Random Cubs Musings

[dcvalpo]

Enjoy the ride...it's actually fun to be a part of a franchise with a plan and a bright long-term future.

We hope. I'm waiting for the day that everyone is pissed that the Cubs traded away the #1 and #3 prospect for an expensive past 30 player who will be "the guy" to get them deep into the playoffs. Can't wait, actually. It means that they will actually be good.

Did B2B steal your account. Because unless we're trading for Harper or Trout, your scenario has about the same chance of happening as Theo quitting and Hendry taking back over.

they can't wait to develop 9 position players and 5 starting pitchers all in their prime at the same time. It's a childish dream.

 

EDIT: There's no sin in selling high in a futures market.

 

Is this really what you think they are doing? Do you really think they will trade 1 and3 for a past his prime 30+ yr old? Really?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

For a 37-year-old Schilling, Epstein traded their No. 1 prospect (on Soxprospects.com's ranking at the time), a 25-year-old pitcher who had graduated a year ago as their No. 5 prospect, a 23-year-old MLB relief pitcher who had some closing experience, and a top-30 type outfield prospect.

[SouthSideRyan]

For a 37-year-old Schilling, Epstein traded their No. 1 prospect (on Soxprospects.com's ranking at the time), a 25-year-old pitcher who had graduated a year ago as their No. 5 prospect, a 23-year-old MLB relief pitcher who had some closing experience, and a top-30 type outfield prospect.

 

That "#1 prospect" wasn't even top 100 in BA (Hanley was though at #19) and Fossum had graduated in 2002

 

ETA: In fact, none of the 4 ever appeared on a top 100 in BA.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

For a 37-year-old Schilling, Epstein traded their No. 1 prospect (on Soxprospects.com's ranking at the time), a 25-year-old pitcher who had graduated a year ago as their No. 5 prospect, a 23-year-old MLB relief pitcher who had some closing experience, and a top-30 type outfield prospect.

 

That "#1 prospect" wasn't even top 100 in BA (Hanley was though at #19) and Fossum had graduated in 2002

 

ETA: In fact, none of the 4 ever appeared on a top 100 in BA.

 

Maybe in a few years, none of our prospects will be either?

[davell]

For a 37-year-old Schilling, Epstein traded their No. 1 prospect (on Soxprospects.com's ranking at the time), a 25-year-old pitcher who had graduated a year ago as their No. 5 prospect, a 23-year-old MLB relief pitcher who had some closing experience, and a top-30 type outfield prospect.

 

That "#1 prospect" wasn't even top 100 in BA (Hanley was though at #19) and Fossum had graduated in 2002

 

ETA: In fact, none of the 4 ever appeared on a top 100 in BA.

 

Maybe in a few years, none of our prospects will be either?

Just admit your previous post was completely useless and a failed troll job.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's not trolling to point out relevant facts. Theo Epstein has a history of trading top prospects, and the returns aren't always under 30.

[imb]

For a 37-year-old Schilling, Epstein traded their No. 1 prospect (on Soxprospects.com's ranking at the time), a 25-year-old pitcher who had graduated a year ago as their No. 5 prospect, a 23-year-old MLB relief pitcher who had some closing experience, and a top-30 type outfield prospect.

 

That "#1 prospect" wasn't even top 100 in BA (Hanley was though at #19) and Fossum had graduated in 2002

 

ETA: In fact, none of the 4 ever appeared on a top 100 in BA.

 

Maybe in a few years, none of our prospects will be either?

 

Consider these goalposts moved, my friends!

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yes. Saying that they wouldn't trade top prospects for older players, and then qualifying that they have to be top-100 after an example is given, is in fact moving the goalposts.

 

For Adrian Gonzalez (then 28, played his first Red Sox season at 29), Epstein sent the Padres No. 1 Casey Kelly (No. 31 in BA's top 100 the next spring), No. 3 Anthony Rizzo (No. 71 in BA's top 100), and recent first-round pick Raymond Fuentes.

 

It's entirely possible that Theo Epstein has completely changed his philosophy from when he ran the Red Sox, but his history says he's perfectly willing to dump large quantities of top prospects for veteran players.

