Bears/NFL training camp opens

[Sammy Sofa]

It was a smokescreen. Pace obviously fell in love with Trubisky. The Bears are well under the cap, the Glennon money doesn't mean anything. And he can be cut after a year, with very minimal ramifications.

 

You couldn't bring Jay back again, even if personally, I'd have been OK with it. You bring Hoyer back and everyone knows you're after a QB at 3.

 

Glennon got teams off a QB at 3. Pace did anything and everything to get Trubisky.

there is not one single

Good reason why you couldn't bring jay back and draft trubisky

 

Or, heck, sign Kaep. They probably could have had him for less, he's better than Glennon, and he would have been even easier for them to dump if Trubisky looks to be the real deal.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Granted, I've payed the absolute minimum attention to the Bears, but it really sounds like some of you are still trying to explain yourself in circles about the Bears on Draft Day. Like, if Trubisky ends up working out for them, hey, fantastic, but didn't they still needlessly trade to get him sooner? Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seemed that general consensus outside of Bears fans was "what the hell are the Bears doing" because apparently nobody as looking to pick him up ahead of the Bears. What they traded away wasn't some kind of back breaker, but can anyone really look at it as some kind of crafty masterstroke by the GM? Seems like he got antsy and psyched himself out of waiting to get him.

 

 

needlessly? Right now the consensus is that he's legit and he's ours. i wouldn't call any of that "needless"

[minnesotacubsfan]

It was a smokescreen. Pace obviously fell in love with Trubisky. The Bears are well under the cap, the Glennon money doesn't mean anything. And he can be cut after a year, with very minimal ramifications.

 

You couldn't bring Jay back again, even if personally, I'd have been OK with it. You bring Hoyer back and everyone knows you're after a QB at 3.

 

Glennon got teams off a QB at 3. Pace did anything and everything to get Trubisky.

there is not one single

Good reason why you couldn't bring jay back and draft trubisky

 

not true. I think for both sides it was time to move on

[Sammy Sofa]

Granted, I've payed the absolute minimum attention to the Bears, but it really sounds like some of you are still trying to explain yourself in circles about the Bears on Draft Day. Like, if Trubisky ends up working out for them, hey, fantastic, but didn't they still needlessly trade to get him sooner? Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seemed that general consensus outside of Bears fans was "what the hell are the Bears doing" because apparently nobody as looking to pick him up ahead of the Bears. What they traded away wasn't some kind of back breaker, but can anyone really look at it as some kind of crafty masterstroke by the GM? Seems like he got antsy and psyched himself out of waiting to get him.

 

 

needlessly? Right now the consensus is that he's legit and he's ours. i wouldn't call any of that "needless"

 

But, again, it seems the talk then and now is that nobody would have picked Trubisky before the Bears. Like I said, I could easily be wrong about that, but if that's the case, then, hey, the GM fucked up and needlessly traded to get him when he didn't have to, but hopefully it still works out. This narrative of it being some kind of skillful move part of the "smokescreen" of signing Glennon seems more like wishful thinking. Like, he was convinced someone was going to try and get Trubisky before the Bears, and he was worried they weren't going to be able make the trade to beat this non-existent competition to draft Trubisky, so he signed Glennon. That seems far more likely than it was all the wily wheelings and dealings of some kind of stealth master GM.

[Guest]

Granted, I've payed the absolute minimum attention to the Bears, but it really sounds like some of you are still trying to explain yourself in circles about the Bears on Draft Day. Like, if Trubisky ends up working out for them, hey, fantastic, but didn't they still needlessly trade to get him sooner? Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seemed that general consensus outside of Bears fans was "what the hell are the Bears doing" because apparently nobody as looking to pick him up ahead of the Bears. What they traded away wasn't some kind of back breaker, but can anyone really look at it as some kind of crafty masterstroke by the GM? Seems like he got antsy and psyched himself out of waiting to get him.

 

Yeah, he would have had no way of knowing if someone was trying to trade up into the top 3 to take Trubisky.

 

You're much better than this meatball crap.

[Guest]

I mean, come on. I know you're at least 50% trolling but you can't honestly say that Cleveland wasn't looking to trade up.

