Minor League Musings

[Aaron_Kennelly]

Oh no, Albert Almora might be our 8th or 9th hitter next year, on a platoon/part-time basis. However will our, like, six six-win players hitting above him be able to survive!?

 

Your sarcasm is even less effective than when you flipped out last summer over my preference for Heyward over Price. So he's untouchable in trades because you imagine there to be 6 true talent 6 win hitters on the roster in 2017? As sound as that science might be, seems pretty hokey from here.

 

You got me, I think Albert Almora is untouchable.

 

Or maybe I just think you are weird about certain things and you have a one-track mind and get on these delusional quests, and you fixate on certain players and ignore all evidence that contradicts your preconceived notions.

 

But, no, I don't think Albert Almora is untouchable or anything close to it. And I don't have him penciled in as part of the core or anything. I think he's an intriguing player that might help us off-set the loss of Fowler -- you know the one guy we will lose this off-season.

 

And I think Willson Contreras is legit. And yet you want to trade him. And you also, at the same time, want to acquire Austin Barnes and Mike Zunino and lord knows what other catchers. I think that's, frankly, insane, to trade the best catching prospect in the minors so we can take on a retread like Zunino.

 

But, I don't think anyone is untouchable. I think there is a spot waiting for Contreras and that he would fit in nicely on this team. So I would prefer not to trade him. But if he gets traded, I assume we would be getting back something nice that can also help the team. So I wouldn't be too broken up about it. But I am not clamoring for the Mike Zuninos of the world when we have him stashed in Iowa.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

And, yes, I was wrong about Heyward/Price. I was way off on it. Granted, I thought the money would be similar on their deals. I think the Heyward deal was really solid for us. And I also didn't realize we had enough money to still land John Lackey (and Ben Zobrist, for that matter).

 

But, yes, I was wrong. And I've admitted as much.

 

But, do you really want to cast stones, Mr. Please Sign Pablo Sandoval for 2015?

[Tim]

Every player is available in the right deal, I think we all agree on that. If these guys net us Tom's dream of Jose Fernandez, I'm pretty sure we'd be sad to see Contreras go while being very excited about having a stud SP. I have faith in this FO to properly evaluate the talent and the risks involved.

[sneakypower]

ok so Zunino is catcher Khalil Greene then

[Aaron_Kennelly]

Every player is available in the right deal, I think we all agree on that. If these guys net us Tom's dream of Jose Fernandez, I'm pretty sure we'd be sad to see Contreras go while being very excited about having a stud SP. I have faith in this FO to properly evaluate the talent and the risks involved.

 

Agreed. And if you look through the trade deadline thread and elsewhere, I've been clamoring for a trade for a stud, young pitcher. Obviously, that is gonna cost us. If we lost Contreras in a deal for Jose Fernandez, then sayonara, Willson.

 

And if a team wants us to include Almora in a trade that can help us, I'll pack his bags for him. I really don't care too deeply for Almora. I like that he seems to have rejuvenated his career. And I am thrilled that we have a guy like that in Iowa, at a position that has a murky forecast in our future. But, I'm all aboard if we have to trade him to get a stud pitcher, or anything really.

 

My problem with Tom on the issue of Contreras and Almora has nothing to do with me thinking they are untouchable, or anything like that. I am just tired of him flogging them as guys that have no future here. His continued disregard for them as irritating. They are good prospects and they are close to major league ready. And they definitely could fit in on this team. It's not a necessity that they do, but they can resolve some issues. Contreras, in particular, is a guy that I think is really good and could step right in and join in on the fun.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

Also, Tom I didn't flip out last summer during the Heyward/Price discussion. I think I was cordial and we engaged in forthright discourse. Also it wasn't just a question of Heyward vs. Price; there were other nuances, such as if we should re-sign Fowler. (And we got both, which has been pretty great.) I never had a problem with Heyward or thought it would be dumb to sign him, though. It was simply a preference for what I thought to be a better fit, due to team needs and my lack of understanding what our payroll would look like.

 

Anyway, I just looked through that thread and I really love this part. We were discussing team needs and you mentioned some skills and tools that our lineup was missing. I said that we actually were good at a lot of them, except for outfield defense and contact ability. But, then I went into a thing about how I didn't care where our value came from as long as we were getting good value. Anyway, it was some good back-and-forth. But this part was prescient:

As for contact and OF defense, you've got me there. But, if a team was good at literally every aspect of baseball, they would be a pretty [expletive] good team.

 

Silly me, not recognizing that we actually would be good at literally every aspect of baseball.

[David]

My problem with Tom on the issue of Contreras and Almora has nothing to do with me thinking they are untouchable, or anything like that. I am just tired of him flogging them as guys that have no future here. His continued disregard for them as irritating. They are good prospects and they are close to major league ready. And they definitely could fit in on this team. It's not a necessity that they do, but they can resolve some issues. Contreras, in particular, is a guy that I think is really good and could step right in and join in on the fun.

 

Most of that is in your head. Talking about prospects as trade bait when your young, talented ML roster is either looking or going to be looking for SP is just acknowledging the realities of what that might cost. Spinning my opinions into them being bad prospects is probably the root of all this, that has never been my position.

