I like Gold Gloves and I cannot lie: the Jason Heyward thread

[Sammy Sofa]

2008 Fukudome at the plate is kinda...not all that impressive. 2009 Fukudome, however, looks much better. 2010 even moreso (according to FG). Like, 2017 Heyward just being 2008 Fukudome would just mean he's less bad at the plate, not actually good.

 

Again, just seems like really, really low expectations. What the heck sticks out to you guys about Fukudome's 2008 offensive value?

 

What?

 

Nothing. The whole point is that even if he's only 08 Fukudome at the plate, he is a 3-4 win player. That's how high the floor is with his defense and baserunning.

 

What what? People were throwing out Fukudome's 2008 like it was his good year or something. I just wanted that clarified; seems like a random comp.

 

Right, and 3-4 win Jason Heyward is a disappointment because, as you yourself pointed out, that likely means he's not opting out. I don't see what's so crazy about saying I'd be let down by a Heyward who is simply less bad at the plate.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Sammy Sofa

[David]

who said anything about settling for 08 fukudome?

[Sammy Sofa]

Nobody, apparently. My mistake.

 

Ah, it was TT's post about his '08 season that I got hung up on; I glossed over that you rightly pointed out his '09 and '10 seasons were better earlier. My bad.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Sammy Sofa

[David]

2008 Fukudome at the plate is kinda...not all that impressive. 2009 Fukudome, however, looks much better. 2010 even moreso (according to FG). Like, 2017 Heyward just being 2008 Fukudome would just mean he's less bad at the plate, not actually good.

 

Again, just seems like really, really low expectations. What the heck sticks out to you guys about Fukudome's 2008 offensive value?

 

What?

 

Nothing. The whole point is that even if he's only 08 Fukudome at the plate, he is a 3-4 win player. That's how high the floor is with his defense and baserunning.

 

Right, and 3-4 win Jason Heyward is a disappointment because, as you yourself pointed out, that likely means he's not opting out. I don't see what's so crazy about saying I'd be let down by a Heyward who is simply less bad at the plate.

 

But it is still surplus value. That's a win at this point, even without an opt out.

 

But again, nobody said anything about settling for or being happy with 08 Fukudome. I specifically was talking about 09 and 10 Fukudome being comparable at the plate to Heyward's better years. But Heyward going on to be a 3-4 win player at this point is far from the bad end of outcomes.

[Sammy Sofa]

I didn't say it was bad; just that I'd be disappointed with it given the contexts.

[Bull]

I didn't say it was bad; just that I'd be disappointed with it given the contexts.

 

But significantly less disappointed that you were with his 2016. I think that's the overarching point. You said it, low expectations. I think we all have low (lower than career avg) for Heyward this year. Anything better, makes me very happy.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Bull

[Sammy Sofa]

I didn't say it was bad; just that I'd be disappointed with it given the contexts.

 

But significantly less disappointed that you were with his 2016.

 

Honestly, not by much; I was so excited when they signed him because of his age and the potential of him being even better than he had been so far, and him only bouncing back to that point wouldn't point to a very rosy future. Certainly not a disaster, but just a pretty big let down in terms of a player I'm a big fan of and was hoping for great things from. Ah well.

[We Got The Whole 9]

What are the Cubs players ratings on the new Show?

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

 

Pitchers Jake Arrieta: 92 Jon Lester: 90 Kyle Hendricks: 87 John Lackey: 81 Mike Montgomery: 75 Justin Grimm: 80 (AAA) Rob Zastryzny: 56 (AA) Eddie Butler: 55 (A) Brett Anderson: 72 Koji Uehara: 83 Carl Edwards Jr: 79 Brian Duensing: 65 Pedro Strop: 84 Hector Rondon: 84 Wade Davis: 91

 

 

Position Players: Kyle Schwarber: 76 Kris Bryant: 94 Anthony Rizzo: 89 Ben Zobrist: 85 Addison Russell: 78 Jason Heyward: 78 Willson Contreras: 78 Jon Jay: 70 Miguel Montero: 74 Javier Baez: 81 Tommy La Stella: 69 Jeimer Candelario: 59 (AA) Munenori Kawasaki: 67 (AAA) Matt Szczur: 67 Albert Almora JR: 64

Thank you. I'm dying to play with these guys but haven't bought a new console yet. I think it's nigh time.

[Regular Show]

So no one wants to mention how Heyward looked last night? Yeah he got credited with a "base hit" but we all know if it weren't for the M. Carpenter misplay he would have been 0-4 yesterday...

 

I don't want to harp on this, but his swing still looks messed up and his timing is still off. Maybe he'll break out and his new swing mechanics will work out this season. I just find it funny so many people here think last season was a fluke and that he would be at least league-average this yr. I doubt that -- I seriously doubt that now.

 

To be fair to Heyward, a lot of Cubs players looked bad yesterday against C. Martinez. It seems like KB in particular really struggles against the Cardinals...

