Offseason Top Prospect Lists

[Bear Cub]

Luis Vazquez was very impressive in Vegas this weekend.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

MLB Pipeline has the Cubs with the 23rd best farm system in baseball.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/2020-farm-system-rankings?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

 

23) Chicago Cubs

2019 preseason rank: unranked

2019 midseason rank: unranked

Top 100 Prospects: Nico Hoerner, SS/2B/OF (No. 51), Brailyn Marquez, LHP (No. 68), Brennen Davis, OF (No. 78), Miguel Amaya, C (No. 95)

Top 2020 rookie: Nico Hoerner, SS/2B/OF

The Cubs continue to have more success developing hitters than pitchers, with Marquez a notable exception.

[Hrubes20]

MLB Pipeline has the Cubs with the 23rd best farm system in baseball.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/2020-farm-system-rankings?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

 

23) Chicago Cubs

2019 preseason rank: unranked

2019 midseason rank: unranked

Top 100 Prospects: Nico Hoerner, SS/2B/OF (No. 51), Brailyn Marquez, LHP (No. 68), Brennen Davis, OF (No. 78), Miguel Amaya, C (No. 95)

Top 2020 rookie: Nico Hoerner, SS/2B/OF

The Cubs continue to have more success developing hitters than pitchers, with Marquez a notable exception.

 

23rd feels about right to me.

[CubsWin]

Finally, an MLB.com list that makes sense to me. And I like the new format, too.

 

Of course, by "makes sense to me" I mostly mean that I agree with. I'm no expert, but we always think a list makes sense when it basically lines up with our thinking, heh.

 

But MLB's lists have had some odd inclusions and orders the last several years. Did someone new do it this year?

[Regular Show]

Finally, an MLB.com list that makes sense to me. And I like the new format, too.

 

Of course, by "makes sense to me" I mostly mean that I agree with. I'm no expert, but we always think a list makes sense when it basically lines up with our thinking, heh.

 

But MLB's lists have had some odd inclusions and orders the last several years. Did someone new do it this year?

 

By MLB.com, I think you're referring to MLB Pipeline, which is run by Jim Callis, Jonathan Mayo and Mike Rosenbaum. Those 3 are the ones in charge and come up with the lists.

 

The sources they talk to and scouts and stuff behind-the-scenes might change. Jordan Shusterman (Cespedes Family BBQ) hosts the MLB Pipeline podcast, but doesn't take part in compiling the lists. He's pretty knowledgable and very funny (great host).

 

Yeah, I like the new format as well.

[Regular Show]

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LAD only team to make every column. The Braves almost did it as well.

[ConstableRabbit]

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LAD only team to make every column. The Braves almost did it as well.

You know what else the Dodgers and Braves have in common in that timeframe? Lol

[CaliforniaRaisin]

[tweet]

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LAD only team to make every column. The Braves almost did it as well.

You know what else the Dodgers and Braves have in common in that timeframe? Lol

 

Man, I bet it must really suck to have never won a World Series this century.

[Regular Show]

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LAD only team to make every column. The Braves almost did it as well.

You know what else the Dodgers and Braves have in common in that timeframe? Lol

 

I'm just objectively mentioning facts from the MLB Pipeline tweet for people unaware of farm system rankings of the past few years. Some of you guys here are so damn quick to counter any praise of rival teams, especially the Dodgers.

 

 

Again, it's kinda sad and pathetic. You won't be banished from Cubs' fandom for saying something nice (or true) about a rival team.

[ConstableRabbit]

[tweet]

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LAD only team to make every column. The Braves almost did it as well.

You know what else the Dodgers and Braves have in common in that timeframe? Lol

 

I'm just objectively mentioning facts from the MLB Pipeline tweet for people unaware of farm system rankings of the past few years. Some of you guys here are so damn quick to counter any praise of rival teams, especially the Dodgers.

 

 

Again, it's kinda sad and pathetic. You won't be banished from Cubs' fandom for saying something nice (or true) about a rival team.

It was a joke. Lighten up, francis.

[Regular Show]

You know what else the Dodgers and Braves have in common in that timeframe? Lol

 

I'm just objectively mentioning facts from the MLB Pipeline tweet for people unaware of farm system rankings of the past few years. Some of you guys here are so damn quick to counter any praise of rival teams, especially the Dodgers.

 

 

Again, it's kinda sad and pathetic. You won't be banished from Cubs' fandom for saying something nice (or true) about a rival team.

It was a joke. Lighten up, francis.

 

[CubsWin]

Finally, an MLB.com list that makes sense to me. And I like the new format, too.