[davell]

You're comparing trading two top 30 prospects, one likely a top 10 guy versus trading 3 guys that weren't top 100 guys. Sorry, but there's a gigantic discrepancy in that. And you know it.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

OK, so from what I can count, Epstein oversaw 22 BA top-100 prospects when he was in Boston (including two that were named to the top-100 list after being traded by Boston in the offseason)

 

Out of those, he traded while they were still top prospects

 

Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez in deal that sent back Josh Beckett (26) and Mike Lowell (32)

Kelly Shoppach as part of larger deal for Coco Crisp (26) and Josh Bard (28)

Craig Hansen as part of a larger deal to swap Manny Ramirez for Jason Bay (29)

Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo were traded (along with a recent first-round pick) for Adrian Gonzalez (29)

And honorable mention for Justin Masterson, who was traded a year after losing prospect status for Victor Martinez (30)

(ages are B-R ages for their first season with the Red Sox).

 

You could say that there's a line to be drawn between 28 and 30, but Epstein with the Red Sox was pretty willing to trade quantities of top prospects to get players for which 30 was at least on the horizon. Granted, maybe the totality of our current front office thinks differently than Epstein did in Boston.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You're comparing trading two top 30 prospects, one likely a top 10 guy versus trading 3 guys that weren't top 100 guys. Sorry, but there's a gigantic discrepancy in that. And you know it.

 

Maybe I read the post wrong, but I don't believe it referred to specifically our current No. 1 and 3 prospects, but any prospects in the future who might hold those spots.

[davell]

That has NOTHING to do with anything. The initial post I responded two(which has since been edited) mentioned he can't wait til we trade our 1st and 3rd ranked prospects for an over 30 guy. There's no way in hell thats happening this offseason or even next, in all likelihood. Hell, probabky not the one after that, due to how good our system is and likely will be. If we were already a good team and a 37 year old stud pitcher(like Schilling was) were available-I do think (and hope) we'd give up a package that likely was close to the equivalent of Pierce Johnson, CJ Edwards, and Jeimer Candelario(value-wise) for that guy.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That has NOTHING to do with anything. The initial post I responded two(which has since been edited) mentioned he can't wait til we trade our 1st and 3rd ranked prospects for an over 30 guy. There's no way in hell thats happening this offseason or even next, in all likelihood. Hell, probabky not the one after that, due to how good our system is and likely will be. If we were already a good team and a 37 year old stud pitcher(like Schilling was) were available-I do think (and hope) we'd give up a package that likely was close to the equivalent of Pierce Johnson, CJ Edwards, and Jeimer Candelario(value-wise) for that guy.

 

He didn't say anything about it happening this offseason or next. He just said he "can't wait" for the day.

[davell]

That has NOTHING to do with anything. The initial post I responded two(which has since been edited) mentioned he can't wait til we trade our 1st and 3rd ranked prospects for an over 30 guy. There's no way in hell thats happening this offseason or even next, in all likelihood. Hell, probabky not the one after that, due to how good our system is and likely will be. If we were already a good team and a 37 year old stud pitcher(like Schilling was) were available-I do think (and hope) we'd give up a package that likely was close to the equivalent of Pierce Johnson, CJ Edwards, and Jeimer Candelario(value-wise) for that guy.

 

He didn't say anything about it happening this offseason or next. He just said he "can't wait" for the day.

You're right, Kyle. He obviously meant doing this 4-5 years in the future.

[Guest]

I like how "an expensive past 30 player who will be 'the guy' to get them deep into the playoffs" has been expanded so that trading for 26 year old Josh Beckett or trading for two guys 28 or under(Crisp and Bard) are now considered reasonable proxies of that behavior.

[imb]

Kyle, not your best day on the Internet. Hopefully you fared better on the other 17 messageboards you inundate.

[XZero771679666304]

Kyle, not your best day on the Internet. Hopefully you fared better on the other 17 messageboards you inundate.

 

Hey, he got a few of us to completely waste our time, so he probably chalks it up as a win.

[Guest]

That has NOTHING to do with anything. The initial post I responded two(which has since been edited) mentioned he can't wait til we trade our 1st and 3rd ranked prospects for an over 30 guy. There's no way in hell thats happening this offseason or even next, in all likelihood. Hell, probabky not the one after that, due to how good our system is and likely will be. If we were already a good team and a 37 year old stud pitcher(like Schilling was) were available-I do think (and hope) we'd give up a package that likely was close to the equivalent of Pierce Johnson, CJ Edwards, and Jeimer Candelario(value-wise) for that guy.