[Sammy Sofa]

So no one wants to mention how Heyward looked last night? Yeah he got credited with a "base hit" but we all know if it weren't for the M. Carpenter misplay he would have been 0-4 yesterday...

 

I don't want to harp on this, but his swing still looks messed up and his timing is still off. Maybe he'll break out and his new swing mechanics will work out this season. I just find it funny so many people here think last season was a fluke and that he would be at least league-average this yr. I doubt that -- I seriously doubt that now.

 

Well, you did wait one whole game before coming to this conclusion. Can't really argue with that.

[David]

also who are all these posters who think heyward will be at least league average at the plate

[Transmogrified Tiger]

All of the following is true:

 

- Heyward's new swing might not make a lick of difference in his production

- Most anyone who says 'his swing doesn't look any different/any better' by watching him on TV is full of nonsense

- You're gonna need a whole lot more than a single game against a very good SP to even approach making a conclusion on the new swing

 

 

Heyward was a good hitter for too long and is still too young to just throw in the towel on him being a productive hitter. At the same time, he's had wrist injuries and one of his problems is catching up to velocity, which a better swing might not help with. We will not know much of anything on that front for many weeks. The word of the day is Wait.

[jersey cubs fan]

, a lot of Cubs players looked bad yesterday against C. Martinez. It seems like KB in particular really struggles against the Cardinals...

Does that make you hard?

[Regular Show]

, a lot of Cubs players looked bad yesterday against C. Martinez. It seems like KB in particular really struggles against the Cardinals...

Does that make you hard?

 

What lol? No. I'm a Cubs fan so it makes me worry and somewhat upset. That's a strange response friend...does no one else notice that? Is it just me (In regards to KB's struggles against the Cardinals) because the stats definitely back it up.

[Regular Show]

, a lot of Cubs players looked bad yesterday against C. Martinez. It seems like KB in particular really struggles against the Cardinals...

Does that make you hard?

 

What lol? No. I'm a Cubs fan so it makes me worry and somewhat upset. That's a strange response friend...does no one else notice that? Is it just me (In regards to KB's struggles against the Cardinals) because the stats definitely back it up.

[David]

even if it meant anything (it doesn't), why would that "worry" you?

[Regular Show]

All of the following is true:

 

- Heyward's new swing might not make a lick of difference in his production

- Most anyone who says 'his swing doesn't look any different/any better' by watching him on TV is full of nonsense

- You're gonna need a whole lot more than a single game against a very good SP to even approach making a conclusion on the new swing

 

 

Heyward was a good hitter for too long and is still too young to just throw in the towel on him being a productive hitter. At the same time, he's had wrist injuries and one of his problems is catching up to velocity, which a better swing might not help with. We will not know much of anything on that front for many weeks. The word of the day is Wait.

 

I never said his swing doesn't look different/any better -- I said it still looks messed up and his timing still seems way off. Of course, we need to wait and be patient to see if maybe this new swing mechanics might make a difference and make him more productive. That's obvious. I hope I'm wrong and that all those scouts who were mentioned in that article on ESPN are also wrong. I really sincerely hope that J. Heyward will return to being at least league-average.

 

I just doubt that it'll actually happen. Especially watching his AB's in spring training and then watching him yesterday. I made the post because no one mentioned his struggles yesterday. Yeah it's just one game, but I think it's a sign of things to come...

[Splendid Splinter]

All of the following is true:

 

- Heyward's new swing might not make a lick of difference in his production

- Most anyone who says 'his swing doesn't look any different/any better' by watching him on TV is full of nonsense

- You're gonna need a whole lot more than a single game against a very good SP to even approach making a conclusion on the new swing

 

 

Heyward was a good hitter for too long and is still too young to just throw in the towel on him being a productive hitter. At the same time, he's had wrist injuries and one of his problems is catching up to velocity, which a better swing might not help with. We will not know much of anything on that front for many weeks. The word of the day is Wait.

 

I never said his swing doesn't look different/any better -- I said it still looks messed up and his timing still seems way off. Of course, we need to wait and be patient to see if maybe this new swing mechanics might make a difference and make him more productive. That's obvious. I hope I'm wrong and that all those scouts who were mentioned in that article on ESPN are also wrong. I really sincerely hope that J. Heyward will return to being at least league-average.

 

I just doubt that it'll actually happen. Especially watching his AB's in spring training and then watching him yesterday. I made the post because no one mentioned his struggles yesterday. Yeah it's just one game, but I think it's a sign of things to come...

 

It's only one game, but Kris Bryant is going to set the single season K record this year.

[Regular Show]

also who are all these posters who think heyward will be at least league average at the plate

 

It seems to me that a lot of smart Cubs fans think he'll bounce back and be at least league-average. I was arguing with someone on here which contract I'd rather have on the Cubs payroll going forward: D. Fowler's 5- yr contract vs. J. Heyward's 7-yr contract. I said it was pretty simple to me. I'd easily take D. Fowler's contract assuming J. Heyward is not opting out. Some poster responded to me by stating that is assuming a lot of things: that Heyward won't return to his normal level of production, that Fowler's defense in CF will be average instead of below-average like in other years, etc.

