2013-14 International Free Agency Thread

[BeerHere]

Not sure if this has been addressed, does anyone know where Torres or Jimenez would have gone in the draft this year?

Good question and I have wondered that myself. I have sent that question to BA twice and it had yet to be answered.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Not sure if this has been addressed, does anyone know where Torres or Jimenez would have gone in the draft this year?

Good question and I have wondered that myself. I have sent that question to BA twice and it had yet to be answered.

 

One of the pundits on Twitter said maybe supplemental first for Torres at best, later for Jimenez.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

I don't know how you can project kids that have barely turned 16 into a draft full of college kids and 18-year-olds.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't know how you can project kids that have barely turned 16 into a draft full of college kids and 18-year-olds.

 

Insanely conservatively.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

And putting one of them in the supplemental round is conservative?

[Guest]

Not sure if this has been addressed, does anyone know where Torres or Jimenez would have gone in the draft this year?

 

I imagine late first at best (and Jimenez would be drafted later than Torres, since he is so raw). It's tough for them to favorably compare to HS seniors and college juniors when they are two and five years younger than them respectively and have gotten less instruction than American draftees. Add to that that neither of them are in that elite class of 16-year old IFAs like Miguel Sano, Michel Ynoa, Miguel Cabrera or Felix Hernandez who had all been suggested as possible top 10 picks in the year they signed.

[Guest]

In the link below, Jesse Sanchez has the Erling Moreno signing at $650,000, not $800,000.

 

Jesse Sanchez[/url]"]"We really like the depth and premium talent in this particular class," general manager Jed Hoyer said Tuesday. "We made a decision to be aggressive and acquire some international slots. I don't think we're the last team that will look to add international slots. ... For us, we felt really good about that, and it was something we discussed that if we had the opportunity to add money to go after some players, we'd do it."

 

For now, the club is safe from an overage penalty. But the team's pending deal with Jimenez, which is expected to be worth $2.8 million, would put them $749,700 -- or 13.6 percent -- over their pool and into the penalty phase. Teams that exceed their pools by 10 to 15 percent are not allowed to sign a player for more than $500,000 during the 2014-2015 signing period and have to pay 100-percent tax on the pool overage.

 

The Cubs can still acquire $1,315,600 in slot money from other teams to avoid any penalty, because the Collective Bargaining Agreement allows teams to add up to 50 percent of the initial bonus pool, which in Chicago's case was $4,557,200.

 

It's unclear if the Cubs are still trying to acquire more international slot money. What's certain are the current penalty guidelines put into practice last year.

[CubsWin]

I don't know how you can project kids that have barely turned 16 into a draft full of college kids and 18-year-olds.

 

Insanely conservatively.

Agreed.

 

Torres and Jimenez were widely judged superior prospects compared to Frandy De La Rosa and Luis Acosta, but those guys haven't looked worthy of having been drafted in the first ten rounds so far. De La Rosa did nothing in EXST and nothing so far in the DSL. Acosta has looked terrible. These guys may have athleticism and tools, but they're all pretty much wait and see guys. After a year or two, when they actually get to high school senior age, there will be a much clearer sense of what they can be.

[Guest]

@BenBadler: Cancel your brunch plans. I'll be on @670thescore in Chicago to analyze international signings at the top of the hour.

[Guest]

@JesseSanchezMLB Lot of interest in RHP Tseng (TW), @MLB's #29, but #Cubs have emerged as favorite. Expected to command at least $1.5M

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Jen-Ho Tseng(曾仁和) (born October 3, 1994) is a Taiwanese baseball player who represented Taiwan at the 2013 World Baseball Classic.

He debuted for the national team when he was just 18 years old. His sister also pitched for Taiwan's women national team.

Tseng was 0–1 with a 1.80 ERA in the 2011 Asian Junior Championship. In the 2012 World Junior Baseball Championship, he was superb at 3–0, 0.84 with a save. In 21 1/3 innings, he fanned 22 and allowed only 12 hits and 2 walks. He beat Canada, South Korea and Colombia. He was second in the event in strikeouts (four behind Shintaro Fujinami), led in wins and tied Jae-min Shim for the most appearances (6). He was named the tourney's All-Star relief pitcher.

Jen-Ho then was the only high schooler picked for Taiwan's squad in the 2013 World Baseball Classic Qualifiers, 3 1/2 years younger than Yao-Lin Wang, the next-youngest). He made his lone appearance in their 9–0 win over New Zealand in the finale. Relieving Kai-Wen Cheng with a 7–0 lead in the 7th, he retired Moko Moanaroa then walked Beau Bishop. Tseng recovered to fan two players with minor league experience in the US, Alan Schoenberger and Tim Auty, to end the inning. He was replaced by Yen-Feng Lin in the 8th. He remained with Taiwan for the 2012 Asian Baseball Championship, going 1–0 and tossing six shutout innings; he beat rival South Korea to help ensure Taiwan getting a Silver Medal and Korea the Bronze.