 

They took Dashone Kizer, who is basically Trubisky without the accuracy. They didn't trade up for the other guys because they're both pocket spazzes who have nice arms and tools, but have unfixable mechanical and awareness issues.

 

It's likely Pace thought Trubisky is the deal and made absolutely sure he wasnt going to lose him. He rightly identified the others as college qbs and zpent a little extra to ensure he gets the franchise. Im glad he did or else he'd have an exciting pick like Solomon Thomas.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Stannis

[davell]

It was a smokescreen. Pace obviously fell in love with Trubisky. The Bears are well under the cap, the Glennon money doesn't mean anything. And he can be cut after a year, with very minimal ramifications.

 

You couldn't bring Jay back again, even if personally, I'd have been OK with it. You bring Hoyer back and everyone knows you're after a QB at 3.

 

Glennon got teams off a QB at 3. Pace did anything and everything to get Trubisky.

there is not one single

Good reason why you couldn't bring jay back and draft trubisky

 

I agree with you. There's not a good reason. But, the meatbally "it was time for a change" narrative may even come from the locker room, I guess? Again, its not a good reason. He's much better than Glennon.

 

But, MAYBE....That's THE reason? If Jay played well, it'd make it harder to play Trubisky? Stretch? Yeah. I got nothing.

[Guest]

Maybe he didnt feel the exhaustion of having to explain to cretins why he brought Jay back was worth it?

[Sammy Sofa]

You're much better than this meatball crap.

 

I mean, come on. I know you're at least 50% trolling

 

Uh, alright then. I don't know how my post was meatball-y or trolling.

 

Again, the general consensus outside of Bears fans seems to be the Bears didn't need to trade up. That doesn't somehow negate things if Trubisky pans out; good for them if he does. But it just seems silly that people are trying to force this narrative that Pace was working some kind of multi-dimensional chess strategy while everyone else was playing checkers; the guy was likely only competing against himself. It can just turn out to be a good pick that he made some goofy, unnecessary moves to pull off; it's not like any success Trubsiky has is tainted by that.

[We Got The Whole 9]

You're much better than this meatball crap.

 

I mean, come on. I know you're at least 50% trolling

 

Uh, alright then. I don't know how my post was meatball-y or trolling.

 

Again, the general consensus outside of Bears fans seems to be the Bears didn't need to trade up. That doesn't somehow negate things if Trubisky pans out; good for them if he does. But it just seems silly that people are trying to force this narrative that Pace was working some kind of multi-dimensional chess strategy while everyone else was playing checkers; the guy was likely only competing against himself. It can just turn out to be a good pick that he made some goofy, unnecessary moves to pull off; it's not like any success Trubsiky has is tainted by that.

We probably weren't the only team vying for the 2 and the actual price we paid to get the universally accepted best QB in the draft was a lot lower than teams in recent past had to spend.

 

Right now it looks like a game changer, if you will.

Edited August 28, 2017 by We Got The Whole 9

[David]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqK_Wm-Bi9Y

[Thrilho]

You're much better than this meatball crap.

 

I mean, come on. I know you're at least 50% trolling

 

Uh, alright then. I don't know how my post was meatball-y or trolling.

 

Again, the general consensus outside of Bears fans seems to be the Bears didn't need to trade up. That doesn't somehow negate things if Trubisky pans out; good for them if he does. But it just seems silly that people are trying to force this narrative that Pace was working some kind of multi-dimensional chess strategy while everyone else was playing checkers; the guy was likely only competing against himself. It can just turn out to be a good pick that he made some goofy, unnecessary moves to pull off; it's not like any success Trubsiky has is tainted by that.

The general consensus among sports fans and espn talking heads doesn't matter. The GM of Browns or the Jags or whoever else may have been trying to trade up isn't going to day "hey look I was trying to trade up but all I ended up with was this Kizer guy."

 

I thought the general consensus among intelligent people is that the general consensus among ESPN NFL talking heads and fans is BS. "Stephen A Smith and Colin Cowherd told me that Trubisky was going to be there and they must know what they're talking about."

