soccer soccer soccer

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

I’m struggling to grasp this. So it’s like the Champions League except that the 12 teams that already make it almost every year and now guaranteed to make it?

 

It would be like if Clemson, Bama and OSU started their own playoff with a 4th team invited every year

 

I’m still not 100% sure if this is “we’ll make our own champions league, with blackjack and hookers” or if they’re going to leave domestic leagues and play super league year round. I’ve seen rumors implying both over the course of the day. Seems like the defecting teams are trying to get enough teams to join them so they can at least legitimately threaten the latter, since with the former the domestic leagues/FIFA could probably make life pretty hard for them.

[wolf stansson]

This is disgusting

[imb]

 

I’m struggling to grasp this. So it’s like the Champions League except that the 12 teams that already make it almost every year and now guaranteed to make it?

 

It would be like if Clemson, Bama and OSU started their own playoff with a 4th team invited every year

 

pretty much. guarantee the CL money without having to worry about qualifying for the CL. They say 15 automatics and 5 qualifiers every year ... no idea how they decide who the 5 qualifiers are.

[soccer10k]

This is disgusting

 

Yep. I’d be pretty much out on both Spurs and European soccer if this happens.

 

For Spurs, there’s already a slim chance of them winning any major trophy (I don’t count the League Cup, FA Cup probably qualifies). I’m not in the trophies or bust camp anyway but at least the last few years they won more than they lost, we’re regulars in the UCL and had tons of great moments. In this league, they’d be a mid-table side at best with no chance of ever catching those top 7 or so teams. So now they’re not winning anything and at best, winning as often as they lose? I’m out. I get the club would do it for the money but that means jack horsefeathers to me.

 

As for Euro soccer, part of what makes the UCL fun is seeing random matchups between the big teams you don’t get to see every year. But Bayern-Real (or insert whatever big clubs you want) loses a lot of luster to me if they play twice a year.

 

I hate every part of this.

[wvcbxl]

José out at Spurs effective immediately. :shock:

[imb]

José out at Spurs effective immediately. :shock:

 

why get rid of him right after he led them to qualification for the super league?!??!?

[wolf stansson]

José out at Spurs effective immediately. :shock:

 

why get rid of him right after he led them to qualification for the super league?!??!?

LMAO, Levy's like, "you mean I don't have to put up with this horsefeathers now that our financial future is secure AND the press isn't going to be able to cover it breathlessly because they're distracted by football turning it's back on 100+ years of tradition? Let's go!"

 

 

I'm starting to come around to the crowd that thinks this is a stunt to get concessions on larger TV rights shares and Champions League reforms.

[soccer10k]

José out at Spurs effective immediately. :shock:

 

[soccer10k]

José out at Spurs effective immediately. :shock:

 

why get rid of him right after he led them to qualification for the super league?!??!?

 

I take it back.

 

LONG LIVE THE SUPER LEAGUE!

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm starting to come around to the crowd that thinks this is a stunt to get concessions on larger TV rights shares and Champions League reforms.

 

Yeah I saw Grant Wahl comparing it to burofax day in the Messi saga and that feels like a decent comparison. I'm not as completely hostile to the idea of 'super leagues' as many(if you include the invited clubs, that group has been both finalists for champions league every year since 2004 and 95+% of domestic titles since then, so what are we really changing), but the more I think of it, the more I think the current version is the worst possible outcome. I hope the leagues and FIFA/UEFA call the bluff and kick them out and the super league either backs down or goes all in and makes a full league. The domestic leagues(especially the EPL) would lose a bit in the latter scenario, but not as much as a lot of folks seem to think, IMO.

[stitchface]

I'm starting to come around to the crowd that thinks this is a stunt to get concessions on larger TV rights shares and Champions League reforms.

 

Yeah I saw Grant Wahl comparing it to burofax day in the Messi saga and that feels like a decent comparison. I'm not as completely hostile to the idea of 'super leagues' as many(if you include the invited clubs, that group has been both finalists for champions league every year since 2004 and 95+% of domestic titles since then, so what are we really changing), but the more I think of it, the more I think the current version is the worst possible outcome. I hope the leagues and FIFA/UEFA call the bluff and kick them out and the super league either backs down or goes all in and makes a full league. The domestic leagues(especially the EPL) would lose a bit in the latter scenario, but not as much as a lot of folks seem to think, IMO.

 

 

I think the big six want to be in the CL every year. Not as much of an issue in other countries where the top teams all make it every year anyway. I don't feel like I give up much losing the twice yearly matchup between Barca and Valladolid . . . to some degree, would be interesting to have domestic leagues that give opportunities for minnows to win every year. That just doesn't happen anymore. It's more like college football in the US.

