Cubs after Anibal Sanchez? (Signs with Tiger 5/$80mil)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Kyle: Just curious, in your mind, what needs to be done at this point, to aplease you heading into 2013?

 

"Appease" is such a difficult standard. There's a whole continuum of things I'd like to see happen. The more they do well, the happier I am.

 

Our priorities should be, in order:

 

1) Edwin Jackson (or I guess Marcum, though I'm not a huge fan)

2) The best relief pitcher we can find still out there (Mike Adams?)

3) Figuring out the awkward OF situation, either by getting DeJesus a platoon partner or getting a real starting CFer (Andres Torres?)

4) Filling the infield depth out without resorting to Joe Mather (Good freaking luck. It's awful out there)

5) Getting a second lefty for the bullpen (Howell? Gorzelanny?)

[toonsterwu]

Didn't Torres sign yesterday with the Giants?

[Tracer Bullet]

what on earth is unethical about that?

 

also, i loooove how mad some people are getting about the jokes. they're not crazy funny at this point, but there's some truth there, which i guess is why people flip out and try to shout them down. things aren't going great. it's okay to acknowledge it.

 

Frankly I find the piety to be laudable.

Repetitive tripe is annoying even when you think you're better than everyone else, guys.

 

Clearly, anyone who isn't responding to what is transpiring with acerbic, sarcastic cynicism (as the enlightened do) is an Theo worshiping sucker, Bukie. Any pretense of optimism is a sure sign of indoctrination.

 

You can respond to the disappointment in whatever way you prefer. So can others. What shouldn't happen is the holier than thou BS whining about other people's reaction to the disappointment.

 

Actually, you can't. At least not here. There is a point at which it becomes too much (I'm not necessarily saying we're at that point but you could argue we are).

If you truly believe that TT's responses to some of the drama in this thread is "holier than thou BS whining" then there's simply no hope for you. Asking that every non-event not be met with a hundred overly dramatic posts is not holier than thou nor BS.

[Guest]

The climate the Cubs were in should have been more conducive to finding cheap players, money doesn't matter in this context, and the third part is exactly what we were agreeing on: A major part of Epstein's success in Boston is no longer available to him (the cheap pool of really good, overlooked players).

 

You missed the part about the team's chances of contending. The Cubs are NOWHERE near where Boston was in 2003. Boston had Pedro Martinez and Derek Lowe anchoring their rotation and Nomar, Manny, Damon, Trot Nixon and Jason Varitek as key components on their offense coming back from the 2002 season. Plugging Millar, Mueller, Todd Walker and David Ortiz into that line up just made a solid offense that much better.

 

Who are these Pedro, Lowe, Manny, Damon and Nomar players that the Cubs are returning from the previous year?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Didn't Torres sign yesterday with the Giants?

 

Did he? I was a little preoccupied yesterday. @%@#$%, I really wanted him.

[davell]

Torres went back to SF yesterday for 2 mill, by the way.

[Tracer Bullet]

Can you clarify what you mean when you say Garza was overplayed?

 

Same as all along: The right time to trade him was in the spring of 2012. Holding on and hoping to get more value out of 48 starts to trade than 64 was a sucker's game from day one, and they got burned on the risk they were taking.

 

The Colvin for Stewart deal still makes sense at the time from a positional scarcity perspective.

 

It didn't make sense from a "only employing professional baseball players who are good at baseball" perspective.

 

He sucked last year but we were trying to compete last year so that is not a significant loss.

 

Major League playing time always has value. Significant value. Maybe even more value than money. Wasting half a season of it on a guy who is bad is always a wasted asset.

 

They added Rizzo, signed Johnson and Maholm and swapped them for useful parts. The Cubs weren't in a position where Theo needed to add one or two ML pieces that others had cast off, so I'm not sure they've tried (other than the Maholm and Johnson examples) to make a determination that they've lost something.

 

I'm simply going to have to disagree with the idea that they haven't tried.

 

Your characterization is simply overly dramatic.

 

I would call yours overly apologetic.

