2014 Chicago Bears Offseason Thread

[Banedon]

You are treating him like a pitcher, acting as though a broken thumb somehow led to a strained groin.

 

You don't have to draw a straight line between the two injuries for it to be illustrative of the point. "Injuries beget injuries" means not only that you can hurt yourself compensating for one injury, but also that injuries(and especially 2nd and 3rd injuries like Cutler has already sustained) happen to players who (for whatever reason) are more prone to injuries.

 

That makes no sense at all. Because he broke his thumb he's more prone to a groin injury? It's silly and unrelated.

 

The groin and ankle...that makes sense. They were close together and could reasonably argued that there's a relation.

[Guest]

You are treating him like a pitcher, acting as though a broken thumb somehow led to a strained groin.

 

You don't have to draw a straight line between the two injuries for it to be illustrative of the point. "Injuries beget injuries" means not only that you can hurt yourself compensating for one injury, but also that injuries(and especially 2nd and 3rd injuries like Cutler has already sustained) happen to players who (for whatever reason) are more prone to injuries.

 

again, the injuries he sustained this year were related. the other 9+ games he has missed over the last few years were from unrelated traumatic injuries.

[Soul]

5 straight years of pretty much injury-free football (2006-2010) kind of blows up that logic, TT.

 

You appear to be arguing that he's become more injury prone because he crossed the 30 line, as if he's a WR or something. You aren't making much sense right now to me.

[jersey cubs fan]

You are treating him like a pitcher, acting as though a broken thumb somehow led to a strained groin.

 

You don't have to draw a straight line between the two injuries for it to be illustrative of the point. "Injuries beget injuries" means not only that you can hurt yourself compensating for one injury, but also that injuries(and especially 2nd and 3rd injuries like Cutler has already sustained) happen to players who (for whatever reason) are more prone to injuries.

 

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

 

It is absolutely unfair and ridiculous to only talk about his health since he broke his thumb but ignore what happened before that. Your theory is wrong and the only support is that if you pick out a guy with multiple injuries that will, by definition, "support" the idea that one injury somehow led to another. Injuries do not beget injuries.

 

Tom Brady missed a whole season with an extremely damaging leg injury that has not led another injury. Drew Brees injured his shoulder early in his career and hasn't led to anything since. Payton Manning broke his neck, missed a season and has played 32 of 32 games since. Their injuries did not beget injuries because injuries do not beget injuries. That's some old wive's tale nonsense right there. If you were talking about running backs you would have something to talk about. If you were talking about a running QB who got himself hit, and thus injured by those hits, you'd have something to talk about.

[Guest]

You are treating him like a pitcher, acting as though a broken thumb somehow led to a strained groin.

 

You don't have to draw a straight line between the two injuries for it to be illustrative of the point. "Injuries beget injuries" means not only that you can hurt yourself compensating for one injury, but also that injuries(and especially 2nd and 3rd injuries like Cutler has already sustained) happen to players who (for whatever reason) are more prone to injuries.

 

That makes no sense at all. Because he broke his thumb he's more prone to a groin injury? It's silly and unrelated.

 

The groin and ankle...that makes sense. They were close together and could reasonably argued that there's a relation.

 

No, he's more prone to a groin injury because he's Jay Cutler. Breaking his thumb opens us up to the idea that Jay Cutler is more prone to injuries than his previous performance('07-'10) would have indicated, and having multiple injuries in the years that follow corroborate the idea.

 

again, the injuries he sustained this year were related. the other 9+ games he has missed over the last few years were from unrelated traumatic injuries.

 

What I'm getting at is that "guy who suffers multiple unrelated injuries" is just as indicative of future injury as the guy who hurts his groin then hurts his ankle by overcompensating, just for slightly different reasons.

[jersey cubs fan]

No, he's more prone to a groin injury because he's Jay Cutler. Breaking his thumb opens us up to the idea that Jay Cutler is more prone to injuries than his previous performance('07-'10) would have indicated, and having multiple injuries in the years that follow corroborate the idea.

 

You should probably stop talking.

 

 

This is straight up idiotic nonsense.

[Banedon]

What I'm getting at is that "guy who suffers multiple unrelated injuries" is just as indicative of future injury as the guy who hurts his groin then hurts his ankle by overcompensating, just for slightly different reasons.

 

We get that's what you're trying to say, but it's not true, so that's the problem.

[davell]

You are treating him like a pitcher, acting as though a broken thumb somehow led to a strained groin.

 

You don't have to draw a straight line between the two injuries for it to be illustrative of the point. "Injuries beget injuries" means not only that you can hurt yourself compensating for one injury, but also that injuries(and especially 2nd and 3rd injuries like Cutler has already sustained) happen to players who (for whatever reason) are more prone to injuries.

