College Football - Bowl Games

[bukie]

ND has both the most obnoxious fans and the most obnoxious haters. That is why college football is more interesting when ND is good. Both the fans and the haters care more, and the rest of us can enjoy the conflict. Plus, it makes the media's job easy.

[Andy]

if teo became the first defender to win the award, we might as well just stop caring about it (if anyone still does in the first place.) I know LBs are sort of getting phased out of college football, but god he just seems so forgettable most of the time.

Don't worry...the anti-ND bias in the media will prevent him from becoming one of the highest finishing pure defenders ever.

 

Still waiting for all those pro-ND media members you were touting.

 

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser, who I have heard on multiple occasions say that college football is better if Notre Dame is good and that if Notre Dame went undefeated (this was when Bama, Oregon and KSt were undefeated) that they should be in the title game no questions asked. There's two prominent ones. I'm sure there are plenty others.

Well, Wilbon has said several times he hates ND (and Michigan, though he says he also respects both). Then again, Wilbon picked Manti to win the Heisman yesterday over Manziel, so it clearly doesn't affect him much.

[Guest]

if teo became the first defender to win the award, we might as well just stop caring about it (if anyone still does in the first place.) I know LBs are sort of getting phased out of college football, but god he just seems so forgettable most of the time.

Don't worry...the anti-ND bias in the media will prevent him from becoming one of the highest finishing pure defenders ever.

 

Still waiting for all those pro-ND media members you were touting.

You made the idiotic statement that the anti-ND bias in the media will hurt Te'o's heisman campaign. This is in the face of the fact that a defense-only player with fairly pedestrian stats is set to become one of the 2-3 highest finishers in the heisman of all time.

 

Unless you feel the rest of the field is monumentally and historically weak or you feel that Te'o is easily one of the best collegiate defenders of all time, your position is pure rubbish.

 

I have no burden of proof to call you out on logical fallacy. The evidence that I'm right is that Te'o is already named as one of the three finalists. There is no grand anti-ND conspiracy in the media and it isn't preventing him from winning the heisman.

[Soul]

There's Golic. Theismann before he left the booth. Holtz.

 

It's kind of true, though, there's not a huge pro-ND contingent in the media. But a lot of people like it when ND is good, for reasons already stated.

 

Even though I'm not an ND fan, I admit that I'm excited to see them in the big game.

[KingCubsFan]

if teo became the first defender to win the award, we might as well just stop caring about it (if anyone still does in the first place.) I know LBs are sort of getting phased out of college football, but god he just seems so forgettable most of the time.

Don't worry...the anti-ND bias in the media will prevent him from becoming one of the highest finishing pure defenders ever.

 

Still waiting for all those pro-ND media members you were touting.

You made the idiotic statement that the anti-ND bias in the media will hurt Te'o's heisman campaign. This is in the face of the fact that a defense-only player with fairly pedestrian stats is set to become one of the 2-3 highest finishers in the heisman of all time.

 

Unless you feel the rest of the field is monumentally and historically weak or you feel that Te'o is easily one of the best collegiate defenders of all time, your position is pure rubbish.

 

I have no burden of proof to call you out on logical fallacy. The evidence that I'm right is that Te'o is already named as one of the three finalists. There is no grand anti-ND conspiracy in the media and it isn't preventing him from winning the heisman.

Manziel is now projected to win by one of the largest margins in history. The fact that Te'o (the best player on the #1 team in the nation that just so happens to have the best defense in the nation) really doesn't say much.

[KingCubsFan]

There's Golic. Theismann before he left the booth. Holtz.

 

It's kind of true, though, there's not a huge pro-ND contingent in the media. But a lot of people like it when ND is good, for reasons already stated.

 

Even though I'm not an ND fan, I admit that I'm excited to see them in the big game.

That's like saying there's a pro-Cubs media contingent and citing Ernie Banks, Ron Santo and some guy who played for the Cubs and has two kids on the current team.

[Guest]

There's Golic. Theismann before he left the booth. Holtz.

 

It's kind of true, though, there's not a huge pro-ND contingent in the media. But a lot of people like it when ND is good, for reasons already stated.

 

Even though I'm not an ND fan, I admit that I'm excited to see them in the big game.

That's like saying there's a pro-Cubs media contingent and citing Ernie Banks, Ron Santo and some guy who played for the Cubs and has two kids on the current team.

The original assertion by MR was that there was an anti-ND bias in the media and NOBODY was pro-ND. Which is ludicrous when there are immediate and obvious examples out there who went to ND and live and breathe ND on the air all the time.

[Andy]

Manziel is now projected to win by one of the largest margins in history.

That's not so much because of some grand conspiracy as because the Heisman has been ESPNized. Almost every year now someone wins by a gigantic margin because ESPN has taken to spending the last month or so of the season pimping somebody as the front-runner. The only times in recent years that haven't brought a giant margin are years like 2009 where literally no one stands out at all (except Suh, who was robbed, but whatever).

