Week 17

[sneakypower]

alright, so i'd been on vacation with no coverage for the last week+ and i'm catching up on things, and ho. ly. [expletive]...are the trades like this every year in this league?

 

the top two teams have added via trade:

 

Troy Tulowitzki

Robinson Cano

Felix Hernandez

Hanley Ramirez

Alex Rios

Nick Markakis

Joe Nathan

Ian Kinsler

 

just about every guy there is top-5 positionally or even elite and as far as i can tell, the single best player given up is probably a broken Matt Cain, or maybe Javy Baez's hopes & dreams

 

if this has been a regular occurrence in the past that others have come to accept, then i guess that's that, but i can't find much intrigue in the winner being dictated purely on whomever can bludgeon the doormats of the league (or personal friends who don't care to check their teams except to donate their few remaining studs) to foolishly submit to their constant ridiculous low-ball offers

 

please don't read into this as some kind of a dramatic threat to leave, or that i'm hopping mad over fantasy bb...i'm just filling out a comment card- i can't see this league being all that interesting if this becomes common practice

[bukie]

*kicks sand*

[bukie]

Tim generally does a lot of trading, though, yes.

 

The potential trick there is that neither of the teams could possibly keep even half of that over the next year, so they'll be offloading them at the end of the year for whatever they can get. The key here is not giving up as much after the year as they give up in midseason.

 

Also, on an unrelated note, I may be looking to upgrade 2B or 3B, and have a spare SS and some incumbent exempt players to offer in return.

[Guest]

alright, so i'd been on vacation with no coverage for the last week+ and i'm catching up on things, and ho. ly. [expletive]...are the trades like this every year in this league?

 

the top two teams have added via trade:

 

Troy Tulowitzki

Robinson Cano

Felix Hernandez

Hanley Ramirez

Alex Rios

Nick Markakis

Joe Nathan

Ian Kinsler

 

just about every guy there is top-5 positionally or even elite and as far as i can tell, the single best player given up is probably a broken Matt Cain, or maybe Javy Baez's hopes & dreams

 

if this has been a regular occurrence in the past that others have come to accept, then i guess that's that, but i can't find much intrigue in the winner being dictated purely on whomever can bludgeon the doormats of the league (or personal friends who don't care to check their teams except to donate their few remaining studs) to foolishly submit to their constant ridiculous low-ball offers

 

please don't read into this as some kind of a dramatic threat to leave, or that i'm hopping mad over fantasy bb...i'm just filling out a comment card- i can't see this league being all that interesting if this becomes common practice

I'll just speak to my trades:

Braun + Tulo for Hosmer, Baez, Bauer, Springer + Feliz

Hosmer has outscored Braun + Tulo on his own and is still exempt. Add Baez, Bauer and Springer and I'm not sure how you can say Chuck didn't get value for a half season of Tulo and about five total games of Braun.

 

Cano for Uggla, Braun, Duffy

Uggla is sixth or seventh in points at 2B, Braun is a fabulous keeper for next year at this point and Duffy has great potential as he regains command from TJS (the stuff is clearly there). Getting a one great keeper and another decent one, plus a decent replacement for the rest of the year seems to be very good value for half a season of Cano.

 

Admittedly, I'm working Braun's value both ways here, but that's based on the timing of the two trades.

 

A big part to winning in the league is stockpiling assets to trade if you're in contention.

[bukie]

Hosmer isn't on Chuck's team anymore, either.

[sneakypower]

I'll just speak to my trades:

Braun + Tulo for Hosmer, Baez, Bauer, Springer + Feliz

Hosmer has outscored Braun + Tulo on his own and is still exempt. Add Baez, Bauer and Springer and I'm not sure how you can say Chuck didn't get value for a half season of Tulo and about five total games of Braun.

it's a keeper league and HBC doesn't have a single better keeper than either Braun/Tulo

 

i'm not really interested in doing a line-by-line breakdown of the absurdity of each one of these trades, and if you're unwilling to exhibit any intellectual honesty (see bolded above) then this isn't even a conversation worth having

[Guest]

I'll just speak to my trades:

Braun + Tulo for Hosmer, Baez, Bauer, Springer + Feliz

Hosmer has outscored Braun + Tulo on his own and is still exempt. Add Baez, Bauer and Springer and I'm not sure how you can say Chuck didn't get value for a half season of Tulo and about five total games of Braun.

it's a keeper league and HBC doesn't have a single better keeper than either Braun/Tulo

 

i'm not really interested in doing a line-by-line breakdown of the absurdity of each one of these trades, and if you're unwilling to exhibit any intellectual honesty (see bolded above) then this isn't even a conversation worth having

I had such dishonesty that I highlighted the fact I was playing braun's value both ways in my post.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'll only defend myself to say I don't think I have any close personal friends in the league. I live in the same metropolitan area as the owner of the Owls and I've met him twice in 2 years, and just once before he traded me Kinsler the first week of the season. He's a good guy, but he isn't someone I talk or text with regularly. He didn't trade me Kinsler b/c he was giving up on his team or b/c he was doing me a favor. It was the first week of the season. Cozart and Kinsler has scored roughly the same amount of points this year, so I'm not sure that's been such a huge advantage. Kinsler is the only guy on that list I added before this week (which I lost) and I've had the best record since week 4, so obviously my trades haven't had a great deal of impact up to now.

