2015 Bears Offseason (Foxy new Head Coach page 104)

[jersey cubs fan]

Jeff George wishes he put up Jay's numbers.

 

Eh, he had a few good years. The comparison isn't really the problem, it's more that people think George was this horrible QB when he was mostly decent.

 

I guess in that way he's very much like Cutler.

Oh I agree, but Cutler's numbers are absolutely better than George's.

George: 131 games, 57.9% completion percentage, 27,602 yards, 154 TD/113 INT for an 80.4 rating (and 41 fumbles)

 

Cutler: 119 games, 61.7% completion percentage, 27,749 yards, 183 TD/130 INT for an 85.2 rating (and 45 fumbles)

 

If you put Jeff George behind the lines that Jay Cutler has had to work behind, I'm sure those numbers change quite a bit.

Jay has 1,100 more yards from his feet, with 8 TD compared to 2.

[Guest]

But a GM is starting fresh now. What's the point of firing Emery if this new GM will be starting fresh (again) in 2 years?

 

They can hire a GM, keep Cutler, and try to win the next couple years, while still turning over the roster, with a coach other than Shanahan. This shouldn't be a Cubs like situation. You get your Maddon now if you feel he's out there. You don't waste a couple years with Dale Swuem, while you get the roster together.

 

There is no Maddon. If anything, Shanahan is the closest thing to a Maddon. He's not Dale Freaking Sveum.

 

The fact is the GM isn't really starting fresh. You have big contracts with cap ramifications this year. You can accelerate the fresh start by cutting everybody, taking the hit and maybe drafting first next year. That would be a fresh start. But I think that type of Cubs like dive is dumb and inappropriate. There is no established GM with a proven track record of hiring the right guys. I'd rather give a guy a few years to get the lay of the land as a GM with his own staff than tie him to his first hire as a long-term situation. Whoever the next coach is, if he wins, he will gain more and more power. The responsibility for winning next year is on the next coach. The responsibility for winning longterm is on the GM.

 

I agree with you. I am just (irrationally?) worried the defense is unfixable.

[Guest]

Does Perry Fewell go at the top of the list of a theoretical Dave Toub coaching staff?

I think for any non Defensive HC he'd have to be a top candidate as DC. But he does have a Toub connection in particular.

[rawaction]

No. My argument comes down to Shanahan being old, and his sole reason for candidicacy is he had success with Cutler 7-8 years ago as far as I can tell.

 

Take Cutler out of the equation.

 

 

I think Shanahan is the only established Super Bowl winning head coach on the market with a history of winning in multiple locations. He's won with multiple quarterbacks, including mediocre kids, stars on the decline and journeymen veterans.

 

That resume is the best one on the market.

 

Now add the fact that he has a history with Cutler and there are multiple good reasons to consider him the best option for the next 3-4 years. He is old, but he's practically the same age that Coughlin was when he won his first SB and younger than he was when he won his second. He's also younger than Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick.

 

I am taking Cutler out of the equation, that's why I don't want Shanahan. That resume is great. He's a HoF coach. But I guess I don't want an established coach that established himself for the most part 10-15 years ago. I wouldn't hire Coughlin if he were on the market. And I'd only hire Carroll and Belichick because they are winning now, and Belichick has an amazing coaching tree. Shanahan's been away for a year and only had a winning record 1 time in his previous 6 seasons as coach. 48-64 since 2006, and that's with a 10-win season mixed in.

[RynoRules]

EDIT to my earlier opinion: Shanahan may have been a great coach at one time; he isn't a great coach any longer.

[Guest]

But a GM is starting fresh now. What's the point of firing Emery if this new GM will be starting fresh (again) in 2 years?

 

They can hire a GM, keep Cutler, and try to win the next couple years, while still turning over the roster, with a coach other than Shanahan. This shouldn't be a Cubs like situation. You get your Maddon now if you feel he's out there. You don't waste a couple years with Dale Swuem, while you get the roster together.

 

There is no Maddon. If anything, Shanahan is the closest thing to a Maddon. He's not Dale Freaking Sveum.