Tseng throws a slider, sinker, changeup and knuckle-curve. His peak speed has been 95 mph as of 2012.

 

 

- some video

[davell]

Sweet. Taking the all in approach.

[BeerHere]

@JesseSanchezMLB Lot of interest in RHP Tseng (TW), @MLB's #29, but #Cubs have emerged as favorite. Expected to command at least $1.5M

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Jen-Ho Tseng(曾仁和) (born October 3, 1994) is a Taiwanese baseball player who represented Taiwan at the 2013 World Baseball Classic.

He debuted for the national team when he was just 18 years old. His sister also pitched for Taiwan's women national team.

Tseng was 0–1 with a 1.80 ERA in the 2011 Asian Junior Championship. In the 2012 World Junior Baseball Championship, he was superb at 3–0, 0.84 with a save. In 21 1/3 innings, he fanned 22 and allowed only 12 hits and 2 walks. He beat Canada, South Korea and Colombia. He was second in the event in strikeouts (four behind Shintaro Fujinami), led in wins and tied Jae-min Shim for the most appearances (6). He was named the tourney's All-Star relief pitcher.

Jen-Ho then was the only high schooler picked for Taiwan's squad in the 2013 World Baseball Classic Qualifiers, 3 1/2 years younger than Yao-Lin Wang, the next-youngest). He made his lone appearance in their 9–0 win over New Zealand in the finale. Relieving Kai-Wen Cheng with a 7–0 lead in the 7th, he retired Moko Moanaroa then walked Beau Bishop. Tseng recovered to fan two players with minor league experience in the US, Alan Schoenberger and Tim Auty, to end the inning. He was replaced by Yen-Feng Lin in the 8th. He remained with Taiwan for the 2012 Asian Baseball Championship, going 1–0 and tossing six shutout innings; he beat rival South Korea to help ensure Taiwan getting a Silver Medal and Korea the Bronze.

Tseng throws a slider, sinker, changeup and knuckle-curve. His peak speed has been 95 mph as of 2012.

 

 

- some video

 

I don't see how they can afford him considering that they're delaying the signing of Jimenez while they try and find more pool space. The asian guys do count against he intl cap, right?

[Guest]

@JesseSanchezMLB Lot of interest in RHP Tseng (TW), @MLB's #29, but #Cubs have emerged as favorite. Expected to command at least $1.5M

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Jen-Ho Tseng(曾仁和) (born October 3, 1994) is a Taiwanese baseball player who represented Taiwan at the 2013 World Baseball Classic.

He debuted for the national team when he was just 18 years old. His sister also pitched for Taiwan's women national team.

Tseng was 0–1 with a 1.80 ERA in the 2011 Asian Junior Championship. In the 2012 World Junior Baseball Championship, he was superb at 3–0, 0.84 with a save. In 21 1/3 innings, he fanned 22 and allowed only 12 hits and 2 walks. He beat Canada, South Korea and Colombia. He was second in the event in strikeouts (four behind Shintaro Fujinami), led in wins and tied Jae-min Shim for the most appearances (6). He was named the tourney's All-Star relief pitcher.

Jen-Ho then was the only high schooler picked for Taiwan's squad in the 2013 World Baseball Classic Qualifiers, 3 1/2 years younger than Yao-Lin Wang, the next-youngest). He made his lone appearance in their 9–0 win over New Zealand in the finale. Relieving Kai-Wen Cheng with a 7–0 lead in the 7th, he retired Moko Moanaroa then walked Beau Bishop. Tseng recovered to fan two players with minor league experience in the US, Alan Schoenberger and Tim Auty, to end the inning. He was replaced by Yen-Feng Lin in the 8th. He remained with Taiwan for the 2012 Asian Baseball Championship, going 1–0 and tossing six shutout innings; he beat rival South Korea to help ensure Taiwan getting a Silver Medal and Korea the Bronze.

Tseng throws a slider, sinker, changeup and knuckle-curve. His peak speed has been 95 mph as of 2012.

 

 

- some video

 

I don't see how they can afford him considering that they're delaying the signing of Jimenez while they try and find more pool space. The asian guys do count against he intl cap, right?

 

Yes, they count.

 

They aren't necessarily going to try to stay under the cap.

[Guest]

Did Torreyes have to be added to the 40 to avoid the Rule 5 this year?

 

Noticed this never got an answer. I'm not really positive either way on this, but I trust there are people here who would know for sure.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

No, Torreyes was not rule 5 eligible. 2014 or 2015, I'm fairly sure.

