Week 17 Chezhead McGees vs Bears

[raw]

 

I don’t know about very very mediocre. They were ranked 7th in the league in defensive DVOA going into this week, maybe there are better stats out there to evaluate defense, feel free to suggest. But your remarks on the individual players are valid, so maybe as a collective unit they hold their own but their individual pieces are not at the level were at 2 years ago. Still think the secondary is a strong unit but are often burdened by a lack of pass rush.

 

Jaylon Johnson has potential but for every big play he’s made, he’s countered with a glaring mistake. But he’s a rookie and I like what I’ve seen

 

The defense is fine. The NFL is not catered to defenses carrying teams, and hasn't been for a while, hence why the Bears have made the playoffs like 5 times in 25 years. Every 5 years or so they find the needle in the haystack that is an offense carried to the playoffs by an elite defense.

 

Roquan is great. Goldman is coming back. Johnson and Nichols are solid building blocks. Fuller is solid and should be extended for a lower cap hit. For next year, gotta hope for better health for guys like Mack and Quinn. And you gotta hope a change in scheme (new DC) brings back whatever has happened to Eddie Jackson. I'm sure they'll keep Hicks around since everyone else is coming back (I'd probably release him and get 10.5M in cap space), but then after 2021 you can get out the Hicks, Quinn, and Trevathan deals.

 

Either way, they should be a top 12 unit in DVOA again next year. Maybe a new DC and health gets them back to rushing the passer and creating turnovers more consistently, and they get back to a top 5 unit. But even if not, they should be good enough to win games if they get a halfway decent offense.

If they do make a change in the D, I just want to get out ahead and say it should be a broad search and it can be a 3-4 or 4-3 guy. I think a few guys like Mack and Quinn may actually be better in a 4-3 and most of their rotation guys are FA anyways even if they were scheme dependent.

 

Yeah doesn't matter what scheme they run other than the fact they'd probably need more off the ball LBs than they currently have. But I will say I'd like them to give Jay Rodgers an interview at DC. He's spanned the Fox and Nagy regimes. He came over with Fox and has done a great job developing guys at his position (Hicks from average to stud, RRH a UDFA, Nichols a 5th rounder, Goldman; Edwards, Urban, and Nick Williams have had their best years with him). And the other Fangio assistant that became a DC has the #1 D in LA in his first season.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

The defense is fine. The NFL is not catered to defenses carrying teams, and hasn't been for a while, hence why the Bears have made the playoffs like 5 times in 25 years. Every 5 years or so they find the needle in the haystack that is an offense carried to the playoffs by an elite defense.

 

Roquan is great. Goldman is coming back. Johnson and Nichols are solid building blocks. Fuller is solid and should be extended for a lower cap hit. For next year, gotta hope for better health for guys like Mack and Quinn. And you gotta hope a change in scheme (new DC) brings back whatever has happened to Eddie Jackson. I'm sure they'll keep Hicks around since everyone else is coming back (I'd probably release him and get 10.5M in cap space), but then after 2021 you can get out the Hicks, Quinn, and Trevathan deals.

 

Either way, they should be a top 12 unit in DVOA again next year. Maybe a new DC and health gets them back to rushing the passer and creating turnovers more consistently, and they get back to a top 5 unit. But even if not, they should be good enough to win games if they get a halfway decent offense.

If they do make a change in the D, I just want to get out ahead and say it should be a broad search and it can be a 3-4 or 4-3 guy. I think a few guys like Mack and Quinn may actually be better in a 4-3 and most of their rotation guys are FA anyways even if they were scheme dependent.

 

Yeah doesn't matter what scheme they run other than the fact they'd probably need more off the ball LBs than they currently have. But I will say I'd like them to give Jay Rodgers an interview at DC. He's spanned the Fox and Nagy regimes. He came over with Fox and has done a great job developing guys at his position (Hicks from average to stud, RRH a UDFA, Nichols a 5th rounder, Goldman; Edwards, Urban, and Nick Williams have had their best years with him). And the other Fangio assistant that became a DC has the #1 D in LA in his first season.

Yea Jay Rodgers for sure would be worth interviewing. With his time in Denver he had 4-3 experience, so perhaps he'd even run a true hybrid scheme.

 

I also don't know if there's anything to it, but the other month I had come across some article about young names to watch as HC candidates, and Sean Desai's name was on the list. He goes all the way back to the Trestman regime, but this is only his second year as a position coach, and it's "just" safeties at that. Anyways I was surprised when I had seen it, but maybe there's something there?

