Week 17

[bukie]

maybe people have wised up to the "trading draft picks for guys that aren't going to be kept anyway" scheme.

 

i just think it's [expletive] dumb that you can essentially trade guys you don't technically own. it'd be like the cubs trading garza after this season when his contract was up.

Maybe it would make sense to only allow trades after keepers are set.

How would that make any sense for the people that can take on points and are receiving the star players? I've also made trades for guys in specific point ranges in the past so that I could squeak under the 2000 point limit.

 

I'll still contend that there's no quicker way for bad teams to get star players than to clear their team of points at the deadline, then trade pennies on the dollar during the offseason to take on the points of the star players.

 

Let's look at this from the point of view of the bad teams instead of the good ones. If they're not allowed to make trades for good players after the season, they are going to head into the draft with the same lousy team they ended the year with. Sure, the draft will be a bit deeper, but they only have one of every sixteen picks. It actually makes it MORE likely that rich teams will be able to pick up the good players they had to cast off the previous year instead of having them be distributed to the teams in need.

Which works as long as the owners actually do trade for pennies on the dollar instead of dollars on the dollar.

[Guest]

alright, so i'd been on vacation with no coverage for the last week+ and i'm catching up on things, and ho. ly. [expletive]...are the trades like this every year in this league?

 

the top two teams have added via trade:

 

Troy Tulowitzki

Robinson Cano

Felix Hernandez

Hanley Ramirez

Alex Rios

Nick Markakis

Joe Nathan

Ian Kinsler

 

just about every guy there is top-5 positionally or even elite and as far as i can tell, the single best player given up is probably a broken Matt Cain, or maybe Javy Baez's hopes & dreams

 

if this has been a regular occurrence in the past that others have come to accept, then i guess that's that, but i can't find much intrigue in the winner being dictated purely on whomever can bludgeon the doormats of the league (or personal friends who don't care to check their teams except to donate their few remaining studs) to foolishly submit to their constant ridiculous low-ball offers

 

please don't read into this as some kind of a dramatic threat to leave, or that i'm hopping mad over fantasy bb...i'm just filling out a comment card- i can't see this league being all that interesting if this becomes common practice

 

Well I seem to have made two bad trades, but here is my defense.

 

I was going to lose Cano and Rameriz at the end of the season anyways, due to our keeper limit. By getting Braun and Teix I have two cheap keepers. What screwed me this year was a lack of pitching. Hultzen is a top prospect and I should be able to keep Duffy.

 

So on paper this deal looks bad, with our keeper rules and me being out of contention, these trades were doable. I was going to lose these two players anyways. I offered them for several weeks on the trade page. These were the best two deals offered (actually the only deals offered). My team should be better at the start of next year than it would have been otherwise. Shoot, with luck and a low draft pick, I may be able to pick up Cano or Rameriz again in the first round.

 

I'm not sure if you did but you really should mention on here if you're trying to trade players, not just the CBS website.

 

 

Doesn't On-the-Block send an e-mail to each of the owners in the league? I may be wrong, but I assumed that everyone reads their e-mails.

 

I get them but sometimes I'm in a rush and delete or forget about them while on the smart phone. You're only helping yourself if you add a reinforcing post on here.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'll start by saying none of my trades would have changed with the rules being discussed. I'm planning to keep Felix, Ramirez and kinsler if at all possible. I never planned to keep such elite studs as Nathan, Rios and Markakis. I told each manager when trading that I wasn't looking for keepers and so I wasn't offering elite prospects.

 

But I wonder what ills we're trying to cure. Do we want fewer trades during the year? Stopping trades after the season isn't going to get you there. If I am out of it and I'm holding more points than I can keep (projected obviously) then why wouldn't I trade those points to good teams during the season? At least I can get something for them. Even if my team is so bad that I'd have to keep Rios, I might prefer to trade him for a prospect or exempt keeper and draft him again in the 4th.