 

Of course, by "makes sense to me" I mostly mean that I agree with. I'm no expert, but we always think a list makes sense when it basically lines up with our thinking, heh.

 

But MLB's lists have had some odd inclusions and orders the last several years. Did someone new do it this year?

 

By MLB.com, I think you're referring to MLB Pipeline, which is run by Jim Callis, Jonathan Mayo and Mike Rosenbaum. Those 3 are the ones in charge and come up with the lists.

Is there another top prospect list put out by MLB.com?

[Regular Show]

Finally, an MLB.com list that makes sense to me. And I like the new format, too.

 

Of course, by "makes sense to me" I mostly mean that I agree with. I'm no expert, but we always think a list makes sense when it basically lines up with our thinking, heh.

 

But MLB's lists have had some odd inclusions and orders the last several years. Did someone new do it this year?

 

By MLB.com, I think you're referring to MLB Pipeline, which is run by Jim Callis, Jonathan Mayo and Mike Rosenbaum. Those 3 are the ones in charge and come up with the lists.

Is there another top prospect list put out by MLB.com?

 

Well, MLB.com is very large and employs many writers, like Jesse Sanchez for example. He primarily covers international baseball and he might create a list for top international players or prospects? Not sure honestly, but he is not a part of MLB Pipeline.

[CubsWin]

 

By MLB.com, I think you're referring to MLB Pipeline, which is run by Jim Callis, Jonathan Mayo and Mike Rosenbaum. Those 3 are the ones in charge and come up with the lists.

Is there another top prospect list put out by MLB.com?

 

Well, MLB.com is very large and employs many writers, like Jesse Sanchez for example. He primarily covers international baseball and he might create a list for top international players or prospects? Not sure honestly, but he is not a part of MLB Pipeline.

So, no then. Thanks. Got it.

[Regular Show]

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Kiley McDaniel's Top 10 Prospects list for the Cubs:

 

1. Nico Hoerner, 2B, 50 FV (No. 48 in top 100)

2. Miguel Amaya, C, 50 FV (No. 65)

3. Brennen Davis, CF, 50 FV (No. 73)

4. Brailyn Marquez, LHP, 45+ FV

5. Cole Roederer, CF, 45 FV

6. Adbert Alzolay, RHP, 45 FV

7. Cory Abbott, RHP, 45 FV

8. Ronnier Quintero, C, 40+ FV

9. Kevin Made, SS, 40+ FV

10. Justin Steele, LHP, 40+ FV

[Regular Show]

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Kiley has the Cubs' farm system ranked 24th.

 

I think the system will move up in the rankings next year even with Nico Hoerner and Adbert Alzolay graduating off the list. This is assuming the draft and IFA signing period continue like normal this year (which would be incredibly stupid if MLB decided to cancel). I'm hopeful those proceed like normal and that should allow the Cubs to add a good influx of talent to the system.

 

----

 

I'm optimistic, but I'm also trying to be objective. Too many posters say stupid stuff here like "We're going to have a top ten farm system 12 months from now" (that didn't happen) or that we have the best/one of the best international scouting departments in the game (we don't). Again, try to educate yourself and/or speak to people inside the game before making dumb statements like that...

 

The good news is people inside the game think our system is trending up now again and could look a whole lot better next year.

[allen6510w]

[attachment=2]page-0.gif[/attachment]

 

Subset of lists used in creating the consensus list (Note: Some contributors used different definitions as to who qualities as a rookie.)

 

https://www.pitcherlist.com/dynasty-chicago-cubs-2020-preseason-top-50-prospects/

 

https://www.prospectslive.com/lists/2020/1/2/cubs-2020-top-30-prospects

 

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2020/02/03/the-2020-bn-top-cubs-prospect-list-30-25-little-clarke-ademan-uelmen-pinango-weber/

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-2020-top-30-prospects-list?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

 

https://www.baseballamerica.com/teams/1004/chicago-cubs/organizational/?year=2020&type=P

 

https://www.prospects1500.com/nl-central/cubs/chicago-cubs-2020-top-50-prospects/

 

https://prospect361.com/nl-team-prospects/chicago-cubs/

 

https://theathletic.com/1651634/2020/03/04/keith-laws-prospect-rankings-chicago-cubs/?source=shared-article

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/28893354/kiley-mcdaniel-national-league-team-team-top-prospect-rankings

[toonsterwu]

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Kiley has the Cubs' farm system ranked 24th.

 

I think the system will move up in the rankings next year even with Nico Hoerner and Adbert Alzolay graduating off the list. This is assuming the draft and IFA signing period continue like normal this year (which would be incredibly stupid if MLB decided to cancel). I'm hopeful those proceed like normal and that should allow the Cubs to add a good influx of talent to the system.