[imb]

this weekend is a good example about what sucks ass about all this

 

Chelsea is away to West Ham saturday. A West Ham win would likely cement Chelsea being unable to catch them. A Chelsea win makes it much more likely they finish top 4. I was eagerly anticipating this match because there was so much on the line.

 

Now ... it's borderline meaningless (maybe) and any similar future fixtures wouldn't mean anything. Neither Chelsea nor West Ham are going to win the league - what matters is finishing top 4. But replace the UCL with the USL and suddenly it's meaningless for both sides.

 

And on a more macro level, all of this is currently up in the air. What if Chelsea goes in flat, feeling like the outcome doesnt matter, they lose the match, lose a chance at top 4, and the USL proposal falls apart or gets pushed back to 2022?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

this weekend is a good example about what sucks ass about all this

 

Chelsea is away to West Ham saturday. A West Ham win would likely cement Chelsea being unable to catch them. A Chelsea win makes it much more likely they finish top 4. I was eagerly anticipating this match because there was so much on the line.

 

Now ... it's borderline meaningless (maybe) and any similar future fixtures wouldn't mean anything. Neither Chelsea nor West Ham are going to win the league - what matters is finishing top 4. But replace the UCL with the USL and suddenly it's meaningless for both sides.

 

And on a more macro level, all of this is currently up in the air. What if Chelsea goes in flat, feeling like the outcome doesnt matter, they lose the match, lose a chance at top 4, and the USL proposal falls apart or gets pushed back to 2022?

 

I think it's also sad that (your rooting interests aside) this is about as much as we can hope for in terms of competitive excitement from European soccer. The pandemic year and congestion has leveled the playing field a bit more, but outside of Lille trying desperately to hold off PSG, you have Man City and Bayern coasting, the same Spanish names locked in at the top, and even with Juve not winning for the first time in a decade it'll be another Super League team winning Serie A. That's why I really hope FAs/Confederations use this opportunity to go nuclear and force the envelope. Michael Cox makes this point more eloquently than me here: https://theathletic.com/2529349/2021/04/19/europes-leagues-are-broken-a-super-league-might-be-the-only-solution/

[stitchface]

this weekend is a good example about what sucks ass about all this

 

Chelsea is away to West Ham saturday. A West Ham win would likely cement Chelsea being unable to catch them. A Chelsea win makes it much more likely they finish top 4. I was eagerly anticipating this match because there was so much on the line.

 

Now ... it's borderline meaningless (maybe) and any similar future fixtures wouldn't mean anything. Neither Chelsea nor West Ham are going to win the league - what matters is finishing top 4. But replace the UCL with the USL and suddenly it's meaningless for both sides.

 

And on a more macro level, all of this is currently up in the air. What if Chelsea goes in flat, feeling like the outcome doesnt matter, they lose the match, lose a chance at top 4, and the USL proposal falls apart or gets pushed back to 2022?

 

I think it's also sad that (your rooting interests aside) this is about as much as we can hope for in terms of competitive excitement from European soccer. The pandemic year and congestion has leveled the playing field a bit more, but outside of Lille trying desperately to hold off PSG, you have Man City and Bayern coasting, the same Spanish names locked in at the top, and even with Juve not winning for the first time in a decade it'll be another Super League team winning Serie A. That's why I really hope FAs/Confederations use this opportunity to go nuclear and force the envelope. Michael Cox makes this point more eloquently than me here: https://theathletic.com/2529349/2021/04/19/europes-leagues-are-broken-a-super-league-might-be-the-only-solution/

 

Looks to me like it replaces the champions league and was put forth because the ECA capitulated on the CL changes. Teams would still play domestically. Reinforces my thought that this is largely about EPL teams not wanting to have to compete to get into the CL. I think they will force different changes to the CL.

 

I actually don't think FIFA can stop it. They aren't going to ban the best players from internationals - that's a lose-lose. And they aren't going to ban clubs from domestic leagues. The big clubs hold all the cards. Fans aren't going to stay away - they will flock in droves. I think the resistance comes down to nostalgia to when QPR had a chance to win the EPL. As it is, sure West Ham can make the CL but then they are screwed next year because they don't have the resources to compete on multiple fronts. Summarily, the system is already broken.

[squally1313]

If these teams didn't lock themselves into a spot every year, would you guys support this super league idea as the ultimate promotion goal of the big European leagues? Top 3 teams from each league join at the beginning, worst team of those three gets sent back to the domestic league and the champion gets pushed up?