 

Interesting since I haven't apologized for anything that the FO has done. I just haven't seen a ton of moves or non-moves worthy of freaking the [expletive] out.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The climate the Cubs were in should have been more conducive to finding cheap players, money doesn't matter in this context, and the third part is exactly what we were agreeing on: A major part of Epstein's success in Boston is no longer available to him (the cheap pool of really good, overlooked players).

 

You missed the part about the team's chances of contending. The Cubs are NOWHERE near where Boston was in 2003. Boston had Pedro Martinez and Derek Lowe anchoring their rotation and Nomar, Manny, Damon, Trot Nixon and Jason Varitek as key components on their offense coming back from the 2002 season. Plugging Millar, Mueller, Todd Walker and David Ortiz into that line up just made a solid offense that much better.

 

Who are these Pedro, Lowe, Manny, Damon and Nomar players that the Cubs are returning from the previous year?

 

I'm genuinely not following you at all. Those players I listed were players they got for virtually nothing because the market undervalued them.

 

When a team is further from contending, they don't need to try to find good, undervalued players on the waiver wire?

[davell]

Yeah, appease may not have been the right word to use there. What about Soriano? Keep him or what kind of return allows you to trade him?

[XZero771679666304]

Kyle: Just curious, in your mind, what needs to be done at this point, to aplease you heading into 2013?

 

"Appease" is such a difficult standard. There's a whole continuum of things I'd like to see happen. The more they do well, the happier I am.

 

Our priorities should be, in order:

 

1) Edwin Jackson (or I guess Marcum, though I'm not a huge fan)

2) The best relief pitcher we can find still out there (Mike Adams?)

3) Figuring out the awkward OF situation, either by getting DeJesus a platoon partner or getting a real starting CFer (Andres Torres?)

4) Filling the infield depth out without resorting to Joe Mather (Good freaking luck. It's awful out there)

5) Getting a second lefty for the bullpen (Howell? Gorzelanny?)

 

It seems like at least the first three are being pursued by the FO. Assuming Valbeuna will back up 3B and 2B (which would allow Barney to back up SS, if need be), what would you suggest for more IF depth?

[USSoccer]

Is there anyone else remotely useful on the market at this point beyond Jackson and Marcum?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It seems like at least the first three are being pursued by the FO. Assuming Valbeuna will back up 3B and 2B (which would allow Barney to back up SS, if need be), what would you suggest for more IF depth?

 

Hell if I know. I was scanning the remaining FA list and it's brutal. I really want a right-handed utility guy who isn't a risk to drop a .550 OPS turd on your season, but those guys are all getting starting SS jobs because there aren't enough to go around.

[Guest]

Is there anyone else remotely useful on the market at this point beyond Jackson and Marcum?

Villanueva and Liriano.

[jersey cubs fan]

If you truly believe that TT's responses to some of the drama in this thread is "holier than thou BS whining" then there's simply no hope for you. Asking that every non-event not be met with a hundred overly dramatic posts is not holier than thou nor BS.

 

The Cubs getting close to signing and then losing out on a major free agent isn't a non-event.

 

And where was the drama? It's a message board for discussing a professional sports team. None of us should care at all about anything they do, but the fact is we do care or else we wouldn't spend any time on here in the first place. If you want to ban sarcastic comments that express the disappointment in seeing your team fail to improve then go right ahead. I don't see the point of such an endeavor.

 

 

"No hope for you."

 

Again with the piety. So impressive.

[davell]

Freddie Sanchez, coming off the injury, may be my favorite backup type left. Maybe we can get one thats not ridiculously horrible as a 2nd or 3rd piece in a trade somehow.

[Guest]

Is there anyone else remotely useful on the market at this point beyond Jackson and Marcum?

 

Liriano. Bourn too if you weren't just wondering about SP. There's a few relievers of interest too but no one that makes you take notice.

[toonsterwu]

As for next move, I'm of the opinion that ... we sort of wait (unless the deal is too good to not do it). There tends to be a few guys that over-play their FA hands each year and end up taking short term deals. At this stage, who really excites people out there in terms of a long-term deal? Edwin Jackson has flashes of brilliance, and then he has flashes of "WTF!" outings. Do I want to give 4-5 years for him? Not really. If we can get Marcum on a 2 year deal, I'd much rather take that. Maybe Liriano doesn't get his long term deal and takes a short term prove it deal. I wonder if someone from the remaining OF's (guys like Hairston/Ross) end up settling for a one year deal. Maybe you take some injury gambles. Is Grady Sizemore still out there? If so, why not?