 

I don't know what the beef is with the other trades I've made. It's not like I was the only guy gunning for King Felix or Hanley. Also, SP traded away Braun (pre-suspension) for Gausman (who wasted an exemption and is now getting his ass beat in AAA) in a move lots of people openly questioned. Chuck defended the trade with: "he made the offer," which was to say, "I didn't lowball him; he lowballed himself." So it seems that one can evaluate players differently than others.

 

I've only been in the league 2 years and only read back through some trades from 2011 when I first started to get a sense of player value, so I don't know how common mid-year trades are. But this a keeper league where non-keepers are of little value to teams outside the playoff picture in August and September. So I don't see why the market for a 4th-round OF like Alex Rios would be that high, for example. In October, I'll drop him for nothing.

 

I've been on both sides of these trades in my 2 years as I was selling off everything last year (I traded Phil Hughes for a prospect pick last July - PHIL HUGHES). I enjoy it b/c it gives teams that are out of it something to do midseason and allows them to turn it around more quickly by adding cheap assets. It also gives contending teams a choice to mortgage the future and go for it now or keep their prospects and exempt players. I can understand if it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I don't think it's surprising that there's an active trade market in late July.

 

fyi, my team when I took over in 2012. If this ain't some [expletive], I don't know what is. I'd contend that active trading is significantly better than letting managers get their teams to this point.

 

Martin, Russell C NYY

Huff, Aubrey 1B SF

Johnson, Kelly 2B TOR

McGehee, Casey 3B MIL

Aybar, Erick SS ANA

Francoeur, Jeff RF KC

Gardner, Brett CF NYY

Hamilton, Josh CF TEX

Crisp, Coco CF OAK

Collmenter, Josh SP ARI

Davis, Wade SP TB

Harrison, Matt RP TEX

Hudson, Tim SP ATL

Norris, Bud SP HOU

Adams, Mike RP TEX

Rivera, Mariano RP NYY

Guerrero, Vladimir DH BAL

Duensing, Brian RP MIN

Karstens, Jeff SP PIT

Castro, Jason C HOU

Morales, Kendrys 1B ANA

Conger, Hank C ANA

Romine, Austin C NYY

Anderson, Lars 1B BOS

Green, Grant SS OAK

Mier, Jiovanni SS HOU

Villar, Jonathan SS HOU

Jackson, Brett CF CHC

Brown, Domonic RF PHI

Alderson, Tim SP PIT

Chatwood, Tyler SP ANA

[bukie]

Also, my team gets zero respect. :P

[Tracer Bullet]

Also, my team gets zero respect. :P

 

SP apparently feels your trade was "fair"

[cbbryan]

I don't have anyone better than Tulo/Braun on my roster? I have Harper who won't cost me a single point to keep at seasons end. There's a real value to exempt players in this format, and as someone mentioned earlier the owners in the race will have to flip guys they can't keep. Very rarely do they get great value because everyone knows they have to trade away points.

[sneakypower]

i had meant non-exempt keepers, sorry

[abuck1220]

the problem is, tim (or whoever...but let's be honest, tim) won't be able to keep these guys he gets mid season, so he dumps them on some dumb sucker at the end of the year for draft picks, making the risks on these kinds of trades basically nothing.

 

this league is kind of a bummer right now.

[Tracer Bullet]

It is sort of a bummer when you lose nearly every week your first year bc you took on a [expletive] team but nonetheless have a legal lineup every day and get called out for not trying to win then do a total 180 your second year and get called out again.

[Quakers]

alright, so i'd been on vacation with no coverage for the last week+ and i'm catching up on things, and ho. ly. [expletive]...are the trades like this every year in this league?

 

the top two teams have added via trade:

 

Troy Tulowitzki

Robinson Cano

Felix Hernandez

Hanley Ramirez

Alex Rios

Nick Markakis

Joe Nathan

Ian Kinsler

 

just about every guy there is top-5 positionally or even elite and as far as i can tell, the single best player given up is probably a broken Matt Cain, or maybe Javy Baez's hopes & dreams

 

if this has been a regular occurrence in the past that others have come to accept, then i guess that's that, but i can't find much intrigue in the winner being dictated purely on whomever can bludgeon the doormats of the league (or personal friends who don't care to check their teams except to donate their few remaining studs) to foolishly submit to their constant ridiculous low-ball offers

 

please don't read into this as some kind of a dramatic threat to leave, or that i'm hopping mad over fantasy bb...i'm just filling out a comment card- i can't see this league being all that interesting if this becomes common practice

 

Well I seem to have made two bad trades, but here is my defense.