 

Pretty sure you've literally said things along the lines of, "Hopefully, we can trick other teams into believing that too," when people have spoken highly of Almora and Contreras.

[imb]

ok so Zunino is catcher Khalil Greene then

 

lmao thats what i took from that as well

[CubsWin]

Didn't miss your point so much as strongly disagree that those guys are safe, untouchable, and on par with the guys currently making up the core of this team.

This is what I mean by missing my points. I never said they were safe or untouchable or on par with the guys currently making up the core of this team. I said they were two prospects (good ones, too) that play positions the Cubs will likely have open next season. I also said they play positions (catcher and centerfield) that are more difficult to find than reliever.

[CubsWin]

I especially think this of Almora. I don't believe glove first, light hitting OFs are all that hard to find nor do they cost much. This is the first time he's really putting together an offensive season since A ball in 2013, and he is doing it in a league where everyone hits. Hell, the Iowa Cubs as a whole are putting up a .780 OPS, including a .353 OBP.

I think this is a valid opinion. Just not the only valid opinion. We agree that Almora is not an offensive powerhouse. I really don't care how a prospect performed in previous years if he's talented, young for his league, has the make-up and work ethic to improve through adversity, has shown the ability to play well previously and is in a developmentally sound organization like the Cubs are now.

 

I care what he's become. The jury is still out on that, but the fact that the league he's hitting well in is the PCL is only a part of the context that gives those numbers meaning. So is his age, the number of other players at his position that are matching him, etc. We both acknowledge he is strong defensively. That's important, too, as is the fact that he's playing a premier defensive position.

 

If Almora were middle of the pack in the PCL, that would mean something. He's not. He's 17th in AVG in a list where you only need 36 ABs to qualify. Everyone above him is 24 or older. In fact, 10 of the 16 hitters ahead of him are 28 or older and not one of them is a CFer. Almora is 22 in his 1st year in AAA. He's currently 36th in SLG. There are two 22-year-olds ahead of him, Renato Nunez and Dilson Herrera. That's not middle of the pack in a league with 12 teams in it. Among players his age, he's one of the best in the league and the best CFer.

[CubsWin]

In context, his season isn't even *that* impressive, let alone on par with what those guys in the majors did. From there the FO originally signed Heyward to play CF before Fowler fell into their laps, and he's all of 27 in 2017 so it's not exactly a given that he will never get a shot at CF here.

Again, never said it was on par with what guys in the majors were doing offensively. Bringing up the signing of Heyward as a CFer is a point that doesn't support your position because no one ever said they signed him to be their CFer for the length of his contract. Just for this season. The earliest Almora could be ready would be next season.

[CubsWin]

I have not once said that those are the only two guys to trade, and I am not the one limiting the trade possibilities. Taking those guys off the table and giving them roster spots in 2017 is limiting the possibilities. Nor have I said teams would not be interested in Happ and Torres. Those points are not arguing against anything that has been said.

You're correct. You have not limited the prospects to be traded to just Almora and Contreras. You did suggest those two (and only those two) in the post that kicked off this discussion. Some responded to that post saying why those two when they fill immediate holes in 2017. You could've responded by saying, it could be others, too, but you didn't.

 

Instead, in a response to a list that included Torres and Happ, you responded by saying: "Your generosity knows no bounds They can basically pick from an A ball SS, Edwards (who unlike the other two has no shot at a 2017 roster spot already slated for him, I assume?), and then anyone under performing in the system. Maybe throw in Vogelbach to really really sweeten the pot?"

 

That sounds like you're scoffing at that list, dismissing it out of hand and saying teams wouldn't be interested in those guys to me. Does it to you or am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

 

It also precludes anyone currently underperforming to bounce back and be traded then. No one is saying that these hypothetical trades would be happening now. It would be great to get a mid-20s TOR or MOR with upside before Arrieta's contract is up, though.

[sneakypower]

ok so situate Heyward in CF, cool now we have a big hole in RF

 

trading Almora and Contreras makes absolutely zero sense, period

[Tim]

ok so situate Heyward in CF, cool now we have a big hole in RF

 

trading Almora and Contreras makes absolutely zero sense, period

Soler, Almora and Contreras for Trout

[jersey cubs fan]

trading Almora and Contreras makes absolutely zero sense, period

 

Albert Almora?

 

I imagine there's quite a few situations where it would make perfect sense.

[sneakypower]

ok so situate Heyward in CF, cool now we have a big hole in RF

 

trading Almora and Contreras makes absolutely zero sense, period

Soler, Almora and Contreras for Trout

that still makes absolutely zero sense because i think we can assume Arte doesn't want his own fans to murder him and then shortly afterward perform a posthumous execution

[sneakypower]

trading Almora and Contreras makes absolutely zero sense, period

 

Albert Almora?