Moran, the point is that I can't wait for the Cubs to be in a position to trade prospects for well established MLB talent. I wasn't trying to be literal. It's really getting to be regoddamndiculous. Theo has established he will do that, as Kyle pointed out. Jesus [expletive] Christ on a popscicle stick.

[Careless]

Castro: -0.4

Marmol: -0.8

Colvin: -1.1

DeWitt: AAA

Vitters: AAA

B Jackson: AA

Wells: retired

 

 

yeah, why the [expletive] aren't we winning championships yet, THEO??

Good lord, Colvin managed a -1.1 in 78 PAs

[davell]

That has NOTHING to do with anything. The initial post I responded two(which has since been edited) mentioned he can't wait til we trade our 1st and 3rd ranked prospects for an over 30 guy. There's no way in hell thats happening this offseason or even next, in all likelihood. Hell, probabky not the one after that, due to how good our system is and likely will be. If we were already a good team and a 37 year old stud pitcher(like Schilling was) were available-I do think (and hope) we'd give up a package that likely was close to the equivalent of Pierce Johnson, CJ Edwards, and Jeimer Candelario(value-wise) for that guy.

Moran, the point is that I can't wait for the Cubs to be in a position to trade prospects for well established MLB talent. I wasn't trying to be literal. It's really getting to be regoddamndiculous. Theo has established he will do that, as Kyle pointed out. Jesus [expletive] Christ on a popscicle stick.

 

Name calling? Awesome. Total class move. Honestly, not even sure what you're responding to there as it is. The Cubs can make a "buying move" trade at any point. And I doubt it'd shock many if they do exactly that this offseason, for the right piece. Which pretty much rendered your initial post into 'well duh, no [expletive]" territory, unless you actually thought we'd trade be trading our top guys.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I like how "an expensive past 30 player who will be 'the guy' to get them deep into the playoffs" has been expanded so that trading for 26 year old Josh Beckett or trading for two guys 28 or under(Crisp and Bard) are now considered reasonable proxies of that behavior.

 

It was pretty sneaky of me to try to sneak that by you by explicitly pointing out the difference.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Kyle, not your best day on the Internet. Hopefully you fared better on the other 17 messageboards you inundate.

 

I'm honestly not sure you know what "moving the goalposts" means outside of some generic insult.

[Guest]

I forgot what it was like when imb posts in baseball discussions.

[Guest]

That has NOTHING to do with anything. The initial post I responded two(which has since been edited) mentioned he can't wait til we trade our 1st and 3rd ranked prospects for an over 30 guy. There's no way in hell thats happening this offseason or even next, in all likelihood. Hell, probabky not the one after that, due to how good our system is and likely will be. If we were already a good team and a 37 year old stud pitcher(like Schilling was) were available-I do think (and hope) we'd give up a package that likely was close to the equivalent of Pierce Johnson, CJ Edwards, and Jeimer Candelario(value-wise) for that guy.

Moran, the point is that I can't wait for the Cubs to be in a position to trade prospects for well established MLB talent. I wasn't trying to be literal. It's really getting to be regoddamndiculous. Theo has established he will do that, as Kyle pointed out. Jesus [expletive] Christ on a popscicle stick.

 

Name calling? Awesome. Total class move. Honestly, not even sure what you're responding to there as it is. The Cubs can make a "buying move" trade at any point. And I doubt it'd shock many if they do exactly that this offseason, for the right piece. Which pretty much rendered your initial post into 'well duh, no [expletive]" territory, unless you actually thought we'd trade be trading our top guys.

I don't know if you are intentionally missing the point or not. I'll try not to be too specific nor too general. I cannot wait for a time in when the Cubs are really good and will feel comfortable trading away a really good top prospect or two for a really good established MLB player in hope that said player will help them to win a World Series.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If you are projecting the 2014 Cubs, I think it's at the point where the needle moves a little bit because of the existence of Javier Baez.

 

I'm fantasizing about an Andruw Jones late-season call-up/playoff monster scenario.