The Ricketts Ownership

[Guest]

 

That can be a plan... it needs to be broken down further.. but if your goal is to win A world series, then the plan should be to be a contender as often as possible and make the playoffs a bunch of times. That's the best way to go about trying to attain the goal of winning a World Series. There really is no other way to approach it.

 

Sure there is. The Marlins and Braves both had a goal of winning a WS in the 90s. They had different plans for doing so. Both were effective. You can argue which was more effective or which is more likely to be effective, I suppose. I know which I prefer for the Cubs.

 

I've already seen the Cubs try to implement the 1990s' Braves plan. I was hoping for the 2000s Red Sox plan (we're going to build an awesome farm system and almost outspend the Yankees at the same time because we can).

 

The Red Sox spending was very much tied to keeping players they developed or acquired via trade more than outspending people in free agency. The most notable free agent splurges of Theo's Red Sox heyday were Damon, Drew, Clement, and Renteria. By contrast, they spent tons of money keeping homegrown or acquired guys like Manny(FA but pre-Theo), Pedro, Schilling, Ortiz, Lowell, Lowe, Varitek, Nomar, Nixon, Beckett, Bay, Pedroia, Lester, etc.

[jersey cubs fan]

I mean, is it that people are afraid they're going to get their smart Cub fan card taken away if they disagree with Theo, or is it just because Kyle is on the opposing side(and uses too much hyperbole to get his point across)

 

Disagree with Theo about what?

 

That he should take several years before trying to make the team any good.

[SouthSideRyan]

I mean, is it that people are afraid they're going to get their smart Cub fan card taken away if they disagree with Theo, or is it just because Kyle is on the opposing side(and uses too much hyperbole to get his point across)

 

Disagree with Theo about what?

 

Anything.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The Red Sox spending was very much tied to keeping players they developed or acquired via trade more than outspending people in free agency. The most notable free agent splurges of Theo's Red Sox heyday were Damon, Drew, Clement, and Renteria. By contrast, they spent tons of money keeping homegrown or acquired guys like Manny(FA but pre-Theo), Pedro, Schilling, Ortiz, Lowell, Lowe, Varitek, Nomar, Nixon, Beckett, Bay, Pedroia, Lester, etc.

 

They made many of those acquisitions because they knew they could afford to keep them with their spending.

 

I'd be happy with making some acquisitions like that and extending them. I mean, we all thought Travis Wood would be that guy, so I'll give them credit for one even if it didn't work out...

[SouthSideRyan]

Kyle was that 3rd in revenue solely for ticket sales or was that total revenue?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This is such a stupid point of view.

 

 

You have to be for tanking multiple seasons or you don't deserve the front office that is tanking multiple seasons. Trying to ridicule any fan who has the audacity to want his team not to suck for multi-year stretches.

 

The best part is that many of the people who are disagreeing now were quite persuasive in convincing me that there was absolutely no reason the Cubs should ever, ever take this path.

 

[Tracer Bullet]

I maintain that you don't deserve Theo and should be a Marlins fan.

 

Agreed.

 

This is such a stupid point of view.

 

 

You have to be for tanking multiple seasons or you don't deserve the front office that is tanking multiple seasons. Trying to ridicule any fan who has the audacity to want his team not to suck for multi-year stretches.

 

Don't draw such broad conclusions from a simple statement. Kyle doesn't deserve Theo. I haven't made my mind up about you yet.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Kyle was that 3rd in revenue solely for ticket sales or was that total revenue?

 

Total revenue. It is, however, an estimate because the books are not open.

 

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/#p_1_s_d5_

[Guest]

I mean, is it that people are afraid they're going to get their smart Cub fan card taken away if they disagree with Theo, or is it just because Kyle is on the opposing side(and uses too much hyperbole to get his point across)

 

Disagree with Theo about what?

 

Anything.

 

I just think it's difficult to be critical in the case of a guy whose acumen for this job I trust that much when there is so much information that isn't available to us.

 

I definitely don't think he just has chosen to pull off his real life Baseball Mogul project, like Kyle seems to.

 

I could criticize people's moves far more easily (and with much less background info) if they are idiots, because then it's safe to say they're doing wrong things because they're stupid.

 

If someone who I think possesses a lot of intelligence and common sense is doing stuff that doesn't make sense, I am more apt to question the information I have that is making me think stuff doesn't make sense.

Edited March 25, 2013 by David

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Don't draw such broad conclusions from a simple statement. Kyle doesn't deserve Theo. I haven't made my mind up about you yet.

 

I wish we'd went after Cherington instead.

 

I think running a baseball team is one of those jobs where you have to be really hungry, and it's hard to maintain that drive after you've already had success. I want someone young and fresh.

 

Epstein doesn't deserve me.

[Tracer Bullet]

I mean, is it that people are afraid they're going to get their smart Cub fan card taken away if they disagree with Theo, or is it just because Kyle is on the opposing side(and uses too much hyperbole to get his point across)

 

Disagree with Theo about what?

 

Anything.