 

Moreover, now that Hamilton and the big fish are signed, we can sit back and see if the trade markets open up a bit. Maybe a team revisits Soriano now that there isn't that much power left on the market. Maybe a team dangles an excess SP (Dodgers come to mind). I guess the popular trade idea right now is trading Marmol to the Tigers for a SP, but I'm just not sure that the Marmol market is there right now, not with enough key FA pen arms available.

 

Short of it is, I just don't see anyone I really want to jump on with multiple years. Sanchez made sense. Maybe Jackson, but I'm just not enthused about him.

[USSoccer]

Is there anyone else remotely useful on the market at this point beyond Jackson and Marcum?

 

Liriano. Bourn too if you weren't just wondering about SP. There's a few relievers of interest too but no one that makes you take notice.

 

Forgot about Liriano. One of he or Jackson would be a nice thing.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is there anyone else remotely useful on the market at this point beyond Jackson and Marcum?

 

Liriano. Bourn too if you weren't just wondering about SP. There's a few relievers of interest too but no one that makes you take notice.

 

I, for one, would like to see a bat or three. The focus on the pitching is great and all but I'd like to see this team get back out of the gutter when it comes to run production.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I, for one, would like to see a bat or three. The focus on the pitching is great and all but I'd like to see this team get back out of the gutter when it comes to run production.

 

Unless you like Bourn, who's value is just as much defensive as offensive, there aren't any bats left. The offense for 2013 is pretty much doomed.

[USSoccer]

Is there anyone else remotely useful on the market at this point beyond Jackson and Marcum?

 

Liriano. Bourn too if you weren't just wondering about SP. There's a few relievers of interest too but no one that makes you take notice.

 

I, for one, would like to see a bat or three. The focus on the pitching is great and all but I'd like to see this team get back out of the gutter when it comes to run production.

 

Unless it's coming by trade it's pretty much Bourn and the island of misfit players. Bourn has some intriguing things about him but starting pitching is probably the best way to improve the team right now.

Edited December 14, 2012 by USSoccer

[Guest]

I'm genuinely not following you at all. Those players I listed were players they got for virtually nothing because the market undervalued them.

 

When a team is further from contending, they don't need to try to find good, undervalued players on the waiver wire?

 

Those undervalued players they were picking up on the cheap back then were being signed to play for a team that at that time was a perennial playoff caliber team. The difference between signing a deal on the cheap for a team like that and signing the same deal for a rebuilding team like the Cubs is night and day.

[davell]

Marcum said yesterday his goal is to sign with a contender. Sizemore's not going to be ready to go until close to midseason. The demand is still far outweighing the supply right now. Ross has 3 year deals out there and is trying to get a 4th, I think. It's not a pretty picture.

[mul21]

Is there anyone else remotely useful on the market at this point beyond Jackson and Marcum?

 

Liriano. Bourn too if you weren't just wondering about SP. There's a few relievers of interest too but no one that makes you take notice.

 

I, for one, would like to see a bat or three. The focus on the pitching is great and all but I'd like to see this team get back out of the gutter when it comes to run production.

 

This is what concerns me the most. If they do trade Soriano, there's huge hole in an already not that good offense.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm genuinely not following you at all. Those players I listed were players they got for virtually nothing because the market undervalued them.

 

When a team is further from contending, they don't need to try to find good, undervalued players on the waiver wire?

 

Those undervalued players they were picking up on the cheap back then were being signed to play for a team that at that time was a perennial playoff caliber team. The difference between signing a deal on the cheap for a team like that and signing the same deal for a rebuilding team like the Cubs is night and day.

 

Some of them were waiver pickups, some of them were nearly minimum free agents who had no other options, one was a purchased contract from another team.

 

They were the equivalent of Camp, LaHair, Stewart, Valbuena, Cardenas, etc. last season. We tried the same thing. We just got much different results.

 

I'm genuinely not seeing the difference you are seeing in terms of why the Cubs not being a contender would mean their waiver-wire and cheap pickups should be different.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Hairyducked Idiot