The Ricketts Ownership

[Guest]

I find it hard to believe I'm aligning with Kyle somewhat here. But I think Ricketts is overleveraged, knew he'd be cutting payroll, but is smart enough to hire a group that may be able to work well under those parameters. Where Kyle and I disagree, is I think that if Theo could have 150 mill payroll currently, he'd have it. And thats why I'm not a fan of Ricketts- at least not right now. I don't think he's willing to allow for that until we're adding our new TV contract into the mix. And to me, if you're buying a major market team, you better be able to act like one, without additional help. He ain't McCourt obviously, but I have to think one of the other groups could have been better equipped to own the Cubs.

 

I thought the leveraging involved in the purchase of the team had more to do with tax savings and stuff than the family actually needing to do it to buy the team...at least, that's what I remember being the story 4ish years ago when this was going on.

 

He doesn't need "additional help"...the Cubs simply have a lot of limitations on how much of their "major market" potential revenue they're actually able to access for a lot of the reasons Mojo listed.

[jersey cubs fan]

Expectations were set that it would take time under their plan for the Cubs to competitive.

 

Which should have been unacceptable from the outset.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Expectations were set that it would take time under their plan for the Cubs to competitive.

 

Which should have been unacceptable from the outset.

 

[Banedon]

That's because we all understand what he and Theo are trying to do. Expectations were set that it would take time under their plan for the Cubs to competitive. There may have been other ways to do it, but so far, it's been exactly what we were told it would be. He's not misled fans about anything.

 

You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying!

 

The plan is to win the World Series, just not on Kyle's schedule. Truly horrifying.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That's because we all understand what he and Theo are trying to do. Expectations were set that it would take time under their plan for the Cubs to competitive. There may have been other ways to do it, but so far, it's been exactly what we were told it would be. He's not misled fans about anything.

 

You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying!

 

The plan is to win the World Series, just not on Kyle's schedule. Truly horrifying.

 

That's a goal, not a plan. Every team has the goal of winning the World Series.

[Guest]

That's because we all understand what he and Theo are trying to do. Expectations were set that it would take time under their plan for the Cubs to competitive. There may have been other ways to do it, but so far, it's been exactly what we were told it would be. He's not misled fans about anything.

 

You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying!

 

The plan is to win the World Series, just not on Kyle's schedule. Truly horrifying.

 

That's a goal, not a plan. Every team has the goal of winning the World Series.

 

Is every team, from an organizational standpoint, actually trying to win the World Series?

[mookie]

Not the [expletive] Cubs!

 

Not this season!

 

Not next!

 

Maybe in [expletive] 2015!

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Is every team, from an organizational standpoint, actually trying to win the World Series?

 

Probably not. Doesn't seem like the Cubs are. Maybe passively trying.

[Tracer Bullet]

Is every team, from an organizational standpoint, actually trying to win the World Series?

 

Probably not. Doesn't seem like the Cubs are. Maybe passively trying.

 

So the plan is to be a strong contender for the WS, just not on your schedule.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Is every team, from an organizational standpoint, actually trying to win the World Series?

 

Probably not. Doesn't seem like the Cubs are. Maybe passively trying.

 

So the plan is to be a strong contender for the WS, just not on your schedule.

 

At best, that's an incomplete description of the plan.

[Tracer Bullet]

You don't believe that the Cubs are trying to build an organizational structure to strongly compete for the WS? I don't care about timeline for the purposes of this question - think of it as near or far in the future as you like.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You don't believe that the Cubs are trying to build an organizational structure to strongly compete for the WS? I don't care about timeline for the purposes of this question - think of it as near or far in the future as you like.

 

I think describing the "plan" merely in terms of the goal is an attempt to gloss over the more problematic elements of the plan.

[jersey cubs fan]

You don't believe that the Cubs are trying to build an organizational structure to strongly compete for the WS? I don't care about timeline for the purposes of this question - think of it as near or far in the future as you like.

 

Anybody can build a great team eventually if they tank multiple seasons and suffer no repercussions for losing as often as the Cubs have lost. It's the easy way out. The timeline matters.

[Tracer Bullet]

No it's not. I'm not attempting to gloss over anything. Nor is this a question about the goal. The plan is to build an organization capable of being a strong WS contender every year. That's my strong belief. That it might be 2015 or later before they contend is a matter of timing.

 

You may think the details of the plan are flawed, but I'm asking if you even agree that that's the plan.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

No it's not. I'm not attempting to gloss over anything. Nor is this a question about the goal. The plan is to build an organization capable of being a strong WS contender every year. That's my strong belief. That it might be 2015 or later before they contend is a matter of timing.

 

You may think the details of the plan are flawed, but I'm asking if you even agree that that's the plan.

 

If we're insisting on describing it in such overly simplified terms, then I would say that was Rickett's plan in hiring Epstein.

 

I think Epstein's plan is to find out how good of a farm system he can build when given the resources and free reign to focus on it, and to hope that wins a World Series at some point.

[Tracer Bullet]

I maintain that you don't deserve Theo and should be a Marlins fan.