 

Or do we want fewer trades in the off-season? The rule will accomplish that. But it won't help balance the teams any. Speaking from experience, last year I added 3 SP and a C with an exemption left by trading picks in lower rounds than those players would have ever gone in the draft. I could do that bc I had only 1 viable keeper and traded the rest away during the prior season. That's not the only way to build a better team and I obviously had luck (good and bad - if Teix doesn't get hurt in ST, I don't draft Davis). But it's a logical way and has worked for several teams lately.

 

But as abuck said, effort is the biggest part of building a good team. Effort and luck, I think. So getting managers to be involved and stay involved is more important than trying to stop teams from trading to get better. At least, that's my perspective.

[Tracer Bullet]

maybe people have wised up to the "trading draft picks for guys that aren't going to be kept anyway" scheme.

 

i just think it's [expletive] dumb that you can essentially trade guys you don't technically own. it'd be like the cubs trading garza after this season when his contract was up.

Maybe it would make sense to only allow trades after keepers are set.

How would that make any sense for the people that can take on points and are receiving the star players? I've also made trades for guys in specific point ranges in the past so that I could squeak under the 2000 point limit.

 

I'll still contend that there's no quicker way for bad teams to get star players than to clear their team of points at the deadline, then trade pennies on the dollar during the offseason to take on the points of the star players.

 

Let's look at this from the point of view of the bad teams instead of the good ones. If they're not allowed to make trades for good players after the season, they are going to head into the draft with the same lousy team they ended the year with. Sure, the draft will be a bit deeper, but they only have one of every sixteen picks. It actually makes it MORE likely that rich teams will be able to pick up the good players they had to cast off the previous year instead of having them be distributed to the teams in need.

Which works as long as the owners actually do trade for pennies on the dollar instead of dollars on the dollar.

 

That's a good point too. And you can't really do anything about that. Not to open old wounds, but I was pretty pissed when raw traded to put himself just over the limit on the eve of the deadline and bailed out an owner faced with dropping a bunch of points bc he hadn't been paying attention in the off-season. I thought the Ramirez and Headley deal was just horrible. As usual trades look different in hindsight but that whole scenario was created by a simple mistake in math and/or exemption limits and a guy getting lucky.

 

If there are other trades where someone willfully over paid in the off season it must have been before I joined. I'm pretty comfortable with what I paid this offseason even if Cain didn't pitch like an ace.

[Tracer Bullet]

2 things:

 

1. Is our trade deadline 4pm Eastern or midnight?

 

2. Is today still the date on which draft order is set or did abuck change that rule he loved so much? Want to know if I should give another thought to throwing the rest of my matchups for better draft position.

[Guest]

I can't make lineup changes off my phone and the RK site is blocked at work, so my lineup is probably illegal after the Weaver trade. I'll be able to correct it this evening, hope that's ok.

[bukie]

I can't make lineup changes off my phone and the RK site is blocked at work, so my lineup is probably illegal after the Weaver trade. I'll be able to correct it this evening, hope that's ok.

Games already started today, so lineup changes are effected as of tomorrow anyway, so I'd think it was fine.

[Tracer Bullet]

Yeah you would generally have until the next day's games to get your roster legal again

[Guest]

2 things:

 

1. Is our trade deadline 4pm Eastern or midnight?

 

2. Is today still the date on which draft order is set or did abuck change that rule he loved so much? Want to know if I should give another thought to throwing the rest of my matchups for better draft position.

 

I thought the trade deadline mimicked the actual one but don't hold me to it.

[Tracer Bullet]

May not matter unless there are teams working deals till the last minute.

 

If today is the draft order cutoff, we should note the standings now to make it easier. I couldn't remember if abuck made that change or just threatened to.

[cbbryan]

That's a good point too. And you can't really do anything about that. Not to open old wounds, but I was pretty pissed when raw traded to put himself just over the limit on the eve of the deadline and bailed out an owner faced with dropping a bunch of points bc he hadn't been paying attention in the off-season. I thought the Ramirez and Headley deal was just horrible. As usual trades look different in hindsight but that whole scenario was created by a simple mistake in math and/or exemption limits and a guy getting lucky.