 

Here's what I personally believe. 90ish% of people thought it was a dumb decision to trade up. Sweet. Bears fans booed the pick. Chicago radio hosts said there's no way the Bears would pick Trubisky and dudes like Mike Mulligan thought Kizer would flat be better than Mitch as of the week of the draft. All these people will be wrong when Mitch is awesome and look super dumb/uninformed, if history cares to remember what people believed at the time.

 

Also I think they're wrong that the Bears could've had him at 3. That will likely never be proven. But as has been noted, the Browns took a QB with their next pick and had more than enough fire power to jump to the #2 if the Bears hadn't acted.

 

As for the Cutler stuff, the situation right now is that Trubisky can likely start by game 3 or 4 then you've got a somewhat sad Glennon sitting there as a decent backup. Cutler would've have been a way different story than Glennon. He had been with the team for years, had developed relationships in the locker room, is not the type to want to sit behind a rookie, and is a vocal dude. Also his presence may not be the best smoke screen, if that part matters. So I can see not wanting him around if the Bears thought MT was a guy who could start right away.

[WrigleyField 22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqK_Wm-Bi9Y

I'm already spoiled by his accuracy because my first thought was that he had at least 3 overthrows!

 

Stumble aside even, does he look a little uncomfortable under center still. Like he has a little hitch receiving the snap? If I recall from the first two games, they gave him a really high proportion of shotgun reads. Today was probably the most under center snaps he got right?

[Sammy Sofa]

Also I think they're wrong that the Bears could've had him at 3. That will likely never be proven. But as has been noted, the Browns took a QB with their next pick and had more than enough fire power to jump to the #2 if the Bears hadn't acted.

 

Possibly. Has there been any talk the Browns attempted to do so? Also: it's the Browns.

 

And wasn't there a ton of talk that you had a bunch of people throughout the league wondering what the hell the Bears were doing? Again, Trubisky could very well end up being a great pick; it's just kinda goofy it's being spun as this move that required all kinds of brilliant strategy and trading up. You're right; nobody is going to know for sure, but the idea that Pace was just competing with himself seems to at least have as much weight as this idea he skillfully swooped in and was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes playing the long game and snatched away a pick the Bears weren't going to have if they hadn't traded up. Like, he doesn't have to be Super GM for this pick to work out.

[WrigleyField 22]

Also I think they're wrong that the Bears could've had him at 3. That will likely never be proven. But as has been noted, the Browns took a QB with their next pick and had more than enough fire power to jump to the #2 if the Bears hadn't acted.

 

Possibly. Has there been any talk the Browns attempted to do so? Also: it's the Browns.

 

And wasn't there a ton of talk that you had a bunch of people throughout the league wondering what the hell the Bears were doing? Again, Trubisky could very well end up being a great pick; it's just kinda goofy it's being spun as this move that required all kinds of brilliant strategy and trading up. You're right; nobody is going to know for sure, but the idea that Pace was just competing with himself seems to at least have as much weight as this idea he skillfully swooped in and was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes playing the long game and snatched away a pick the Bears weren't going to have if they hadn't traded up. Like he doesn't have to be Super GM for this pick to work out.

Agreed with the bolded.

 

The other solid rumor was that the Titans were receiving a lot of calls at 5, and those call stopped as soon as Trubisky was picked. Plus Pace obviously knew anyone calling for three. Very possibly no one thought they had to jump the Bears, but I wouldn't necessarily call it needless given all circumstances.

[Sammy Sofa]

Fair enough.

[Guest]

You're much better than this meatball crap.

 

I mean, come on. I know you're at least 50% trolling

 

Uh, alright then. I don't know how my post was meatball-y or trolling.

 

Again, the general consensus outside of Bears fans seems to be the Bears didn't need to trade up.

 

Yeah, and most people are meatballs. That's what makes it a meatball idea.

 

Most people outside of Bears mgmt thought they'd traded up to get Solomon Thomas, lol.