[jersey cubs fan]

The plan is to build an organization capable of being a strong WS contender every year.

 

That isn't a plan, that is a goal.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I maintain that you don't deserve Theo and should be a Marlins fan.

 

I maintain that Cubs fans have remarkably short memories and are suffering under some sort of Stockholm Syndrome. When Dave Kaplan used to suggest the Cubs go with this plan in 2011, he was roundly and thoroughly ridiculed.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

My plan is to become rich and handsome and popular and successful.

 

That's the plan.

[Guest]

The plan is to build an organization capable of being a strong WS contender every year.

 

That isn't a plan, that is a goal.

 

That can be a plan... it needs to be broken down further.. but if your goal is to win A world series, then the plan should be to be a contender as often as possible and make the playoffs a bunch of times. That's the best way to go about trying to attain the goal of winning a World Series. There really is no other way to approach it.

 

 

Again, it has to be broken down further to do it, but you can say that about any plan.

 

 

i.e. "The plan is to build a strong foundation of player development and scouting." Well, that's a goal too....how do you get there?

 

"By hiring the best scouts and coaches possible and investing in amateur talent in every available way."

 

Well, that's sort of a goal too...how do you go about doing all that?

 

I could keep doing that if I wanted to...

[davell]

This thread isn't about Theo.(or Kyle) Again, my issue is that I think the reason Theo's plan is what it is, is strictly catered to the fact that Ricketts couldn't(or at least wouldn't) ante up for Fielder and Darvish or other bigtime FA, until he had more revenue coming in. No one seems to question Theo's intelligence, so if he had the ability to do things like I just mentioned, there's really no reason why he wouldn't be doing them. To think he's sitting around and expecting to grow a full World Series contender is assinine. He wins a World Series here, he's likely getting voted into the Hall. I can't imagine he's chosen this route unless it made the most sense.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This thread isn't about Theo.(or Kyle) Again, my issue is that I think the reason Theo's plan is what it is, is strictly catered to the fact that Ricketts couldn't(or at least wouldn't) ante up for Fielder and Darvish or other bigtime FA, until he had more revenue coming in. No one seems to question Theo's intelligence, so if he had the ability to do things like I just mentioned, there's really no reason why he wouldn't be doing them. To think he's sitting around and expecting to grow a full World Series contender is assinine. He wins a World Series here, he's likely getting voted into the Hall. I can't imagine he's chosen this route unless it made the most sense.

 

I think Theo made it very explicit why he wouldn't do those things: He was burnt out from that approach in Boston and wanted to try something new.

 

If Ricketts had told him he was under pressure to win immediately in Chicago, I doubt he would have taken the job.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm surprised the voting is so positive.

 

We're several years past due for a stadium deal, the MLB payroll is down by a third, and we've lost more games than the year before every single year he's owned the team.

 

I'd definitely take another spin at the wheel.

 

That's because we all understand what he and Theo are trying to do. Expectations were set that it would take time under their plan for the Cubs to competitive. There may have been other ways to do it, but so far, it's been exactly what we were told it would be. He's not misled fans about anything.

 

"Dual Fronts." ""Every season is a chance to win, and every chance to win is sacred.""

[Tracer Bullet]

The plan is to build an organization capable of being a strong WS contender every year.

 

That isn't a plan, that is a goal.

 

I disagree. The goal is to win the WS in year X (my guess is 2016-ish). The plan is to build an organization capable of contending for a WS on an annual basis (probably beginning in 2015/16) through a number of things, not all of which we're privy to, but some of which seem clear. I don't want to get into the mess of the details but wanted to focus on whether kyle actually believed that the long-term big picture plan was what Theo keeps saying it is. Kyle doesn't believe that and apparently thinks Theo plans to run an elaborate keeper league. Possibly a new level of ridiculousness, I can't keep track, but hopefully it makes it easier to ignore this sort of thing.

[Guest]

This thread isn't about Theo.(or Kyle) Again, my issue is that I think the reason Theo's plan is what it is, is strictly catered to the fact that Ricketts couldn't(or at least wouldn't) ante up for Fielder and Darvish or other bigtime FA, until he had more revenue coming in. No one seems to question Theo's intelligence, so if he had the ability to do things like I just mentioned, there's really no reason why he wouldn't be doing them. To think he's sitting around and expecting to grow a full World Series contender is assinine. He wins a World Series here, he's likely getting voted into the Hall. I can't imagine he's chosen this route unless it made the most sense.

 

 

I don't really expect ownership to spend out of pocket on payroll. If the current revenues of the team can't sustain a higher payroll, that's not really the new ownership's fault. Now they have to work to getting the franchise to the point where they can spend like a big market team. I mean, I guess if we could've found some free spending owner who was willing to put his own money into the payroll, that would be cool...but I'm fine with the "all revenue goes back into the team" approach... now we just need to actually have that kind of revenue. It's not like attendance alone gets us there, with crippling restrictions on stadium advertising, a shitty (by comparison to other large markets you want them to hang with) TV deal, and so on...

 

It's already been well documented that the 2007 and forward type spending was meant to drive up the team's value and wasn't necessarily sustainable.