[imb]

For me, Im not some 30-year longterm fan with memories of UCL highlights from the late 90s, so if there's some better option for a continental competition, im all for it. I just hate the automatic spots for the rich clubs, it defeats so much of what I enjoy about european soccer in that there is a risk for horsefeathering up. In the super league format there's no risk. If Arsenal finishes 15th in the super league, oh well, the money is there to chase the next superstar.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If these teams didn't lock themselves into a spot every year, would you guys support this super league idea as the ultimate promotion goal of the big European leagues? Top 3 teams from each league join at the beginning, worst team of those three gets sent back to the domestic league and the champion gets pushed up?

 

Honestly, if it were an out and out league and not a concurrent tournament like Champions League, I don't care if they lock themselves in. There'd be some negative side effects, but an oligarch premier league would be entertaining, and more importantly, would make all the other domestic leagues much more competitive even at a slightly lower competitive level. What I was maybe poorly articulating above is that I hope everyone else pushes them to the point where the fork in the road is that or the status quo. A champions league replacement with rich teams auto-qualifying is the worst case scenario.

[stitchface]

If these teams didn't lock themselves into a spot every year, would you guys support this super league idea as the ultimate promotion goal of the big European leagues? Top 3 teams from each league join at the beginning, worst team of those three gets sent back to the domestic league and the champion gets pushed up?

 

Honestly, if it were an out and out league and not a concurrent tournament like Champions League, I don't care if they lock themselves in. There'd be some negative side effects, but an oligarch premier league would be entertaining, and more importantly, would make all the other domestic leagues much more competitive even at a slightly lower competitive level. What I was maybe poorly articulating above is that I hope everyone else pushes them to the point where the fork in the road is that or the status quo. A champions league replacement with rich teams auto-qualifying is the worst case scenario.

 

The way it's described makes it sound almost like a third tier European competition where the CL and EL continue. This was helpful. https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-marcottis-musings/story/4363633/uefa-and-leagues-vow-to-fight-breakaway-european-super-league-what-this-means

 

One thing not being discussed is how the travel impacts the players - there is always that discussion amongst Europeans who come to the US and then are shocked to have to fly from Miami to Seattle for a game . . . I don't think the players can tolerate any additional games.

 

All I'm hearing right now in resistance is teeth-gnashing and nostalgia - I don't think that will have any impact. UEFA and FIFA are so corrupt, I wonder if they can actually put together any sort of challenge to their authority - which is likely illegal.

[bukie]

I wouldn't hate a theoretical Club Super League if if were a replacement league, as long as they made the following changes:

 

- No double dipping, just play in the Super League for that season, cut down on the overall number of games.

- No automatic place in the league for rich clubs. Federations with multiple teams have to at least have their worst club at risk of relegation each year, and teams that win their respective national leagues can earn their way into the Super League.

- Allow teams from any federation in UEFA to at least try to earn their way into the league through playoffs, similar to how the UCL playoffs function now. Maybe even have a tier-2 Super League or default to Champions League for teams that fail to qualify for the Super League, so those teams still have something to compete for during the season.

- 4 automatic spots in the league is too many for any one federation, even if it's a top tier federation. Should be 2 at most, maybe even just the top team in each federation gets an automatic spot in the league?

[wolf stansson]

There is already a club super league. It’s called MLS and it’s very fun.

 

 

Anyway, here’s Brian Phillips with the definitive American perspective:

 

[imb]

There is already a club super league. It’s called MLS and it’s very fun.

 

 

Anyway, here’s Brian Phillips with the definitive American perspective:

 

 

There are 475,000,000 European soccer clubs.

Many, if not most, fans largely pay attention to around 16 of the most successful of these clubs, and somehow also Tottenham Hotspur.

[wolf stansson]

The “complain about independent book stores going out of business while buying 90% of your books on Amazon” analogy felt unnecessarily personal, but the article is good other than that flagrant call out of me, personally.

[stitchface]

The “complain about independent book stores going out of business while buying 90% of your books on Amazon” analogy felt unnecessarily personal, but the article is good other than that flagrant call out of me, personally.

 

 

I enjoyed it. Captures a lot of different issues of the day. Complain about global warming but drive an SUV.

[imb]

 

just here for the shithousery

[soccer10k]

I mean, based on the last few years, it’s Arsenal that is the Laettner of the group. But Phillips is probably an Arsenal fan and didn’t want to insult his own shitty team.

 

Actually, that’s not true. Arsenal is actually Larry Bird. Best years are long in the past, shadow of what they once were, don’t actually help out anymore but people still think they’re important based on name only and not do to any actual ability or usefulness.