 

I was going to lose Cano and Rameriz at the end of the season anyways, due to our keeper limit. By getting Braun and Teix I have two cheap keepers. What screwed me this year was a lack of pitching. Hultzen is a top prospect and I should be able to keep Duffy.

 

So on paper this deal looks bad, with our keeper rules and me being out of contention, these trades were doable. I was going to lose these two players anyways. I offered them for several weeks on the trade page. These were the best two deals offered (actually the only deals offered). My team should be better at the start of next year than it would have been otherwise. Shoot, with luck and a low draft pick, I may be able to pick up Cano or Rameriz again in the first round.

[Quakers]

After the trades my keepers should be

 

C- Mauer

1b - Votto

3b - Arenado

OF - McCutchen

OF - Puig

OF - Braun

DH - Teix

SP - Iwakuma

SP - Harrison

 

There are several choices for the 10th spot. Hart, Duffy, Montero, maybe Chapman, ....

 

I still will be weak in pitching, but my offense has the potential to be good.

[Guest]

alright, so i'd been on vacation with no coverage for the last week+ and i'm catching up on things, and ho. ly. [expletive]...are the trades like this every year in this league?

 

the top two teams have added via trade:

 

Troy Tulowitzki

Robinson Cano

Felix Hernandez

Hanley Ramirez

Alex Rios

Nick Markakis

Joe Nathan

Ian Kinsler

 

just about every guy there is top-5 positionally or even elite and as far as i can tell, the single best player given up is probably a broken Matt Cain, or maybe Javy Baez's hopes & dreams

 

if this has been a regular occurrence in the past that others have come to accept, then i guess that's that, but i can't find much intrigue in the winner being dictated purely on whomever can bludgeon the doormats of the league (or personal friends who don't care to check their teams except to donate their few remaining studs) to foolishly submit to their constant ridiculous low-ball offers

 

please don't read into this as some kind of a dramatic threat to leave, or that i'm hopping mad over fantasy bb...i'm just filling out a comment card- i can't see this league being all that interesting if this becomes common practice

 

Well I seem to have made two bad trades, but here is my defense.

 

I was going to lose Cano and Rameriz at the end of the season anyways, due to our keeper limit. By getting Braun and Teix I have two cheap keepers. What screwed me this year was a lack of pitching. Hultzen is a top prospect and I should be able to keep Duffy.

 

So on paper this deal looks bad, with our keeper rules and me being out of contention, these trades were doable. I was going to lose these two players anyways. I offered them for several weeks on the trade page. These were the best two deals offered (actually the only deals offered). My team should be better at the start of next year than it would have been otherwise. Shoot, with luck and a low draft pick, I may be able to pick up Cano or Rameriz again in the first round.

 

I'm not sure if you did but you really should mention on here if you're trying to trade players, not just the CBS website.

[Quakers]

alright, so i'd been on vacation with no coverage for the last week+ and i'm catching up on things, and ho. ly. [expletive]...are the trades like this every year in this league?

 

the top two teams have added via trade:

 

Troy Tulowitzki

Robinson Cano

Felix Hernandez

Hanley Ramirez

Alex Rios

Nick Markakis

Joe Nathan

Ian Kinsler

 

just about every guy there is top-5 positionally or even elite and as far as i can tell, the single best player given up is probably a broken Matt Cain, or maybe Javy Baez's hopes & dreams

 

if this has been a regular occurrence in the past that others have come to accept, then i guess that's that, but i can't find much intrigue in the winner being dictated purely on whomever can bludgeon the doormats of the league (or personal friends who don't care to check their teams except to donate their few remaining studs) to foolishly submit to their constant ridiculous low-ball offers

 

please don't read into this as some kind of a dramatic threat to leave, or that i'm hopping mad over fantasy bb...i'm just filling out a comment card- i can't see this league being all that interesting if this becomes common practice

 

Well I seem to have made two bad trades, but here is my defense.

 

I was going to lose Cano and Rameriz at the end of the season anyways, due to our keeper limit. By getting Braun and Teix I have two cheap keepers. What screwed me this year was a lack of pitching. Hultzen is a top prospect and I should be able to keep Duffy.

 

So on paper this deal looks bad, with our keeper rules and me being out of contention, these trades were doable. I was going to lose these two players anyways. I offered them for several weeks on the trade page. These were the best two deals offered (actually the only deals offered). My team should be better at the start of next year than it would have been otherwise. Shoot, with luck and a low draft pick, I may be able to pick up Cano or Rameriz again in the first round.