[davell]

Did Torreyes have to be added to the 40 to avoid the Rule 5 this year?

 

Noticed this never got an answer. I'm not really positive either way on this, but I trust there are people here who would know for sure.

Not positive, but I'm pretty sure he had another year. My guess is AZPhil has already done a post on it at TCR. This is a pretty light year for us, as far as guys we have to add. Alcantara being the main guy.

[Guest]

Did Torreyes have to be added to the 40 to avoid the Rule 5 this year?

 

Noticed this never got an answer. I'm not really positive either way on this, but I trust there are people here who would know for sure.

 

Torreyes didn't have to be added to the 40-man this offseason.

[toonsterwu]

I want to like Tseng, and he's young, but he sure didn't impress me in those WBC games this year (I think that was the guy that got some spot time). That said, a kid that young is probably trying to light up the gun to attract scouts, so it probably isn't the best way to judge a player.

[Guest]

I want to like Tseng, and he's young, but he sure didn't impress me in those WBC games this year (I think that was the guy that got some spot time). That said, a kid that young is probably trying to light up the gun to attract scouts, so it probably isn't the best way to judge a player.

His stuff took a step back this year. Massive red flag, IMO.

[Guest]

Ben Badler's report on Tseng:

 

23. Jen-Ho Tseng, rhp, Taiwan

Born: Oct. 3, 1994. Ht.: 6-1. Wt.: 200. B-T: L-R.

 

At the end of last year, Tseng looked like a surefire million-dollar prospect who could have ranked No. 1 overall on this list, and some scouts felt would have been a first-round pick had he been born in the United States. But Tseng has gone backward this spring in terms of his stuff, control and game performance.

 

Tseng has shown he could dominate his peers and foreign professionals while pitching for Taiwan’s national team. He appeared in six of Taiwan’s eight games at the 18U World Championship last September in South Korea, with a 22-2 K-BB mark in 21 innings and an ERA of 0.84. He saw brief action in the World Baseball Classic qualifier in November. Then he threw six shutout innings in a key 7-0 win over South Korea in the Asian Championship in Taiwan in December. He pitched in the WBC in March as an 18-year-old, where he understandably struggled in a pair of relief appearances, but his stuff and control weren’t sharp.

 

Tseng simply hasn’t been as electric this year. At his best last year, he pitched at 89-92 mph and touched 95, and at times earned plus grades for his curveball and changeup, with some scouts grading the changeup as a potential plus-plus pitch. He showed the ability to throw his curve for strikes consistently with tight spin and mixed in an average slider. At the WBC, his fastball parked in the high 80s, his breaking ball was loose and his control was erratic. Scouts who have watched him since then have said his stuff and command are still down. Some have expressed concern about Tseng’s durability due to his frame and mechanics, and others think his usage could be the culprit and that his stuff could bounce back after he signs.

 

Tseng is the biggest X-factor in the class, as any team that signs him is banking on what scouts saw from him last year rather than what he has shown recently. Some teams think the Indians and Twins—two of the most aggressive teams in signing Taiwanese players in recent years—could be in the mix to sign him, while the Dodgers have also been mentioned.

[Guest]

Jesse Sanchez ‏@JesseSanchezMLB 9s

EJ expects to sign for $2.8M & adding high-$ prospect like Tseng could put #Cubs in max-penalty even if trade for max-slot $ allowed ($1.3M)

 

 

Jesse Sanchez ‏@JesseSanchezMLB 13s

#Cubs have spent $3,470,000 on SS Gleyber Torres ($1.7M), RHP Erling Moreno ($650K), RHP Jefferson Mejia ($850K) catcher Johan Matos ($270K)

[jersey cubs fan]

Sounds like a signing that would be along the lines of the pre-new CBA, "screw it, we have to spend the money now" variety. Interesting guy, but worthy of throwing away next year's options?

[Guest]

Yeah, if they sign Tseng, there's no way they can't go over the cap.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yeah, if they sign Tseng, there's no way they can't go over the cap.

 

So if they do this, then the only point in trading for slot money was to save on the amount of money they would pay in penalties?

 

 

That's disheartening.

[Guest]

Sounds like a signing that would be along the lines of the pre-new CBA, "screw it, we have to spend the money now" variety. Interesting guy, but worthy of throwing away next year's options?

 

Well, if they can't go acquire the needed cap space for Jimenez, they're still going to go over and if they're going over, might as well go all out.

 

Tseng was considered a top 10 prospect and the best pitcher in this IFA market until his stuff regressed this spring. So the talent/stuff was once there; obviously when a pitcher's stuff goes backwards, there's no guarantee it'll come back and for me, there's always extra concern with teenage Asian arms given the amount of abuse they take as high schoolers.