 

The fact is the GM isn't really starting fresh. You have big contracts with cap ramifications this year. You can accelerate the fresh start by cutting everybody, taking the hit and maybe drafting first next year. That would be a fresh start. But I think that type of Cubs like dive is dumb and inappropriate. There is no established GM with a proven track record of hiring the right guys. I'd rather give a guy a few years to get the lay of the land as a GM with his own staff than tie him to his first hire as a long-term situation. Whoever the next coach is, if he wins, he will gain more and more power. The responsibility for winning next year is on the next coach. The responsibility for winning longterm is on the GM.

 

I agree with you. I am just (irrationally?) worried the defense is unfixable.

 

I'm not as worried. I think a respected DC and with much higher 1st and 3rd round picks, the Bears can get at least 2 high quality guys from the draft. I think the Bears are set at most offensive positions outside of the OLine, so grab a lineman with one of the first 3 picks and spend the rest on defense. Grab another guy or two via free agency and I think they have the means to piece together a good enough defense. I think they have quite few good guys there already. Just need to build on that.

[jersey cubs fan]

A head coach that people can respect and a DC who is competent can go a long way toward improving the defense.

[rawaction]

EDIT to my earlier opinion: Shanahan may have been a great coach at one time; he isn't a great coach any longer.

 

Hence my opinion. Obviously, everyone doesn't agree with this. But if Shanahan isn't a great coach anymore. Why hire him? Especially when combined with the fact is best case he's gone in 2-3 years?

[Guest]

EDIT to my earlier opinion: Shanahan may have been a great coach at one time; he isn't a great coach any longer.

 

Hence my opinion. Obviously, everyone doesn't agree with this. But if Shanahan isn't a great coach anymore. Why hire him? Especially when combined with the fact is best case he's gone in 2-3 years?

 

If best case he's gone in 2-3 years, why not go with him if he will willingly work with one of the most hated QB's in the history of mankind? They basically have the same length of time to prove something that way. How many of the other HC candidates will want to start their career as head coach in Chicago with Cutler as his QB?

[jersey cubs fan]

EDIT to my earlier opinion: Shanahan may have been a great coach at one time; he isn't a great coach any longer.

 

Hence my opinion. Obviously, everyone doesn't agree with this. But if Shanahan isn't a great coach anymore. Why hire him? Especially when combined with the fact is best case he's gone in 2-3 years?

 

I do not agree that 2-3 years is best case. Why is that best case?

 

Best case is they take a step forward in 2015 and actually contend in 2016. The new GM keeps plugging in young draft picks and the Bears win a lot in 2016/2017. Why is Shanahan then automatically gone in 2018? Cutler still has a longterm contract and it just gets more cap friendly as time goes on. QB can be a stable position and if your QB situation is settled you can win.

 

If Shanahan can get nothing out of Cutler in the next couple years and the team stays under .500, then he's gone in 2-3 years. But that is worst case.

[Guest]

Well you're at least making rationale arguments why you don't like Shanny as a candidate now.

 

Agreed with goony though, 2-3 isn't the "best case"

[rawaction]

Well you're at least making rationale arguments why you don't like Shanny as a candidate now.

 

Agreed with goony though, 2-3 isn't the "best case"

 

Maybe it isn't "best case", but it's a pretty likely scenario. But 2018 Shanahan will be 66 years old. He'd be 4 years older than every coach in the league other than Coughlin who is 67. Coaches don't typically coach at that age.

[Guest]

Well you're at least making rationale arguments why you don't like Shanny as a candidate now.

 

Agreed with goony though, 2-3 isn't the "best case"

 

Maybe it isn't "best case", but it's a pretty likely scenario. But 2018 Shanahan will be 66 years old. He'd be 4 years older than every coach in the league other than Coughlin who is 67. Coaches don't typically coach at that age.

Carroll

[minnesotacubsfan]

I...

 

I don't understand what you were possibly responding to in this discussion. Where I was defending Cutler's performance?

 

Mojo you and Sulley have not just been on the Cutler bandwagon, you two have been dragging it.

 

Somehow anyone who has an alternative viewpoint on Cutler's value get's labeled a meatball, don't lie.