[gflore34]

Getting back to the game for a moment I have to think there was plenty of anger for Nagy' ineptitude as a play caller. You've got a fourth and one on a drive with a chance to the lead, you've run it down their throats to convert previous fourth downs. There's an excellent chance you'll be able to run it down their throats again regardless of what the Packers do and you put in the hands of your QB who, to put it mildly, has trouble executing against average defenses. With the predictable result that he fails to execute, part of the Packer game plan has to be just sit back and let the Bears shoot themselves in the foot. Next game vs. the Packers I really hope someone makes a piss yellow and green smear out of Amos well, not really but, a clean obliterating hit would be nice.

[CoolHandLuke]

Was the amos hit dirty? A lot of people seemed mad at him for... playing football.

[WrigleyField 22]

Running it down their throats I think is putting it fairly optimistically. Yes they'd converted, but they didn't look particularly strong at it. So. I can get behind a pass. I can even get behind shotgun. But the sprint out, basically one route read felt terribly scripted and forced. Even if there was a missed pick, I don't love it. Throw in an RPO of you want to keep GB on their toes from crowding the line on a dive or sneak.

[WrigleyField 22]

Was the amos hit dirty? A lot of people seemed mad at him for... playing football.

Not at all IMO.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Was the amos hit dirty? A lot of people seemed mad at him for... playing football.

 

no, it was a clean hit. I was just mad because I like Mooney so much and didn't want to see him injured. That, and since Amos was a Bear, it feels a bit "traitor-y"

[minnesotacubsfan]

Running it down their throats I think is putting it fairly optimistically. Yes they'd converted, but they didn't look particularly strong at it. So. I can get behind a pass. I can even get behind shotgun. But the sprint out, basically one route read felt terribly scripted and forced. Even if there was a missed pick, I don't love it. Throw in an RPO of you want to keep GB on their toes from crowding the line on a dive or sneak.

 

 

I agree with this, Graham f'ed his responsibility but the play design was stupid to begin with, at least for a 4th down.

[Soul]

Getting back to the game for a moment I have to think there was plenty of anger for Nagy' ineptitude as a play caller. You've got a fourth and one on a drive with a chance to the lead, you've run it down their throats to convert previous fourth downs. There's an excellent chance you'll be able to run it down their throats again regardless of what the Packers do and you put in the hands of your QB who, to put it mildly, has trouble executing against average defenses. With the predictable result that he fails to execute, part of the Packer game plan has to be just sit back and let the Bears shoot themselves in the foot. Next game vs. the Packers I really hope someone makes a piss yellow and green smear out of Amos well, not really but, a clean obliterating hit would be nice.

 

I've criticized the Bears way too many times for running the ball up the middle to freak out over them deciding to do something different, especially after doing it on that very drive. That just seems like being upset over the loss and finding one thing that could have gone better, and heaping the whole thing on it.

 

If people really think the game hinged upon the Bears running the conservative play, then maybe they should have just taken the FG. It would have put the Bears 2 points down.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Getting back to the game for a moment I have to think there was plenty of anger for Nagy' ineptitude as a play caller. You've got a fourth and one on a drive with a chance to the lead, you've run it down their throats to convert previous fourth downs. There's an excellent chance you'll be able to run it down their throats again regardless of what the Packers do and you put in the hands of your QB who, to put it mildly, has trouble executing against average defenses. With the predictable result that he fails to execute, part of the Packer game plan has to be just sit back and let the Bears shoot themselves in the foot. Next game vs. the Packers I really hope someone makes a piss yellow and green smear out of Amos well, not really but, a clean obliterating hit would be nice.

 

I've criticized the Bears way too many times for running the ball up the middle to freak out over them deciding to do something different, especially after doing it on that very drive. That just seems like being upset over the loss and finding one thing that could have gone better, and heaping the whole thing on it.

 

If people really think the game hinged upon the Bears running the conservative play, then maybe they should have just taken the FG. It would have put the Bears 2 points down.

 

I wouldn't have faulted them for trying to run it on that 4th, they were having success doing so on previous 4ths. But it just points out the lunacy of Nagys game plan: ie run up the middle then try a stupid pick play on a 4th and short. Why? Why not try a roll out or play action on 1st down instead?

[WrigleyField 22]

Getting back to the game for a moment I have to think there was plenty of anger for Nagy' ineptitude as a play caller. You've got a fourth and one on a drive with a chance to the lead, you've run it down their throats to convert previous fourth downs. There's an excellent chance you'll be able to run it down their throats again regardless of what the Packers do and you put in the hands of your QB who, to put it mildly, has trouble executing against average defenses. With the predictable result that he fails to execute, part of the Packer game plan has to be just sit back and let the Bears shoot themselves in the foot. Next game vs. the Packers I really hope someone makes a piss yellow and green smear out of Amos well, not really but, a clean obliterating hit would be nice.