 

Glad you were aware of my activity level in the league. I was actually very active. Your frustration level might be less if you didn't assume you knew what was going on with everyone.

[Quakers]

Personally I do not see a great need to change the rules in regard to trading, but a couple of ideas

 

1) Get rid of the keeper points. Only minor leaguers and exempt players may be kept at the end of the season. I would extend the exemptions from 3 to 4 years. Allow only 5 keepers instead of 10. This way ALL established stars would be available for the draft.

 

2) Have some sort of waiver period where teams would have a chance to pick up a player. If they picked up a player they would have to keep them on their roster for the off season. (We tried something like this before and it didn't work)

 

Again, just thoughts.

 

I should like to point out the I originally obtained Cano from NSBB for Robbie Erlin and Danny Duffy I believe. NBB could not keep him because it would put him over the point limit. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Tracer Bullet]

That's a good point too. And you can't really do anything about that. Not to open old wounds, but I was pretty pissed when raw traded to put himself just over the limit on the eve of the deadline and bailed out an owner faced with dropping a bunch of points bc he hadn't been paying attention in the off-season. I thought the Ramirez and Headley deal was just horrible. As usual trades look different in hindsight but that whole scenario was created by a simple mistake in math and/or exemption limits and a guy getting lucky.

 

Glad you were aware of my activity level in the league. I was actually very active. Your frustration level might be less if you didn't assume you knew what was going on with everyone.

 

Your firs post in the trading thread was 2 weeks before the deadline:

 

viewtopic.php?p=2901992#p2901992

 

I'm not frustrated and you make no sense

[abuck1220]

draft order will be based on end of the season standings like every sport and fantasy league in the universe. i reserve the right to change the draft order if tanking occurs.

[Tracer Bullet]

You can't prove I'm tanking

[MembersOnlyJacket]

Personally I do not see a great need to change the rules in regard to trading, but a couple of ideas

 

1) Get rid of the keeper points. Only minor leaguers and exempt players may be kept at the end of the season. I would extend the exemptions from 3 to 4 years. Allow only 5 keepers instead of 10. This way ALL established stars would be available for the draft.

 

2) Have some sort of waiver period where teams would have a chance to pick up a player. If they picked up a player they would have to keep them on their roster for the off season. (We tried something like this before and it didn't work)

 

Again, just thoughts.

 

I should like to point out the I originally obtained Cano from NSBB for Robbie Erlin and Danny Duffy I believe. NBB could not keep him because it would put him over the point limit. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

I agree with a lot of this because the keeper system really de-emphasizes the draft. You can screw around with trades in the offseason, etc to get something in random deals.

 

Here's what I would propose:

 

1. Keeper roster remain at 10 players (minors + majors) with 3 years when they make the MLB roster. The clock starts after 10 starts, 25 appearances, or 200 plate appearances in MLB. 10 total allows you to not be penalized if your crop of minor leaguers do well when they reach MLB.

 

2. Instead of keeping no one, you get to franchise a single player (NFL style). So, theoretically, Felix Hernandez could stay with a team year after year. You have to decide on the franchise tag in the week after the MLB season ends.

 

3. All players who aren't keeper eligible or the single franchise get dumped the second Monday after the MLB regular season ends. Decisions can be fresh from the completed season.

 

4. With that remaining roster, you can trade all you want amongst those players.

 

I feel like that would simplify things and create a real draft instead of teams drafting fillers and what not by the 4th-5th round.

[Tracer Bullet]

I like the league as it is. I'm not interested in wholesale changes.

 

There doesn't seem to be a single team or two that has dominated. Tim and Adam seem to be near the top of the standings most years based on the results available at CBS, but there's a fair amount of change among the contenders year to year. So it seems that the current structure allows for balance among the teams. I'm just not seeing the strong need to change.