 

I'm not calling it a chess move, but Pace had a contingency. He at least made it look like he was set at QB, therefore, if horsefeathers went down, he'd be the first to know (ie- another team trying to move up to take a QB. I personally think that if Cleveland knew the Bears were going to take Trubisky, they would have taken him #1. They made the consensus pick at 1 and thought they could get the 3 pick from the Bears and get Trubisky.

 

There's no reason to doubt Pace when he said he had another team on the phone at the time he traded up.

 

I mean, imagine you think Trubisky is Aaron Rodgers, he's going to secure your job and make you a hero for generations. Imagine how easy you will have it over the next 10 years. You get a call from another team who has no idea you're interested, they have the one pick and there's another team ahead of you who could trade out and let someone else get your guy. You can question his perception of talent, but you can't really question his actions based on that perception of talent. If Trubisky is worth it, he's worth it, and if he achieves Pace's vision for him, then you absolutely cannot take one single bit of his plan away from him by saying something meatbally like "even if he's good, it doesn't mean Pace should have done it." That's so horsefeathering stupid.

 

I mean, really, it's the exact opposite of that. Even if he doesn't work out, if Pace thought he was Aaron Rodgers and he didn't do what had to be done to get him, he's terrible.

[WrigleyField 22]

Most people outside of Bears mgmt thought they'd traded up to get Solomon Thomas, lol.

I think that was just John Lynch who thought that. Seriously, who could have sen that and not thought it was a QB coming off the board.

[Thrilho]

Also I think they're wrong that the Bears could've had him at 3. That will likely never be proven. But as has been noted, the Browns took a QB with their next pick and had more than enough fire power to jump to the #2 if the Bears hadn't acted.

 

Possibly. Has there been any talk the Browns attempted to do so? Also: it's the Browns.

 

And wasn't there a ton of talk that you had a bunch of people throughout the league wondering what the hell the Bears were doing? Again, Trubisky could very well end up being a great pick; it's just kinda goofy it's being spun as this move that required all kinds of brilliant strategy and trading up. You're right; nobody is going to know for sure, but the idea that Pace was just competing with himself seems to at least have as much weight as this idea he skillfully swooped in and was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes playing the long game and snatched away a pick the Bears weren't going to have if they hadn't traded up. Like, he doesn't have to be Super GM for this pick to work out.

 

I didn't read a ton post draft but in the couple days before the draft the Trubisky to Browns rumors were all over the place. I don't know who's actually got sources but here are some links a google search turned up.

 

Browns trying to trade up for QB - UPI - 4/27

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2017/04/27/Browns-trying-to-trade-up-for-QB-Trubisky/4241493330865/

 

Browns sound poised to trade up for QB (and they should) - 4/20

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/browns_are_poised_to_trade_up.html

 

Browns reportedly spoke to 3 teams about trading up

bleacherreport.com/articles/2705719-browns-reportedly-spoke-to-3-teams-about-trading-up-from-12th-pick-in-nfl-draft

 

Trubisky a serious possibility for Browns at 1

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/mitch_trubisky_still_a_serious.html

 

Chiefs-Browns reportedly coveted Mitch Trubisky (post draft)

bleacherreport.com/articles/2707219-chiefs-browns-reportedly-coveted-mitchell-trubisky-ryan-pace-explains-trade

 

Browns reportedly serious about taking Trubisky over Garrett

bleacherreport.com/articles/2707219-chiefs-browns-reportedly-coveted-mitchell-trubisky-ryan-pace-explains-trade

 

I'm not necessarily concerned with portraying Pace as the Theo of the NFL, but when the alternative view holds that he was dumb and it was a bad move my counterpoint is: nu-uh. I wanted Trubisky and I was reading all those articles that the Browns wanted him and had the fire power to get to 2. I figured leading into the draft that there was a good chance they'd have to trade up to get him. So just on my end it made sense from the beginning.

 

Then you've got what WF22 just said, that Pace knew all the offers to move up to 3.