 

 

Dude, you are coming from left field with this

[jersey cubs fan]

Well you're at least making rationale arguments why you don't like Shanny as a candidate now.

 

Agreed with goony though, 2-3 isn't the "best case"

 

Maybe it isn't "best case", but it's a pretty likely scenario. But 2018 Shanahan will be 66 years old. He'd be 4 years older than every coach in the league other than Coughlin who is 67. Coaches don't typically coach at that age.

 

Assuming Belichick and Carroll are also gone?

[rawaction]

Well you're at least making rationale arguments why you don't like Shanny as a candidate now.

 

Agreed with goony though, 2-3 isn't the "best case"

 

Maybe it isn't "best case", but it's a pretty likely scenario. But 2018 Shanahan will be 66 years old. He'd be 4 years older than every coach in the league now other than Coughlin who is 67. Coaches don't typically coach at that age.

Carroll

 

Forgot the word "now". Carroll is the same age as Shanny now (as is Belichick). He's actually a month younger

[jersey cubs fan]

Well you're at least making rationale arguments why you don't like Shanny as a candidate now.

 

Agreed with goony though, 2-3 isn't the "best case"

 

Maybe it isn't "best case", but it's a pretty likely scenario. But 2018 Shanahan will be 66 years old. He'd be 4 years older than every coach in the league now other than Coughlin who is 67. Coaches don't typically coach at that age.

Carroll

 

Forgot the word "now". Carroll is the same age as Shanny now (as is Belichick). He's actually a month younger

 

Shanahan is younger than both of them. We keep repeating this fact.

[Guest]

Well you're at least making rationale arguments why you don't like Shanny as a candidate now.

 

Agreed with goony though, 2-3 isn't the "best case"

 

Maybe it isn't "best case", but it's a pretty likely scenario. But 2018 Shanahan will be 66 years old. He'd be 4 years older than every coach in the league now other than Coughlin who is 67. Coaches don't typically coach at that age.

Carroll

 

Forgot the word "now". Carroll is the same age as Shanny now (as is Belichick). He's actually a month younger

 

I thought you just meant the coaches who are in the league now, not their ages now.

 

Either way, unless you're assuming that two very entrenched and successful coaches will be gone, then their ages are relevant (as in, there will still be a few coaches in the league of around Shanny's age).

[apete6]

Jeff George wishes he put up Jay's numbers.

 

Eh, he had a few good years. The comparison isn't really the problem, it's more that people think George was this horrible QB when he was mostly decent.

 

I guess in that way he's very much like Cutler.

Oh I agree, but Cutler's numbers are absolutely better than George's.

George: 131 games, 57.9% completion percentage, 27,602 yards, 154 TD/113 INT for an 80.4 rating (and 41 fumbles)

 

Cutler: 119 games, 61.7% completion percentage, 27,749 yards, 183 TD/130 INT for an 85.2 rating (and 45 fumbles)

 

If you put Jeff George behind the lines that Jay Cutler has had to work behind, I'm sure those numbers change quite a bit.

 

You do realize that Jeff George was on some completely awful teams, right?

 

Edit: Sacked over 56 times twice in his career and a sack rate of 8.3% : http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GeorJe00.htm

 

Jay sacked 52 times once in his career and a career sack rate of 6.2%. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CutlJa00.htm

[jersey cubs fan]

Either way, unless you're assuming that two very entrenched and successful coaches will be gone, then their ages are relevant (as in, there will still be a few coaches in the league of around Shanny's age).

 

Unless he loses his job soon, Caldwell will also join the 60-plus year old coaches. He is 2.5 years younger than Shanahan and was hired to try and get the most out of a veteran QB with a huge contract, no playoff wins and a sub sub .500 record.

 

 

I'd like to find the guy who will be here for the next 10 years because that probably means he will be pretty good. But being head coach for 10 years doesn't mean you've achieved greatness (see Smith, Lovie or Lewis, Marvin). Relative youth doesn't mean much either. The history of this league is littered with 49 year old failed head coaches.

 

I want the guy who can do the best job the next few years, and I don't see anybody out there who is a slam dunk great candidate.