 

----

 

I'm optimistic, but I'm also trying to be objective. Too many posters say stupid stuff here like "We're going to have a top ten farm system 12 months from now" (that didn't happen) or that we have the best/one of the best international scouting departments in the game (we don't). Again, try to educate yourself and/or speak to people inside the game before making dumb statements like that...

 

The good news is people inside the game think our system is trending up now again and could look a whole lot better next year.

 

24th seems reasonable. I haven't really paid much attention to other farms in awhile, particularly with what's going on in the world, but I figured they would be in the lower third, and it'd be an eye of the beholder type thing (that is, anywhere from 19-27 seemed reasonable depending on who you liked).

 

The idea that the system is trending up, IMO, without having read that ESPN article, seems like it's based somewhat on internal adjustments and developments, but also heavily on a very limited number of guys. I think there's enough depth and potential that it seems unlikely we'd fall back to that bottom of the majors level (that is, 28-30). I mean, if we're blunt about it, Davis/Marquez were both ahead of the expected curve a bit, so even if they stagnate, our system shouldn't tumble as a result.

 

I think about the only chance that I could see this as a top 10-12 system next year is if a lot of dominoes just fall our way - Brennen Davis becomes a top 50, if not higher prospect, Brailyn Marquez shows his late streak last year is legitimate, Amaya shows some offensive development, an arm or two make a move up the ladder (Franklin/Gallardo?) additions made in IFA and the draft to bolster it up. I just think it's too thin right now to really think this system can take a huge leap up in one year..

[Regular Show]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

Kiley has the Cubs' farm system ranked 24th.

 

I think the system will move up in the rankings next year even with Nico Hoerner and Adbert Alzolay graduating off the list. This is assuming the draft and IFA signing period continue like normal this year (which would be incredibly stupid if MLB decided to cancel). I'm hopeful those proceed like normal and that should allow the Cubs to add a good influx of talent to the system.

 

----

 

I'm optimistic, but I'm also trying to be objective. Too many posters say stupid stuff here like "We're going to have a top ten farm system 12 months from now" (that didn't happen) or that we have the best/one of the best international scouting departments in the game (we don't). Again, try to educate yourself and/or speak to people inside the game before making dumb statements like that...

 

The good news is people inside the game think our system is trending up now again and could look a whole lot better next year.

 

The idea that the system is trending up, IMO, without having read that ESPN article, seems like it's based somewhat on internal adjustments and developments, but also heavily on a very limited number of guys. I think there's enough depth and potential that it seems unlikely we'd fall back to that bottom of the majors level (that is, 28-30). I mean, if we're blunt about it, Davis/Marquez were both ahead of the expected curve a bit, so even if they stagnate, our system shouldn't tumble as a result.

 

I think about the only chance that I could see this as a top 10-12 system next year is if a lot of dominoes just fall our way - Brennen Davis becomes a top 50, if not higher prospect, Brailyn Marquez shows his late streak last year is legitimate, Amaya shows some offensive development, an arm or two make a move up the ladder (Franklin/Gallardo?) additions made in IFA and the draft to bolster it up. I just think it's too thin right now to really think this system can take a huge leap up in one year..

 

The only way our farm system becomes a consensus Top 10 system again in the near term is not going to appeal to people here. To get ranked that high would involve trading our best players for top prospects at the trade deadline in this upcoming shortened season (I think the trade deadline will be around September for this year). No matter how great a year Marquez and Davis and Amaya have, I just don't think we can get up there without big trades.

 

Just speculation, but I'm pretty sure our FO has discussed this as well from comments made by Theo about setting up the team better after 2021. They wanted to make some big trades this offseason, but it just didn't happen.

[Post Count Padder]

I'm surprised by a bit of that. Reivaj has some big upside and he's buried on the list. Tyson Miller is a low ceiling/high floor guy but only at 30? Martinez and Verdugo and Keegan and Ademan and Gallardo in the 20s? Hunter Bigge higher than them? Manuel Rodriguez at 34?

[CubsWin]

Jose Albertos lives!

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'm surprised by a bit of that. Reivaj has some big upside and he's buried on the list. Tyson Miller is a low ceiling/high floor guy but only at 30? Martinez and Verdugo and Keegan and Ademan and Gallardo in the 20s? Hunter Bigge higher than them? Manuel Rodriguez at 34?