 

So just in my little world, this was a coup and seems like something Pace planned out quite a bit. And in the end I think it'll look something like if Theo bamboozled his way into KB over Appel rather than having it fall in his lap. I'm adding more 4D chess moves to it by assuming Glennon was part of the plan, just because it makes sense that in order to trick people you can't be sitting there with a bare QB cupboard or a washed up Cutty that has missed significant time just about every year. Just wouldn't make sense to take a safety over QB in that situation. Or it could be that Pace didn't need to do it and I still think he's a genius who got KB over a bunch of Appels.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Thrilho

[Sammy Sofa]

IMO, that seems like a reach given the sheer amounts of "WTF are they doing" reactions from within and around the league, but hey, who knows? You make a persuasive case.

[minnesotacubsfan]

IMO, that seems like a reach given the sheer amounts of "WTF are they doing" reactions from within and around the league, but hey, who knows? You make a persuasive case.

 

 

Is that sheer disbelief still out there? Because, I don't see it now.

[Thrilho]

IMO, that seems like a reach given the sheer amounts of "WTF are they doing" reactions from within and around the league, but hey, who knows? You make a persuasive case.

Cool, yeah I could totally be wrong. So won't keep arguing after you've conceded the other side is a possibility but one other thing I wanted to note about the WTF response. All these espn guys (or local guys guys like Biggs who said it was down to safety or Thomas) want us to think they've got the scoop. They spend months before the draft on mocks, arguing that they've got sources, they know who the best guys are etc. Every one of them got pantsed, so in the immediate aftermath their defense mechanisms are going to kick in.

 

I look at something like Polian giving Pace an A++ after the draft or Ron Wolf (who traded for Favre) saying he liked the move or the scouts that were quoted saying MT will be the best QB in the last like 6 years or something. I'm sure there were leagu sources who thought it was dumb but I haven't seen a lot of actual GMs quote as saying that.

[Sammy Sofa]

IMO, that seems like a reach given the sheer amounts of "WTF are they doing" reactions from within and around the league, but hey, who knows? You make a persuasive case.

 

 

Is that sheer disbelief still out there? Because, I don't see it now.

 

No idea.

[Sammy Sofa]

IMO, that seems like a reach given the sheer amounts of "WTF are they doing" reactions from within and around the league, but hey, who knows? You make a persuasive case.

Cool, yeah I could totally be wrong. So won't keep arguing after you've conceded the other side is a possibility but one other thing I wanted to note about the WTF response. All these espn guys (or local guys guys like Biggs who said it was down to safety or Thomas) want us to think they've got the scoop. They spend months before the draft on mocks, arguing that they've got sources, they know who the best guys are etc. Every one of them got pantsed, so in the immediate aftermath their defense mechanisms are going to kick in.

 

I look at something like Polian giving Pace an A++ after the draft or Ron Wolf (who traded for Favre) saying he liked the move or the scouts that were quoted saying MT will be the best QB in the last like 6 years or something. I'm sure there were leagu sources who thought it was dumb but I haven't seen a lot of actual GMs quote as saying that.

 

Plus there's the obvious appeal of wanting to think that this young, first-time GM was just pulling off his first big move and it's indicative of what's to come (and that very well could be the case).

[Thrilho]

IMO, that seems like a reach given the sheer amounts of "WTF are they doing" reactions from within and around the league, but hey, who knows? You make a persuasive case.

Cool, yeah I could totally be wrong. So won't keep arguing after you've conceded the other side is a possibility but one other thing I wanted to note about the WTF response. All these espn guys (or local guys guys like Biggs who said it was down to safety or Thomas) want us to think they've got the scoop. They spend months before the draft on mocks, arguing that they've got sources, they know who the best guys are etc. Every one of them got pantsed, so in the immediate aftermath their defense mechanisms are going to kick in.

 

I look at something like Polian giving Pace an A++ after the draft or Ron Wolf (who traded for Favre) saying he liked the move or the scouts that were quoted saying MT will be the best QB in the last like 6 years or something. I'm sure there were leagu sources who thought it was dumb but I haven't seen a lot of actual GMs quote as saying that.

 

Plus there's the obvious appeal of wanting to think that this young, first-time GM was just pulling off his first big move and it's indicative of what's to come (and that very well could be the case).

Oh yes, I'm biased all kinds of ways on this