Starting Pitching candidates

[Bull]

Wily Peralta continues to really struggle for the Brewers, has been moved to the pen for a few weeks now, I still really like him as a buy low guy if he gets DFA'd or they look to trade him for pennies on the dollar. I think there could be an elite relief pitcher in there if not a middle rotation starter still. I also think Bosio worked with him some when he was with the Brewers so a change of scenery/getting back with Bosio could help.

I doubt the Brewers will be trading with us.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Wily Peralta continues to really struggle for the Brewers, has been moved to the pen for a few weeks now, I still really like him as a buy low guy if he gets DFA'd or they look to trade him for pennies on the dollar. I think there could be an elite relief pitcher in there if not a middle rotation starter still. I also think Bosio worked with him some when he was with the Brewers so a change of scenery/getting back with Bosio could help.

I doubt the Brewers will be trading with us.

 

I think they'd have little problem trading us Peralta, though. That dude sucks.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Also I have changed my mind. I don't want to trade Eloy.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I'd probably trade Jimenez for most of the very short list of SPs I'd want to trade for at all. Note I much more hope than believe any of these guys are available. Stroman, Berrios, Daniel Norris, Sonny Gray, probably still Eduardo Rodriguez....That's about the whole list, I think.

 

The thought of trading Eloy for Sonny Gray makes me ill.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I'd probably trade Jimenez for most of the very short list of SPs I'd want to trade for at all. Note I much more hope than believe any of these guys are available. Stroman, Berrios, Daniel Norris, Sonny Gray, probably still Eduardo Rodriguez....That's about the whole list, I think.

 

The thought of trading Eloy for Sonny Gray makes me ill.

 

The sickness likely would not be terminal. Gray's really good, but I can get why given the recent arm stuff. IIRC last I checked, I wrote a post and it fell through, he was throwing harder, getting more whiffs, more groundballs, and more popups.

 

Ha. Yeah, it's almost entirely based on the recent health stuff. I was a big fan of his prior to that. I absolutely love Eloy, but I'm not against trading him for the right guy, as much as I'd hate to see him go. I just think, given the health concerns, the Cubs can and should aim a little higher. But there's a lot of folks on this board pining for Gray, so maybe I'm more concerned than I should be about the recent injuries.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The thought of trading Eloy

you shut the horsefeathers up right now

[Bobson Dugnutt]

The thought of trading Eloy

you shut the horsefeathers up right now

 

I feel really ashamed I even said it. I take it all back. Eloy is going to be all the best parts of Stanton, Cabrera, Bryant and what Soler was supposed to be.

 

I'm sorry, Eloy!

[imb]

I'd probably trade Jimenez for most of the very short list of SPs I'd want to trade for at all. Note I much more hope than believe any of these guys are available. Stroman, Berrios, Daniel Norris, Sonny Gray, probably still Eduardo Rodriguez....That's about the whole list, I think.

 

The thought of trading Eloy for Sonny Gray makes me ill.

 

The sickness likely would not be terminal. Gray's really good, but I can get why given the recent arm stuff. IIRC last I checked, I wrote a post and it fell through, he was throwing harder, getting more whiffs, more groundballs, and more popups.

 

daniel norris and sonny gray????? jesus christ ban yourself

[Gilby]

I've got my eye on Verlander now. The numbers aren't very good this season, but his velo is up from his great 2016 (or are those readings still screwy?), so you'd hope maybe a trip to the NL and back to a contender would help him return to form. The money and prospects involved could vary a lot, but I seriously doubt Eloy would need to be involved. Seems like they'd be more likely to sell now that their ownership situation has changed, no?

[imb]

 

The sickness likely would not be terminal. Gray's really good, but I can get why given the recent arm stuff. IIRC last I checked, I wrote a post and it fell through, he was throwing harder, getting more whiffs, more groundballs, and more popups.

 

daniel norris and sonny gray????? jesus christ ban yourself

 

I got more or less the same reaction with Berrios last year.

 

yeah berrios had one bad half-season run through the majors (and has since had one good 1/3rd run,) while Gray has been dead for years and Norris has 200+ innings of sucking and being injured.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Gray had a crappy 2016 due to injury, his 2015 he was a near 4-win pitcher. This year he's pitching at a similar pace to 2015 peripherally, and he'd get a nice bump from moving from the AL to NL and by getting away from one of the worst framing teams around. He's going to be one of the best options on the trade market.

 

Norris is definitely a buy low guy since his peripherals exceed his performance, and I'm not giving up Eloy for him by any stretch, but he's also basically pitched a a 3 fWAR pace when he's been on the mound the last 2 years. There's reasons not to like either(Gray having arm injuries on either side of his elbow in the last 12 months, Norris doesn't really go deep in games and there's not much incentive for the Tigers to deal him aside from a high price), but I don't really see the need to scoff at them.