 

Yes. Anyone that disagrees with Theo about anything is stupid. Is this where you wanted this question to end up?

[Tracer Bullet]

Don't draw such broad conclusions from a simple statement. Kyle doesn't deserve Theo. I haven't made my mind up about you yet.

 

I wish we'd went after Cherington instead.

 

I think running a baseball team is one of those jobs where you have to be really hungry, and it's hard to maintain that drive after you've already had success. I want someone young and fresh.

 

Epstein doesn't deserve me.

 

No one does

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The Red Sox already had the farm system in place by the time Theo came around though. The Cubs didn't. It wasn't like Theo showed up, snapped his fingers, and suddenly the Red Sox had a good farm system and strong major league talent.

 

But by the late 2000s, they still had a strong farm system, and it was built during a time when they were winning WS. I don't see why we need to be bad to build a farm system.

Until you acknowledge that the changes in the CBA actually matter, you never will. And we've been over this way too often as it is, so I don't want to do it again.

 

I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that overslotting was a blip in the history of farm systems and that there are plenty of examples of teams building great farm systems without it.

 

(oops we're doing it again)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

No one does

 

 

Look at it this way. When you guys won't have this argument with me, I have to go over to BCB and have it there. Do you really want to put money into Al Yellon's pocket over Tim's?

[Tracer Bullet]

I mean, is it that people are afraid they're going to get their smart Cub fan card taken away if they disagree with Theo, or is it just because Kyle is on the opposing side(and uses too much hyperbole to get his point across)

 

Disagree with Theo about what?

 

That he should take several years before trying to make the team any good.

 

I'm ok with the plan even if it means being terrible this year and probably even next. I don't think everyone that disagrees is stupid though some people on the other side are being quite ridiculous.

 

I'd rather tank another season and add assets with value after this year than hope to make the playoffs and not add those assets or, worse yet, give up others. I don't want to try to imitate the '06 cardinals.

[Tracer Bullet]

No one does

 

 

Look at it this way. When you guys won't have this argument with me, I have to go over to BCB and have it there. Do you really want to put money into Al Yellon's pocket over Tim's?

 

We'll take up a collection to make up the difference.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

No one does

 

 

Look at it this way. When you guys won't have this argument with me, I have to go over to BCB and have it there. Do you really want to put money into Al Yellon's pocket over Tim's?

 

We'll take up a collection to make up the difference.

 

It was a trick question. I operate on parallel fronts.

[Cubswin11]

Who voted "other?" Care to explain? Or was a just a vote of indifference?

[mookie]

I love the irony of the logic fist.

[SouthSideRyan]

Kyle was that 3rd in revenue solely for ticket sales or was that total revenue?

 

Total revenue. It is, however, an estimate because the books are not open.

 

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/#p_1_s_d5_

 

Then all this talk about woe is us we can't put up enough ads on our scoreboard and we're getting screwed on tv deals has nothing to do with why we're suddenly a mid-market team.

[Guest]

Kyle was that 3rd in revenue solely for ticket sales or was that total revenue?

 

Total revenue. It is, however, an estimate because the books are not open.

 

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/#p_1_s_d5_

 

Then all this talk about woe is us we can't put up enough ads on our scoreboard and we're getting screwed on tv deals has nothing to do with why we're suddenly a mid-market team.

 

My whole point is that I don't buy that we're #3 in total revenue given those facts.

 

Is our advantage in attendance/ticket prices so great that we're overcoming this huge edge that so many other teams have on us?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Is our advantage in attendance/ticket prices so great that we're overcoming this huge edge that so many other teams have on us?

 

https://www.teammarketing.com/public/files/2011_mlb_fci.pdf

 

2011 numbers:

 

Average MLB ticket: $26.81

Average Cubs ticket: $46.90

 

$46.90 x 3,017,966 in official attendance = $142m

 

Compare that to the Milwaukee Brewers, who had almost identical attendance but a much lower price:

 

$22.10 x 3,071,373 = $68m

 

And like I said, the Cubs have been very creative about finding other sources of revenue to make up for the places they are disadvantaged.

[Guest]

Is our advantage in attendance/ticket prices so great that we're overcoming this huge edge that so many other teams have on us?

 

https://www.teammarketing.com/public/files/2011_mlb_fci.pdf

 

2011 numbers:

 

Average MLB ticket: $26.81

Average Cubs ticket: $46.90

 

$46.90 x 3,017,966 in official attendance = $142m

 

Compare that to the Milwaukee Brewers, who had almost identical attendance but a much lower price:

 

$22.10 x 3,071,373 = $68m

 

And like I said, the Cubs have been very creative about finding other sources of revenue to make up for the places they are disadvantaged.

 

What's the average MLB ticket of a large market team?

[Tracer Bullet]

Are we getting full price for all those tix? Aren't season tix and partial season tix at something of a discount? Or is that figured into the average?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What's the average MLB ticket of a large market team?

 

How do you want to define it?

 

2011

Boston $53

New York Y $51

Cubs $46

White Sox $40

Phillies $36

New York M $30

Los Angeles D $30

Los Angeles A $17