 

I imagine there's quite a few situations where it would make perfect sense.

together (with Contreras)

 

still, give me a plausible scenario where it happens...best i can imagine is Soler with a total monster breakout, hitting like 30 HR the rest of the way, but even then i suspect he's the one pushed more in trade talks as a sell-high opportunity (also this isn't plausible, he stinks)

[CubsWin]

- Do you think Almora and Contreras can get whatever pitcher they want, just the two of them? It should be obvious that you're misunderstanding just by glancing at any prospects for SP trades that have been made recently or probably ever.

 

- How do you work it out in your head that they gave 26 year old Heyward a 7 year contract with an opt out after age 28 and 29 to play CF only this year?

Oh boy.

 

If the Cubs signed Jason Heyward to be their CFer for the next 8 years (it was an 8-year contract with opt outs, not 7) at the exclusion of any and all possibilities, then why did they sign Fowler? Why isn't he playing CF right now? They signed him because he's got a good bat, gives consistently solid at bats, doesn't K a lot, is arguably the best defensive RFer in the game, is an elite baserunner and has the ability to play CF well. Nothing was locked in. Why would the Cubs lock in on anything? They're all about flexibility.

 

The talk of Heyward playing CF was as a result of the roster construction at the time of his signing. That changed when Fowler returned. It changed again when Schwarber got injured. It will change again when Fowler very likely signs an expensive and long-ish FA contract this off-season with another team. Them mentioning he would play some CF this year certainly has nothing to say about how the Cubs feel about Almora's future with the team. It provides options in case Almora proves unable to hit major league pitching soon enough for their championship window.

 

Where did anyone say that Almora and Contreras alone would bring back any pitcher the Cubs desired? Where are you getting this stuff?

 

The only one who has brought up trading Almora and Contreras (and only them) for a pitcher was, wait for it... you. You asked "what would the reaction be like if Almora and Contreras were traded in the same deal for pitching? How would the press react?" I think you got a range of reactions. The weirdness came in when you attacked some of the reactions you asked for as unreasonable.

 

I'm moving on.

[CubsWin]

Please be moving on from this. As this is going, it's more tedious than interesting.

Nice. I already said I was. But I learned a lot from this back and forth. Not about baseball, but...

[imb]

Unfortunate that you learned nothing, but not on me. Saying and doing are two different things so please actually move on and let it go.

 

----

 

Anyway, to hopefully expedite that process here's a fluff piece on Gleyber Torres:

 

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20160510&content_id=177386866&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb

 

He's been more patient at the plate. Earlier, he was trying do too much. He was swinging at pitches out of the zone, the way a lot of players get into trouble," Bailey said. "It isn't his swing or anything like that, it's basically what you swing at. But he's gotten comfortable and he's trying do less.

 

"His pitch selection has gotten better and, obviously, the results are better. Plus, he's a Venezuelan kid and the weather was cold in April and now it's getting a little warmer. A few things are coming together at the same time."

 

and another:

 

https://t.co/PfIQ1kCj14

 

Before going 0-4 with 4 Ks tonight, Eddy Julio Martinez wasn't doing so bad this May either (.242/.381/.455 while knocking down his K rate a little and upping his walk rate a little).

 

holy horsefeathers, shut up

[TruffleShuffle]

almora has a 14 game hitting streak, 4th longest in the PCL this season.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

So, after a somewhat rough April, things are looking pretty good down on the farm right now. The high upside guys are doing well. Eloy and Gleyber are both faring very well. There's been good news out of Arizona on Cease and Hudson. There's some other intriguing young talent down at instructs. Then, you have Trevor Clifton putting together a couple really nice starts. The two guys closest to the majors -- Contreras and Almora -- are off to strong starts. Caratini is establishing himself as another nice catching prospect. Edwards and Concepcion are looking like bullpen candidates in the near future. Some of the ancillary guys like Vogelbach and Chesny Young have done well. We're still missing high upside starting pitching in the upper levels. But, still, a really nice showing by some of our most important prospects.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Eloy Jimenez is #3 on this week's BA Prospect Hot Sheet:

 

Baseball America[/url]"]3. Eloy Jimenez, of, Cubs

http://cdn.baseballamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/3ds_cubs79.jpg

 

 

Team: low Class A South Bend (Midwest)

Age: 19

Why He’s Here: .500/.536/.885 (13-for-26), 6 R, 1 2B, 3 HR, 6 RBIs, 2 BB, 5 SO, 1-for-1 SB

 

The Scoop: The top international prospect available in 2013, Jimenez has more consistently unlocked his incredible raw power in his full-season debut this season, particularly in May. The long-levered, teen, corner outfielder struck four extra-base hits in the Midwest League this week, and he has recorded a .222 isolated slugging percentage in his last 16 games. (ME)

[Thrilho]

 

That's some easy power and a pretty level swing. Imagine if the Cubs had gotten 17 year old Jorge and had all the time in the world to develop him.

 

You might say "don't swing so hard, you don't really need to. You want to just make contact, so swing soft and level for a while, hit a bunch of singles. Try not to strike out too much, hit singles and the power will come. I mean have you seen that picture of you next to Manny Ramirez? You're huge!"

 

Well that might be what they did with Eloy. Either way, that's a good looking swing.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

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