 

I've criticized the Bears way too many times for running the ball up the middle to freak out over them deciding to do something different, especially after doing it on that very drive. That just seems like being upset over the loss and finding one thing that could have gone better, and heaping the whole thing on it.

 

If people really think the game hinged upon the Bears running the conservative play, then maybe they should have just taken the FG. It would have put the Bears 2 points down.

FG would have been bad. Trying to keep GB from scoring would have been hard enough. They could have ran out the clock. Unless you were gonna go for the FG and just onside it.

 

Basically they were always going need an "extra" possession to beat GB. They actually got that extra position in the 1st half, but they only got a FG out of it. I actually think they arguably should have gone for the TD at the end of the half too.

[gflore34]

Getting back to the game for a moment I have to think there was plenty of anger for Nagy' ineptitude as a play caller. You've got a fourth and one on a drive with a chance to the lead, you've run it down their throats to convert previous fourth downs. There's an excellent chance you'll be able to run it down their throats again regardless of what the Packers do and you put in the hands of your QB who, to put it mildly, has trouble executing against average defenses. With the predictable result that he fails to execute, part of the Packer game plan has to be just sit back and let the Bears shoot themselves in the foot. Next game vs. the Packers I really hope someone makes a piss yellow and green smear out of Amos well, not really but, a clean obliterating hit would be nice.

 

I've criticized the Bears way too many times for running the ball up the middle to freak out over them deciding to do something different, especially after doing it on that very drive. That just seems like being upset over the loss and finding one thing that could have gone better, and heaping the whole thing on it.

 

If people really think the game hinged upon the Bears running the conservative play, then maybe they should have just taken the FG. It would have put the Bears 2 points down.

 

For me, the frustrating aspect is the failure to execute, it's highlighted even more so in Packer games. The game could have been won, Packers gave them several chances to do so but, the Bears are terrible and unable to make plays against any decent teams. How many interceptions did they drop? Two for sure, the third probably would have taken a great play.

[raw]

Getting back to the game for a moment I have to think there was plenty of anger for Nagy' ineptitude as a play caller. You've got a fourth and one on a drive with a chance to the lead, you've run it down their throats to convert previous fourth downs. There's an excellent chance you'll be able to run it down their throats again regardless of what the Packers do and you put in the hands of your QB who, to put it mildly, has trouble executing against average defenses. With the predictable result that he fails to execute, part of the Packer game plan has to be just sit back and let the Bears shoot themselves in the foot. Next game vs. the Packers I really hope someone makes a piss yellow and green smear out of Amos well, not really but, a clean obliterating hit would be nice.

 

They converted a previous 4th down with the same play (to Mooney). And Jimmy Graham screwed up the play as he was supposed to pick Robinson's man making that another easy completion. Robinson was the only option on the play. It was an OK play call, just didn't execute per usual.

 

As for the rest of the gameplan, Trubisky only attempted 7 passes over 6 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. I've seen screenshots and there were very few plays other than those 7 where there were even routes run beyond 6 yards. I understand being conservative, but you cant let the defense sit at 6 yards all game and expect to convert when the field gets shorter. That being said, based on Trubisky's throws over 6 yards (2-7, INT), I can see why Nagy was afraid to let him do much more than that.

[Tim]

Running it down their throats I think is putting it fairly optimistically. Yes they'd converted, but they didn't look particularly strong at it. So. I can get behind a pass. I can even get behind shotgun. But the sprint out, basically one route read felt terribly scripted and forced. Even if there was a missed pick, I don't love it. Throw in an RPO of you want to keep GB on their toes from crowding the line on a dive or sneak.

If Graham picks his guy and then opens himself up as he's supposed to, he would be another option to convert and it's a super easy play.

 

Plus, they had already converted one of the fourth downs on a pass earlier. Nobody seems to be complaining about that one.

[raw]

FYI, it sounds like Roquan Smith dislocated his elbow. Also, doesn't look good for Mooney.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

As long as it's not one of those weird Nagy razzle-dazzles where you try to run a naked end around to the short side but don't send any blockers with it, I really don't care about individual playcalls. I'm not convinced there's always one magic solution to short yardage situations.

 

I went golfing in SoCal this morning for the first time in a month since my kid's christmas break is finally over. I found a sweet Bears ball marker on the ground on the 4th, nobody around to claim it, so I did. I went on to shoot my worst round ever. It's an omen.