 

Each list is going to be different based on what the person creating it prefers. Additionally, Longehagen is based in the Phoenix area so he's far more well-versed on Cubs prospects who are in Arizona a lot (guys who are at instructs, played in the AZL recently, new draft picks, etc). It's probably why he's sticking with guys who've struggled recently but had AZL success in the past, like Ademan, Albertos and Reivaj Garcia.

 

Also, I'm not sure Martinez, Verdugo, K. Thompson and Ademan in the 20s is that big a surprise.

 

The last part with the blurb about the state of the organization was very nice to see. It's conformation from a national guy that the farm system is on the rise and the changes we've heard about so much are putting them on the right track:

 

System Overview

 

The Cubs’ recent track record of drafting and developing pitching is bad and the org has made a concerted effort to build new facilities and bring in new personnel to address that fact. Brailyn Marquez’s delivery was sequenced better last year, the earliest and loudest sign that things might be improving on the dev side. Hoerner and Davis made significant and impactful swing changes after signing, evidence the hitting side of the dev group is also driving positive change.

 

After a run of monochromatic drafts full of college pitching, Chicago has used mid-round picks on projectable high schoolers, and both Roederer (who I was probably low on before his draft) and Davis’ stocks are up since they were acquired.

 

We haven’t seen what the pro department’s tendencies are because the club has been in buy mode for a while now, but we might soon learn a lot if the team seeks to rebuild.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Bigge looks like a 2019 12th round steal. He was sitting in the upper-80s and low-90s at Harvard, then spiked into the 92-95 range out of the bullpen after the draft. By the fall, he was touching at least 97 and I have one source who had him up to 99. He now looks like a quick-moving bullpen weapon, but obviously it’d be better to see him do it for a whole season.

 

That's fun

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Since FG placed FV ratings on their draft board and top IFA prospects, we can get an idea where Eric Longehangen would rate the Cubs new draft picks and Christian Hernández.

 

1. Ed Howard: 45+ FV

2020 July 2: Christian Hernández: 45

2. Burl Carraway: 40+

3. Jordan Nwogu: 35+

4. Luke Little: 35+

5. Koen Moreno: 35+

 

The Cubs only have one 45+ FV (Adbert Alzolay at 5) so Howard would come in at 5th or 6th in an updated ranking. The Cubs have one 45 FV prospect (Cole Roederer at 6, though we'd knock Roederer to 7 with the inclusion of Howard) so Hernández would be 7th or 8th. The Cubs have five 40+ FV (Chase Strumpf at 7, Ryan Jensen 8, Kohl Franklin 9, Cory Abbot 10 and Christopher Morel at 11; we'd have to knock each of them down two spots for the additions of Howard and Hernández), so Carraway would rank somewhere between 9-14. The Cubs have twelve 35+ prospects from 30-41 so Nwogu, Little and Moreno would slot in somewhere in that group.

 

For ease, I slotted each of the new prospects at the top of their FV groups:

 

1. Nico Hoerner - 50 FV

2. Brennen Davis - 50

3. Miguel Amaya - 50

4. Brailyn Márquez - 50

5. Ed Howard - 45+

6. Adbert Alzolay - 45+

7. Christian Hernández - 45

8. Cole Roederer - 45

9. Burl Carraway - 40+

10. Chase Strumpf - 40+

11. Ryan Jensen - 40+

12. Kohl Franklin - 40+

13. Cory Abbott - 40+

14. Christopher Morel - 40+

[CaliforniaRaisin]

We can do the same thing with Kiley McDaniel's ESPN Cubs Top Prospect List. Kiley only ranked Ed Howard (45 FV), Burl Carraway (40+) and Jordan Nwogu (40) in his top 150 draft prospects and he hasn't rated the top prospects in the 7/2 2020 IFA market yet.

 

1. Nico Hoerner, 50 FV

2. Miguel Amaya, 50 FV

3. Brennen Davis, 50 FV

4. Brailyn Márquez, 45+ FV

5. Ed Howard, 45 FV

6. Cole Roederer, 45 FV

7. Adbert Alzolay, 45 FV

8. Cory Abbott, 45 FV

9. Burl Carraway, 40+ FV

10. Ronnier Quintero, 40+ FV

11. Kevin Made, 40+ FV

12. Justin Steele, 40+ FV

 

Kiley only ranked his top 10 Cubs prospects last offseason so I don't know if he thinks Steele is the last 40+ prospect or if any others would also rank ahead of 40 FV Nwogu (Kohl Franklin, Ryan Jensen, Richard Gallardo, Michael McAvene, Riley Thompson, DJ Herz, Chase Strumpf, Zack Short, Pedro Martinez, Christopher Morel, Aramis Ademan and Ethan Hearn were all in Kiley's "Others of Note" section).