Peavy all having had more career value than Baines. I liked those guys, but not a one of them is a deserving Hall of Famer.

 

Lester was better than any of those guys. But let's have the evaluation be about whether he's deserving or not compared to the other decent pitching selections -- not whether he's better than one of the worst Veteran's Committee selections.

[UMFan83]

He seems like he's a guy the veteran's committee is going to love, but that's just a gut feeling.

 

I now use the Harold Baines Test for evaluating Hall of Famers. He definitely passes the Harold Baines Test.

 

 

Follow up question: If he did make the HOF, does he wear a Red Sox, Cubs or blank cap? I'd say Red Sox is more likely than Cubs (more seasons, original team, 2 WS vs 1, etc), but most likely a blank cap

 

I don't think we can use the Harold Baines test.

 

It was an awful choice, positively awful. But if we lower the bar that low, the Hall of Fame will double or triple in size.

 

Baines had the same career fWAR as Aramis Ramirez and Placido Polanco. He's behind Ryan Zimmerman, Alfonso Soriano, Gary Gaetti, Miguel Tejada, Ray Lankford, Chuck Knoblauch, David Justice, and Reggie Sanders(!). Do we really think all of those guys should be Hall of Famers?

 

On the pitching side we're looking at Brad Radke, Jose Rijo, Bob Welch, Derek Lowe, Dan Haren, A.J. Burnett, John Lackey, and Jake Peavy all having had more career value than Baines. I liked those guys, but not a one of them is a deserving Hall of Famer.

 

Lester was better than any of those guys. But let's have the evaluation be about whether he's deserving or not compared to the other decent pitching selections -- not whether he's better than one of the worst Veteran's Committee selections.

 

Sorry if I didn't explain it better but the Harold Baines test is (to me) a barometer of whether the player has a shot at making the HOF, not whether a player deserves to be in the HOF

[OleMissCub]

Seems like a guy who gets in with the Vets Committee.

[Bertz]

[Brian]

dual retire 34

[champaignchris]

If you’re going to make a Veterans Committee comparison, I’d make it to Tony Oliva. Fantastic, although a little short peak, with not much outside of that peak.

 

Your prototypical BWAA Hall of Fame pick generally has an unimpeachable 8-10 year peak, and then another 8-10 years of solid performance split between either side of that peak. Lester does not have that.

 

What Lester has going for him - personal story of cancer survivor, played in media heavy markets Boston and Chicago, 3 WS rings, especially 2016 - someone from that 2016 team is going to be in the HoF, a fantastic post season record, well-liked and respected by pretty much everyone who ever played with/against him.

[CubinNY]

If you’re going to make a Veterans Committee comparison, I’d make it to Tony Oliva. Fantastic, although a little short peak, with not much outside of that peak.

 

Your prototypical BWAA Hall of Fame pick generally has an unimpeachable 8-10 year peak, and then another 8-10 years of solid performance split between either side of that peak. Lester does not have that.

 

What Lester has going for him - personal story of cancer survivor, played in media heavy markets Boston and Chicago, 3 WS rings, especially 2016 - someone from that 2016 team is going to be in the HoF, a fantastic post season record, well-liked and respected by pretty much everyone who ever played with/against him.

He's probably the only one on the 2016 team with a shot at sniffing the HOF unless Bryant goes on a 5-year binge of MVP-level play.

[UMFan83]

If you’re going to make a Veterans Committee comparison, I’d make it to Tony Oliva. Fantastic, although a little short peak, with not much outside of that peak.

 

Your prototypical BWAA Hall of Fame pick generally has an unimpeachable 8-10 year peak, and then another 8-10 years of solid performance split between either side of that peak. Lester does not have that.

 

What Lester has going for him - personal story of cancer survivor, played in media heavy markets Boston and Chicago, 3 WS rings, especially 2016 - someone from that 2016 team is going to be in the HoF, a fantastic post season record, well-liked and respected by pretty much everyone who ever played with/against him.

 

I don't see a likely HOFer there in that 2016 team, but obviously things can change. These 5 are probably the most likely but I wouldn't give any of them more than maybe 20% odds at best

 

Bryant

Lester

Hendricks

Chapman

Nathan (lol)

 

I wouldn't even put Maddon in there as he's only going to be managing a few more years and only has 1 WS (albeit a very meaningful one)

[Rob]

If you’re going to make a Veterans Committee comparison, I’d make it to Tony Oliva. Fantastic, although a little short peak, with not much outside of that peak.

 

Your prototypical BWAA Hall of Fame pick generally has an unimpeachable 8-10 year peak, and then another 8-10 years of solid performance split between either side of that peak. Lester does not have that.

 

What Lester has going for him - personal story of cancer survivor, played in media heavy markets Boston and Chicago, 3 WS rings, especially 2016 - someone from that 2016 team is going to be in the HoF, a fantastic post season record, well-liked and respected by pretty much everyone who ever played with/against him.

He's probably the only one on the 2016 team with a shot at sniffing the HOF unless Bryant goes on a 5-year binge of MVP-level play.

 

There are plenty of other options. Ross could manage his way in. Zobrist is a tiny white grinder who the veteran's committee might love if they ever figure out stats. John Lackey's career isn't that dissimilar for Lester's. Bryant or Aroldis Chapman could still get there on the merits. Rizzo and Hendricks seem the type of guys who might rack up enough longevity to fool a veteran's era committee. The path is harder to see for guys like Baez, but there's still some slight chance he pops off enough to make it happen.

 

But honestly, there's a guy who was on that team who has what is probably a better case than any of those other guys, including Lester.

 

Everybody forgets about it, but Joe Nathan threw two innings for us that season.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

No

[Derwood]

Some people thought Mike Mussina was an iffy selection to the Hall, and Mussina has nearly double the career fWAR of Lester

[ChiCubsFan]

Greatest free agent acquisition in Chicago sports history.

[imb]

200 wins 2400 Ks and world series wins with boston and the cubs. he'll get in