[gflore34]

FYI, it sounds like Roquan Smith dislocated his elbow. Also, doesn't look good for Mooney.

 

Don't think it matters much, who knows, maybe, one of the guys taking their places will step up with the game of his life against the Saints.

[minnesotacubsfan]

FYI, it sounds like Roquan Smith dislocated his elbow. Also, doesn't look good for Mooney.

Doesn't look good for Mooney as in next week or worse?

[minnesotacubsfan]

As long as it's not one of those weird Nagy razzle-dazzles where you try to run a naked end around to the short side but don't send any blockers with it, I really don't care about individual playcalls. I'm not convinced there's always one magic solution to short yardage situations.

 

I went golfing in SoCal this morning for the first time in a month since my kid's christmas break is finally over. I found a sweet Bears ball marker on the ground on the 4th, nobody around to claim it, so I did. I went on to shoot my worst round ever. It's an omen.

It's Karma, not an omen

[minnesotacubsfan]

Running it down their throats I think is putting it fairly optimistically. Yes they'd converted, but they didn't look particularly strong at it. So. I can get behind a pass. I can even get behind shotgun. But the sprint out, basically one route read felt terribly scripted and forced. Even if there was a missed pick, I don't love it. Throw in an RPO of you want to keep GB on their toes from crowding the line on a dive or sneak.

If Graham picks his guy and then opens himself up as he's supposed to, he would be another option to convert and it's a super easy play.

 

Plus, they had already converted one of the fourth downs on a pass earlier. Nobody seems to be complaining about that one.

I understand Graham fouling his responsibility was a disaster for that play on many levels, but thats the issue: since he f'ed up, the play had ZERO second choices.

 

On a 4th down play, it's not the type of play design I would look to utilize. 1st down, maybe.

[Tim]

Running it down their throats I think is putting it fairly optimistically. Yes they'd converted, but they didn't look particularly strong at it. So. I can get behind a pass. I can even get behind shotgun. But the sprint out, basically one route read felt terribly scripted and forced. Even if there was a missed pick, I don't love it. Throw in an RPO of you want to keep GB on their toes from crowding the line on a dive or sneak.

If Graham picks his guy and then opens himself up as he's supposed to, he would be another option to convert and it's a super easy play.

 

Plus, they had already converted one of the fourth downs on a pass earlier. Nobody seems to be complaining about that one.

I understand Graham fouling his responsibility was a disaster for that play on many levels, but thats the issue: since he f'ed up, the play had ZERO second choices.

 

On a 4th down play, it's not the type of play design I would look to utilize. 1st down, maybe.

What did you want, a QB sneak?

 

Tell me, what is the second option on that play?

[minnesotacubsfan]

If Graham picks his guy and then opens himself up as he's supposed to, he would be another option to convert and it's a super easy play.

 

Plus, they had already converted one of the fourth downs on a pass earlier. Nobody seems to be complaining about that one.

I understand Graham fouling his responsibility was a disaster for that play on many levels, but thats the issue: since he f'ed up, the play had ZERO second choices.

 

On a 4th down play, it's not the type of play design I would look to utilize. 1st down, maybe.

What did you want, a QB sneak?

 

Tell me, what is the second option on that play?

Graham was probably the first, Robinson the second, or vice versa. I could see where Robinson was supposed to clear his guy out leaving Graham open on a short throw going inside. Graham's guy was playing off enough for that to work.

 

On a critical 4th down, I'd prefer a pass play with two independent options: one short, one deep. Not two options that depend on each other. Or better yet, RPO.

 

It's all Monday morning coaching, sure. But I hated it when they lined up for it.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

[WrigleyField 22]

Ah yea, Champ came over with Fox from Denver, so that makes sense, as there is familiarity.

[gflore34]

I understand Graham fouling his responsibility was a disaster for that play on many levels, but thats the issue: since he f'ed up, the play had ZERO second choices.

 

On a 4th down play, it's not the type of play design I would look to utilize. 1st down, maybe.

What did you want, a QB sneak?

 

Tell me, what is the second option on that play?

Graham was probably the first, Robinson the second, or vice versa. I could see where Robinson was supposed to clear his guy out leaving Graham open on a short throw going inside. Graham's guy was playing off enough for that to work.

 

On a critical 4th down, I'd prefer a pass play with two independent options: one short, one deep. Not two options that depend on each other. Or better yet, RPO.

 

It's all Monday morning coaching, sure. But I hated it when they lined up for it.

 

In probability its all academic, I'm certain, regardless of the play call, they'd fucked it up anyway, it's Mitch after all.