 

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

 

It is absolutely unfair and ridiculous to only talk about his health since he broke his thumb but ignore what happened before that. Your theory is wrong and the only support is that if you pick out a guy with multiple injuries that will, by definition, "support" the idea that one injury somehow led to another. Injuries do not beget injuries.

 

Tom Brady missed a whole season with an extremely damaging leg injury that has not led another injury. Drew Brees injured his shoulder early in his career and hasn't led to anything since. Payton Manning broke his neck, missed a season and has played 32 of 32 games since. Their injuries did not beget injuries because injuries do not beget injuries. That's some old wive's tale nonsense right there. If you were talking about running backs you would have something to talk about. If you were talking about a running QB who got himself hit, and thus injured by those hits, you'd have something to talk about.

FTW

[Sammy Sofa]

You are treating him like a pitcher, acting as though a broken thumb somehow led to a strained groin.

 

You don't have to draw a straight line between the two injuries for it to be illustrative of the point. "Injuries beget injuries" means not only that you can hurt yourself compensating for one injury, but also that injuries(and especially 2nd and 3rd injuries like Cutler has already sustained) happen to players who (for whatever reason) are more prone to injuries.

 

That makes no sense at all. Because he broke his thumb he's more prone to a groin injury? It's silly and unrelated.

 

The groin and ankle...that makes sense. They were close together and could reasonably argued that there's a relation.

 

No, he's more prone to a groin injury because he's Jay Cutler. Breaking his thumb opens us up to the idea that Jay Cutler is more prone to injuries than his previous performance('07-'10) would have indicated, and having multiple injuries in the years that follow corroborate the idea.

 

again, the injuries he sustained this year were related. the other 9+ games he has missed over the last few years were from unrelated traumatic injuries.

 

What I'm getting at is that "guy who suffers multiple unrelated injuries" is just as indicative of future injury as the guy who hurts his groin then hurts his ankle by overcompensating, just for slightly different reasons.

 

I don't think you can generalize something as broad as "susceptible to injuries" without breaking down the circumstances of the injuries.

 

Like people have said, I get being concerned about the relation of the groin and ankle injuries, but would you be saying the same thing if the reasons he had missed time had all been along the lines of the thumb?

[Cubswin11]

The thumb bone is connected to the groin muscle which is connected to the ankle bone which is connected to the knee and all are attached to TWTW.

[Guest]

 

What I'm getting at is that "guy who suffers multiple unrelated injuries" is just as indicative of future injury as the guy who hurts his groin then hurts his ankle by overcompensating, just for slightly different reasons.

 

i don't get how this is at all true. maybe this is over my head or i'm not getting something that's as plain as day. the traumatic injuries that he received were from his head being struck or from his hand becoming entangled and twisted, both upper-body injuries that have little to do with a pattern of wear and tear.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, to be fair, it's not like concussions just happen in a vacuum; he's had them several times over the years, yes?

[Guest]

Wow, go to the gym and get out and Jay, Tim Jennings and Slauson are back. Fantastic.

 

Told you

 

Heh, fair enough. Should have had more faith in Emery and Trestman.

[Soul]

 

What I'm getting at is that "guy who suffers multiple unrelated injuries" is just as indicative of future injury as the guy who hurts his groin then hurts his ankle by overcompensating, just for slightly different reasons.

 

i don't get how this is at all true. maybe this is over my head or i'm not getting something that's as plain as day. the traumatic injuries that he received were from his head being struck or from his hand becoming entangled and twisted, both upper-body injuries that have little to do with a pattern of wear and tear.

 

I think he's essentially saying that Cutler is like a mini-McMahon. Takes too many chances, gets himself into trouble too much.

 

I would have thought that his first several years of football would dispel that notion, but he's countering with the idea that those were just lucky years.

 

Again -- I don't agree with it, but that's what it sounds like to me.

 

So he'll be injured more because he'll stick himself into trouble too much.

[Wilson A2000]

Well, to be fair, it's not like concussions just happen in a vacuum; he's had them several times over the years, yes?

 

6 according to this article: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/66590/sixth-concussion-in-jay-cutlers-career

[Guest]

I don't think you can generalize something as broad as "susceptible to injuries" without breaking down the circumstances of the injuries.

 

Like people have said, I get being concerned about the relation of the groin and ankle injuries, but would you be saying the same thing if the reasons he had missed time had all been along the lines of the thumb?

 

Yes. I'm not even saying anything definitive about Cutler, only that it's something that has to be considered when making such a huge commitment. Cutler's had at least 3 different injuries in the last 3 years that have caused him to miss games. There's a point where reasonable people can agree that a player is "injury prone" or more likely to miss time with injury, be it from re-aggravating past injuries, bad genetics, external factors like teammates/coaching(e.g. crappy OL and 7 step drops), etc. Reasonable people can disagree on what that point is and if Cutler is at that point, which is why I found the response to UK a bit much. Too many of the responses are focused on this one track that if you can't physically draw a line between two injuries, that there's no possible way they're illustrative or predictive of anything. I'm not saying definitively they are, but rather that you can't say they're not because of what all has transpired with Cutler the last few years.