 

Kubiak would be my preference. Shanahan would be perfectly acceptable.

[sneakypower]

Jeff George wishes he put up Jay's numbers.

 

Eh, he had a few good years. The comparison isn't really the problem, it's more that people think George was this horrible QB when he was mostly decent.

 

I guess in that way he's very much like Cutler.

Oh I agree, but Cutler's numbers are absolutely better than George's.

George: 131 games, 57.9% completion percentage, 27,602 yards, 154 TD/113 INT for an 80.4 rating (and 41 fumbles)

 

Cutler: 119 games, 61.7% completion percentage, 27,749 yards, 183 TD/130 INT for an 85.2 rating (and 45 fumbles)

Right... Cutler is absolutely better.

average QB rating when George broke in the league was in the mid-70s

 

the average QB rating this season was 89.44

[rawaction]

Well you're at least making rationale arguments why you don't like Shanny as a candidate now.

 

Agreed with goony though, 2-3 isn't the "best case"

 

Maybe it isn't "best case", but it's a pretty likely scenario. But 2018 Shanahan will be 66 years old. He'd be 4 years older than every coach in the league now other than Coughlin who is 67. Coaches don't typically coach at that age.

Carroll

 

Forgot the word "now". Carroll is the same age as Shanny now (as is Belichick). He's actually a month younger

 

I thought you just meant the coaches who are in the league now, not their ages now.

 

Either way, unless you're assuming that two very entrenched and successful coaches will be gone, then their ages are relevant (as in, there will still be a few coaches in the league of around Shanny's age).

 

Relevant. But there's not much history of coaches coaching past 65 in the NFL, let alone multiple guys. Its very conceivable that Belichick could go out with Brady in the next couple years. I don't see Carroll coaching 3 more years either.

[rawaction]

Either way, unless you're assuming that two very entrenched and successful coaches will be gone, then their ages are relevant (as in, there will still be a few coaches in the league of around Shanny's age).

 

Unless he loses his job soon, Caldwell will also join the 60-plus year old coaches. He is 2.5 years younger than Shanahan and was hired to try and get the most out of a veteran QB with a huge contract, no playoff wins and a sub sub .500 record.

 

 

I'd like to find the guy who will be here for the next 10 years because that probably means he will be pretty good. But being head coach for 10 years doesn't mean you've achieved greatness (see Smith, Lovie or Lewis, Marvin). Relative youth doesn't mean much either. The history of this league is littered with 49 year old failed head coaches.

 

I want the guy who can do the best job the next few years, and I don't see anybody out there who is a slam dunk great candidate.

 

Kubiak would be my preference. Shanahan would be perfectly acceptable.

 

Honestly I know where u are coming from. But Caldwell is younger and recently had success unlike Shanahan.

[Guest]

Either way, unless you're assuming that two very entrenched and successful coaches will be gone, then their ages are relevant (as in, there will still be a few coaches in the league of around Shanny's age).

 

Unless he loses his job soon, Caldwell will also join the 60-plus year old coaches. He is 2.5 years younger than Shanahan and was hired to try and get the most out of a veteran QB with a huge contract, no playoff wins and a sub sub .500 record.

 

 

I'd like to find the guy who will be here for the next 10 years because that probably means he will be pretty good. But being head coach for 10 years doesn't mean you've achieved greatness (see Smith, Lovie or Lewis, Marvin). Relative youth doesn't mean much either. The history of this league is littered with 49 year old failed head coaches.

 

I want the guy who can do the best job the next few years, and I don't see anybody out there who is a slam dunk great candidate.

 

Kubiak would be my preference. Shanahan would be perfectly acceptable.

 

Honestly I know where u are coming from. But Caldwell is younger and recently had success unlike Shanahan.

 

Shanahan just had success, what, 2 years ago?

[jersey cubs fan]

Relevant. But there's not much history of coaches coaching past 65 in the NFL, let alone multiple guys. Its very conceivable that Belichick could go out with Brady in the next couple years. I don't see Carroll coaching 3 more years either.

 

There isn't a huge list, but it is hardly unprecedented. And 65 in 2018 isn't the same thing as 65 in 1978.