[imb]

Gray is now a year and a half away from those seasons, and every day he's still trash raises the alarm even more given that there was always a worry because of his size that he'd ever hold up. You wanna find a way to bring him and or Norris over, sounds good, but acting like Eloy is on the table or anywhere near the table, it hilariously stupid.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Gray's peripherals are basically exactly in line with his 2015 and prior, the biggest difference is that he has one of the worst strand rates in baseball, a problem he didn't have in the past and is almost certainly due to his defense, which is worst in MLB in UZR by a large margin: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Acting like Gray's 2017 has been a disaster or is undesirable is odd.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Gray's peripherals are basically exactly in line with his 2015 and prior, the biggest difference is that he has one of the worst strand rates in baseball, a problem he didn't have in the past and is almost certainly due to his defense, which is worst in MLB in UZR by a large margin: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Acting like Gray's 2017 has been a disaster or is undesirable is odd.

 

Would you be in favor of trading Eloy Jimenez for him?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Gray's peripherals are basically exactly in line with his 2015 and prior, the biggest difference is that he has one of the worst strand rates in baseball, a problem he didn't have in the past and is almost certainly due to his defense, which is worst in MLB in UZR by a large margin: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Acting like Gray's 2017 has been a disaster or is undesirable is odd.

 

Would you be in favor of trading Eloy Jimenez for him?

 

No, because of his arm injuries. Were it not for those, I'd have to think about it because the performance(and team control) is what you'd want with the opportunity to get even better(AL to NL, poor framing and defensive team, etc).

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Gray's peripherals are basically exactly in line with his 2015 and prior, the biggest difference is that he has one of the worst strand rates in baseball, a problem he didn't have in the past and is almost certainly due to his defense, which is worst in MLB in UZR by a large margin: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Acting like Gray's 2017 has been a disaster or is undesirable is odd.

 

Would you be in favor of trading Eloy Jimenez for him?

 

No, because of his arm injuries. Were it not for those, I'd have to think about it because the performance(and team control) is what you'd want with the opportunity to get even better(AL to NL, poor framing and defensive team, etc).

 

Fair enough. I'd still have to think long and hard even if there were no health issues in his past. That may just be a general aversion to trading hitting for pitching, though, even though I know we're getting to the point that it probably has to be done one way or another.

[imb]

Gray's peripherals are basically exactly in line with his 2015 and prior, the biggest difference is that he has one of the worst strand rates in baseball, a problem he didn't have in the past and is almost certainly due to his defense, which is worst in MLB in UZR by a large margin: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Acting like Gray's 2017 has been a disaster or is undesirable is odd.

 

Like I said, hey theo, go buy low on him. this is in the context of the idea that you would offer eloy for a guy who is small, has been injured, bad, and is a year and a half away from his last full season.

[imb]

That's great. I dont have super high hopes for Eloy, yet he's still a top 10ish minor league player and the Cubs are not trading that capital for a Bad SP or an injured one that has also been bad. Or at least they shouldn't.

[CubinNY]

That's great. I dont have super high hopes for Eloy, yet he's still a top 10ish minor league player and the Cubs are not trading that capital for a Bad SP or an injured one that has also been bad. Or at least they shouldn't.

 

I don't think anyone here would suggest such a thing.

Except you just did.

[philosophizer75]

For some reason, you're clinging to the notion that Sonny Gray is hot trash. Which he isn't. At all.

[imb]

I'm just not keen on taking a guy everyone said "well he's small and probably won't hold up" and then trading a top 10 prospect for him after 18 consecutive bad/injured months

[UK]

I agree with IMB, Gray and his health history, impending FA, good but not great peripherals doesn't merit giving a package based around Eloy.

 

The one I go after is Archer, hopefully Tampa (for the Cubs' sake) falls off.

 

I'm for gutting the system for him but everyone else (Pitt and CWS not included) doesn't merit the same move.

[davell]

The Mets are selling. I saw Ryan Davis bring up deGrom and wondered what it'd take to get him.....He didn't think he'd actually be available, but threw out Eloy, Cease, Candelario, and one other guy(unnamed) as a fictitional package....Personally, I doubt that'd come close honestly, since there's no real reason for them to move him. But, its an interesting thought anyway.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

The Mets are selling. I saw Ryan Davis bring up deGrom and wondered what it'd take to get him.....He didn't think he'd actually be available, but threw out Eloy, Cease, Candelario, and one other guy(unnamed) as a fictitional package....Personally, I doubt that'd come close honestly, since there's no real reason for them to move him. But, its an interesting thought anyway.

 

This is Jacob deGrom we're talking about, right?

[davell]

The Mets are selling. I saw Ryan Davis bring up deGrom and wondered what it'd take to get him.....He didn't think he'd actually be available, but threw out Eloy, Cease, Candelario, and one other guy(unnamed) as a fictitional package....Personally, I doubt that'd come close honestly, since there's no real reason for them to move him. But, its an interesting thought anyway.

 

This is Jacob deGrom we're talking about, right?

 

Uh yeah. Is he illegal to bring up or something in your opinion?