[WrigleyField 22]

Well, to be fair, it's not like concussions just happen in a vacuum; he's had them several times over the years, yes?

This is probably the only injury thing to be worried about. But still, NFL contracts are rarely cap killers and we're supposed to have like a cap genius so I'm sure it's structured where we can cut Jay in a few years due to injury or performance and not effect our cap too much.

[Guest]

Well, to be fair, it's not like concussions just happen in a vacuum; he's had them several times over the years, yes?

 

he missed a game after the Giant game because the line couldn't protect him. He missed a game after getting a cheap-shot from a Texan player on a busted play. I think those are the only concussion games.

[Guest]

Well, to be fair, it's not like concussions just happen in a vacuum; he's had them several times over the years, yes?

 

6 according to this article: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/66590/sixth-concussion-in-jay-cutlers-career

 

you must be devastated today

Edited January 2, 2014 by Stannis

[Wilson A2000]

 

What I'm getting at is that "guy who suffers multiple unrelated injuries" is just as indicative of future injury as the guy who hurts his groin then hurts his ankle by overcompensating, just for slightly different reasons.

 

i don't get how this is at all true. maybe this is over my head or i'm not getting something that's as plain as day. the traumatic injuries that he received were from his head being struck or from his hand becoming entangled and twisted, both upper-body injuries that have little to do with a pattern of wear and tear.

 

I think he's essentially saying that Cutler is like a mini-McMahon. Takes too many chances, gets himself into trouble too much.

 

I would have thought that his first several years of football would dispel that notion, but he's countering with the idea that those were just lucky years.

 

Again -- I don't agree with it, but that's what it sounds like to me.

 

So he'll be injured more because he'll stick himself into trouble too much.

 

I've seen times this year where Cutler could have thrown a block on a reverse and he chose not to. I think there was a pick-6 where he really didn't make much of an effort to tackle the guy with the ball. Maybe the Knox-int-broken thumb play knocked some sense into him and Jay realized it's not worth it. With that said, Cutler finished the first half when he had the high-ankle sprain. He doesn't like to take himself out of games.

[Soul]

Also, concussions are just a huge concern with any player. So every team is concerned about that when they spend big money on a QB, or any other player. It's something that is always taken into consideration.

 

I'm much less concerned about it with Cutler now, because I know that the team finally has a commitment to protecting him on the field. But it's always going to be something that can happen, any time.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't think you can generalize something as broad as "susceptible to injuries" without breaking down the circumstances of the injuries.

 

Like people have said, I get being concerned about the relation of the groin and ankle injuries, but would you be saying the same thing if the reasons he had missed time had all been along the lines of the thumb?

 

Yes. I'm not even saying anything definitive about Cutler, only that it's something that has to be considered when making such a huge commitment. Cutler's had at least 3 different injuries in the last 3 years that have caused him to miss games. There's a point where reasonable people can agree that a player is "injury prone" or more likely to miss time with injury, be it from re-aggravating past injuries, bad genetics, external factors like teammates/coaching(e.g. crappy OL and 7 step drops), etc. Reasonable people can disagree on what that point is and if Cutler is at that point, which is why I found the response to UK a bit much. Too many of the responses are focused on this one track that if you can't physically draw a line between two injuries, that there's no possible way they're illustrative or predictive of anything. I'm not saying definitively they are, but rather that you can't say they're not because of what all has transpired with Cutler the last few years.

 

This just seems like a pretty flimsy theory seemingly being pushed just because of the bold part.

[Wilson A2000]

Well, to be fair, it's not like concussions just happen in a vacuum; he's had them several times over the years, yes?

 

6 according to this article: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/66590/sixth-concussion-in-jay-cutlers-career

 

you must be devastated today

 

For what reason? I've wanted Cutler signed to a new deal.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Wilson A2000

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, to be fair, it's not like concussions just happen in a vacuum; he's had them several times over the years, yes?

 

he missed a game after the Giant game because the line couldn't protect him. He missed a game after getting a cheap-shot from a Texan player on a busted play. I think those are the only concussion games.

 

Well, I was talking throughout his playing days, not just in the NFL. Not that it's an argument against signing him.

[WrigleyField 22]

Well, to be fair, it's not like concussions just happen in a vacuum; he's had them several times over the years, yes?

 

he missed a game after the Giant game because the line couldn't protect him. He missed a game after getting a cheap-shot from a Texan player on a busted play. I think those are the only concussion games.

But if there was an injury that actually begot injuries, it's concussions over most. I don't think it's a huge deal, but hopefully for that and several other reasons it's structured to be easy to walk away from.