 

I'm not sure if you did but you really should mention on here if you're trying to trade players, not just the CBS website.

 

 

Doesn't On-the-Block send an e-mail to each of the owners in the league? I may be wrong, but I assumed that everyone reads their e-mails.

[abuck1220]

Shoot, with luck and a low draft pick, I may be able to pick up Cano or Rameriz again in the first round.

 

those guys (or at least cano) won't be available in the draft.

 

there needs to be a cap on the number of points traded in the offseason so people can't dump a million keepers and recover a bunch of draft picks. might put it in this year.

 

in case people haven't noticed, the rich only get richer under the current system. a contending team trades draft picks/prospects for big league stars. because they are now stocked with a team of stars, they obviously can't keep them all. so they trade them in the post-season for draft picks/prospects (you know, similar to the ones they gave up to get the stars in the first place). thus, the person that obtained the stars midseason lost nothing to rent a star for two months. then, in addition to the remaining stars they do have room to keep, they can supplement their team with the draft picks they traded for and they're awesome again the next year.

 

it seems weird that i have to spell this out, but people seem to have a hard time realizing this is what goes on.

[Guest]

Yet this is the same system that allows owners like MR and Bukie go from worst to first in short periods of time.

 

The perception is that I'm the one that uses/abuses this system the most. So any argument I make will seem to be merely selfishly protecting a system in which I've done well. I'd like to hear from the other owners. Adam's view and my view are pretty well established at this point.

[Tracer Bullet]

Maybe that's what's happened in the past, I really don't know. Based on the end of season standings available at cbs, that maybe that isn't true. The 3 worst teams last season: Calvinball, NSBB, Theocracy. The three best teams right now: Calvinball, Theocracy, NSBB. The worst team at the end of 2011 was truffle. He's been in the hunt the last two years. Bazingas had the best record last year, had to sell off some keepers and had some bad luck, now he has one of the worst teams.

 

I do remember reading about Tim trading for Halladay one year and then trading him to truffle after the year for a top pick or something, but I can tell you that the market for the #1 draft pick was not high last year. I think teams are realizing that the difference between the top 5-7 picks isn't that important unless there's a FA like Darvish that's a clear #1 pick.

 

I honestly think that replacing managers before they're allowed to destroy their own teams like NCCF and Karen did is the bigger issue. The reason I was trading away my entire team last year, and the reason Owls should be doing that this year (and I'm assuming the reason truffle did it when he took over) is because the team was so terrible, there was no point in competing with the crap you have on your roster. Teams start to lose interest, stop paying any attention and making horrible trades (like Cy Young Lincecum for former prospect Dom Brown, too bad sneaky wasn't around for that one) and by the end of the year, they walk away and leave their team in shambles.

 

Maybe a cap on the points you can trade would work. That might give teams an incentive to trade for the #1 pick if a great player is made available due to the cap. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[abuck1220]

maybe people have wised up to the "trading draft picks for guys that aren't going to be kept anyway" scheme.

 

i just think it's [expletive] dumb that you can essentially trade guys you don't technically own. it'd be like the cubs trading garza after this season when his contract was up.

[abuck1220]

i also think the worst to first turnarounds are more due to the old owners being terrible/extra lazy and the new owners being extra diligent. obviously effort and time devotion is like 85% of succeeding in fantasy baseball.

[bukie]

maybe people have wised up to the "trading draft picks for guys that aren't going to be kept anyway" scheme.

 

i just think it's [expletive] dumb that you can essentially trade guys you don't technically own. it'd be like the cubs trading garza after this season when his contract was up.

Maybe it would make sense to only allow trades after keepers are set.

[Guest]

maybe people have wised up to the "trading draft picks for guys that aren't going to be kept anyway" scheme.

 

i just think it's [expletive] dumb that you can essentially trade guys you don't technically own. it'd be like the cubs trading garza after this season when his contract was up.

Maybe it would make sense to only allow trades after keepers are set.

How would that make any sense for the people that can take on points and are receiving the star players? I've also made trades for guys in specific point ranges in the past so that I could squeak under the 2000 point limit.

 

I'll still contend that there's no quicker way for bad teams to get star players than to clear their team of points at the deadline, then trade pennies on the dollar during the offseason to take on the points of the star players.

 

Let's look at this from the point of view of the bad teams instead of the good ones. If they're not allowed to make trades for good players after the season, they are going to head into the draft with the same lousy team they ended the year with. Sure, the draft will be a bit deeper, but they only have one of every sixteen picks. It actually makes it MORE likely that rich teams will be able to pick up the good players they had to cast off the previous year instead of having them be distributed to the teams in need.