 

We can make a poll I guess: How many people think J. Heyward will be worth 1+ WAR, 2+ WAR, 3+ WAR, etc. or just return to his average career numbers?

Edited April 4, 2017 by Regular Show

[Regular Show]

All of the following is true:

 

- Heyward's new swing might not make a lick of difference in his production

- Most anyone who says 'his swing doesn't look any different/any better' by watching him on TV is full of nonsense

- You're gonna need a whole lot more than a single game against a very good SP to even approach making a conclusion on the new swing

 

 

Heyward was a good hitter for too long and is still too young to just throw in the towel on him being a productive hitter. At the same time, he's had wrist injuries and one of his problems is catching up to velocity, which a better swing might not help with. We will not know much of anything on that front for many weeks. The word of the day is Wait.

 

I never said his swing doesn't look different/any better -- I said it still looks messed up and his timing still seems way off. Of course, we need to wait and be patient to see if maybe this new swing mechanics might make a difference and make him more productive. That's obvious. I hope I'm wrong and that all those scouts who were mentioned in that article on ESPN are also wrong. I really sincerely hope that J. Heyward will return to being at least league-average.

 

I just doubt that it'll actually happen. Especially watching his AB's in spring training and then watching him yesterday. I made the post because no one mentioned his struggles yesterday. Yeah it's just one game, but I think it's a sign of things to come...

 

It's only one game, but Kris Bryant is going to set the single season K record this year.

 

I'm not worried about KB. That quote "Yeah it's just one game, but I think it's a sign of things to come..." is in reference to J. Heyward. Please don't take my quotes out of context

[Regular Show]

All of the following is true:

 

- Heyward's new swing might not make a lick of difference in his production

- Most anyone who says 'his swing doesn't look any different/any better' by watching him on TV is full of nonsense

- You're gonna need a whole lot more than a single game against a very good SP to even approach making a conclusion on the new swing

 

 

Heyward was a good hitter for too long and is still too young to just throw in the towel on him being a productive hitter. At the same time, he's had wrist injuries and one of his problems is catching up to velocity, which a better swing might not help with. We will not know much of anything on that front for many weeks. The word of the day is Wait.

 

I never said his swing doesn't look different/any better -- I said it still looks messed up and his timing still seems way off. Of course, we need to wait and be patient to see if maybe this new swing mechanics might make a difference and make him more productive. That's obvious. I hope I'm wrong and that all those scouts who were mentioned in that article on ESPN are also wrong. I really sincerely hope that J. Heyward will return to being at least league-average.

 

I just doubt that it'll actually happen. Especially watching his AB's in spring training and then watching him yesterday. I made the post because no one mentioned his struggles yesterday. Yeah it's just one game, but I think it's a sign of things to come...

 

It's only one game, but Kris Bryant is going to set the single season K record this year.

 

I'm not worried about KB. That quote "Yeah it's just one game, but I think it's a sign of things to come..." is in reference to J. Heyward. Please don't take my quotes out of context

[Splendid Splinter]

It's one game dude. What if Heyward goes 3-4 tomorrow? Is he fixed then? Just wait til like June and if he's still hitting like crap, then ok, there's a problem.

 

Even if he doesn't, he still provide value with his defense and baserunning.

[Regular Show]

It's one game dude. What if Heyward goes 3-4 tomorrow? Is he fixed then? Just wait til like June and if he's still hitting like crap, then ok, there's a problem.

 

Even if he doesn't, he still provide value with his defense and baserunning.

 

If he goes 3-4 tomorrow I'll be very happy, but I won't say he's fixed either.

 

I mean I don't know know when fans started saying there was something wrong with J. Heyward last yr before we all agreed there was definitely a problem. If you want to wait till June that's fine. Honestly I hope I'm wrong and you're right -- that I'm making a stupid judgement call based around video of his swings during the offseason, watching his AB's during ST and this first game against a very dominant pitcher.

 

Even if he doesn't hit he does indeed provide value with his defense and baserunning, but we'll have to start benching him.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Willson already has more career HR against the Cards than KB does. It's obviously a terribly small sample but so far it does seem like Molina has won the cat and mouse game vs KB the majority of the time and he simply hasn't barreled up many balls against Cards pitchers yet. I'm sure when it's all said and done his numbers vs them will bear out similarly to his career line but at this point he has looked a little over matched, FWIW.

[Cubswin11]

Willson already has more career HR against the Cards than KB does. It's obviously a terribly small sample but so far it does seem like Molina has won the cat and mouse game vs KB the majority of the time and he simply hasn't barreled up many balls against Cards pitchers yet. I'm sure when it's all said and done his numbers vs them will bear out similarly to his career line but at this point he has looked a little over matched, FWIW.

All we can really take away from this is Willson is probably the best catcher in baseball. And he fell to us out of the clouds. #PraiseTheo (probably should really be McLeod but let's keep his ego down so his stays around longer than he should).