[Guest]

Personally I do not see a great need to change the rules in regard to trading, but a couple of ideas

 

1) Get rid of the keeper points. Only minor leaguers and exempt players may be kept at the end of the season. I would extend the exemptions from 3 to 4 years. Allow only 5 keepers instead of 10. This way ALL established stars would be available for the draft.

 

2) Have some sort of waiver period where teams would have a chance to pick up a player. If they picked up a player they would have to keep them on their roster for the off season. (We tried something like this before and it didn't work)

 

Again, just thoughts.

 

I should like to point out the I originally obtained Cano from NSBB for Robbie Erlin and Danny Duffy I believe. NBB could not keep him because it would put him over the point limit. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

I agree with a lot of this because the keeper system really de-emphasizes the draft. You can screw around with trades in the offseason, etc to get something in random deals.

 

Here's what I would propose:

 

1. Keeper roster remain at 10 players (minors + majors) with 3 years when they make the MLB roster. The clock starts after 10 starts, 25 appearances, or 200 plate appearances in MLB. 10 total allows you to not be penalized if your crop of minor leaguers do well when they reach MLB.

 

2. Instead of keeping no one, you get to franchise a single player (NFL style). So, theoretically, Felix Hernandez could stay with a team year after year. You have to decide on the franchise tag in the week after the MLB season ends.

 

3. All players who aren't keeper eligible or the single franchise get dumped the second Monday after the MLB regular season ends. Decisions can be fresh from the completed season.

 

4. With that remaining roster, you can trade all you want amongst those players.

 

I feel like that would simplify things and create a real draft instead of teams drafting fillers and what not by the 4th-5th round.

 

 

This might be not be that different as the current cap restricts you to 2-3 players typically - maybe 4 or some injured guys. I could go either way on the offseason trading. These two proposals both would extend the exempt status (the first by going to 4 years, this one by not counting until the player passes the minors threshold).

[cbbryan]

That's a good point too. And you can't really do anything about that. Not to open old wounds, but I was pretty pissed when raw traded to put himself just over the limit on the eve of the deadline and bailed out an owner faced with dropping a bunch of points bc he hadn't been paying attention in the off-season. I thought the Ramirez and Headley deal was just horrible. As usual trades look different in hindsight but that whole scenario was created by a simple mistake in math and/or exemption limits and a guy getting lucky.

 

Glad you were aware of my activity level in the league. I was actually very active. Your frustration level might be less if you didn't assume you knew what was going on with everyone.

 

Your firs post in the trading thread was 2 weeks before the deadline:

 

viewtopic.php?p=2901992#p2901992

 

I'm not frustrated and you make no sense

 

So because I wasn't active in a trade thread, I wasn't active in the league?

[Tracer Bullet]

You're the most active manager in the league and raw did absolutely nothing to bail you out.

[cbbryan]

You're the most active manager in the league and raw did absolutely nothing to bail you out.

 

 

OK, be an ass.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

I like the league as it is. I'm not interested in wholesale changes.

 

There doesn't seem to be a single team or two that has dominated. Tim and Adam seem to be near the top of the standings most years based on the results available at CBS, but there's a fair amount of change among the contenders year to year. So it seems that the current structure allows for balance among the teams. I'm just not seeing the strong need to change.

 

I think it's fair too. I had strong teams in the mid-00's, then those teams got stale and so I retooled and had a championship in 2010. It goes in waves depending on how you manage it. I would just be in favor of some logical changes.

 

If we just simply eliminated all offseason trades until after keeper rosters are established, that would be a strong move. We should also be establishing keeper rosters, no matter how we do it, within a few weeks after the regular season ends. I do not know why we wait until the day Spring Training opens (approximately). This would solve a lot of problems.

[Guest]

I'm still not sure what problem we're trying to solve.

[abuck1220]

you trading players you weren't going to keep to suckers.

 

there is no real life baseball equivalent to trading guys you don't own.

[Tracer Bullet]

Nor is there a real life equivalent to keeping 10 guys on the same team due to totally arbitrary rules.