[Guest]

Manziel is now projected to win by one of the largest margins in history.

That's not so much because of some grand conspiracy as because the Heisman has been ESPNized. Almost every year now someone wins by a gigantic margin because ESPN has taken to spending the last month or so of the season pimping somebody as the front-runner. The only times in recent years that haven't brought a giant margin are years like 2009 where literally no one stands out at all (except Suh, who was robbed, but whatever).

Suh stands a good example of a much more dominant college player who couldn't reach the top three in the heisman. But Te'o is being held back because of the anti-ND bias.

 

Right.

[Tracer Bullet]

if teo became the first defender to win the award, we might as well just stop caring about it (if anyone still does in the first place.) I know LBs are sort of getting phased out of college football, but god he just seems so forgettable most of the time.

Don't worry...the anti-ND bias in the media will prevent him from becoming one of the highest finishing pure defenders ever.

 

Still waiting for all those pro-ND media members you were touting.

 

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser, who I have heard on multiple occasions say that college football is better if Notre Dame is good and that if Notre Dame went undefeated (this was when Bama, Oregon and KSt were undefeated) that they should be in the title game no questions asked. There's two prominent ones. I'm sure there are plenty others.

 

Lots of media folks want ND to be good bc it means more eyeballs. What you reference isn't pro ND any more than saying two other undefeated teams should be in ahead of ND is anti-ND. The stuff I posted yesterday from Mariotti and Embrem with their attacks on ND is what I'm talking about when I say anti-ND bias. Being neutral isn't bias either way.

 

But Wilbon has been pretty anti-ND for some time. He's also a NW guy, so that not surprising. Google Wilbon and ND and the first two links are his article attacking ND for firing Willingham and a chat in which he accepts and answers several questions about ND including that he loves watching ND lose, it's been overrated for 20 years and Kelly is a blowhard. Again, ND doesn't need any more of this favorable bias.

[Andy]

Manziel is now projected to win by one of the largest margins in history.

That's not so much because of some grand conspiracy as because the Heisman has been ESPNized. Almost every year now someone wins by a gigantic margin because ESPN has taken to spending the last month or so of the season pimping somebody as the front-runner. The only times in recent years that haven't brought a giant margin are years like 2009 where literally no one stands out at all (except Suh, who was robbed, but whatever).

Suh stands a good example of a much more dominant college player who couldn't reach the top three in the heisman. But Te'o is being held back because of the anti-ND bias.

 

Right.

I was actually going to add to that post that if Suh, who clearly had a more dominant season than Manti did, couldn't get it then obviously Manti won't. I think if Suh had won that year, Manti would have a better shot.

 

I do think Te'o's effect on games is being undervalued because he doesn't have many sacks or TFL's in a defense specifically designed so that he won't get them, though. If ND didn't have a good front four, Te'o would have much better numbers in the 'sexier' categories. (Of course, if they didn't have a good front four, they wouldn't be 12-0 either.)

[Tracer Bullet]

There's Golic. Theismann before he left the booth. Holtz.

 

It's kind of true, though, there's not a huge pro-ND contingent in the media. But a lot of people like it when ND is good, for reasons already stated.

 

Even though I'm not an ND fan, I admit that I'm excited to see them in the big game.

That's like saying there's a pro-Cubs media contingent and citing Ernie Banks, Ron Santo and some guy who played for the Cubs and has two kids on the current team.

The original assertion by MR was that there was an anti-ND bias in the media and NOBODY was pro-ND. Which is ludicrous when there are immediate and obvious examples out there who went to ND and live and breathe ND on the air all the time.

 

You can say it as many times as you want but it doesn't make it true. What I said was that the anti-ND bias was harming Te'o (see, again, guys like Mariotti not even putting him on the ballot and writing an article attacking ND). I have said multiple times that a pro-ND bias also exists in pockets. The reason I ask for examples, as I've also said, is that I think people have false presumptions about this large pro-ND contingent that hasn't existed in 30+ years. The Wilbon example is a great one.

 

The fact is, any time a media member says anything positive about ND, many people immediately assume it's bc that media person has a pro-ND bias. It doesn't take much digging to discover that isn't true. But most people, including you, don't want to take the time to analyze their own bias. That's fine, but I'm not an idiot for asking you to do so.

[Tracer Bullet]

Manziel is now projected to win by one of the largest margins in history.

That's not so much because of some grand conspiracy as because the Heisman has been ESPNized. Almost every year now someone wins by a gigantic margin because ESPN has taken to spending the last month or so of the season pimping somebody as the front-runner. The only times in recent years that haven't brought a giant margin are years like 2009 where literally no one stands out at all (except Suh, who was robbed, but whatever).

Suh stands a good example of a much more dominant college player who couldn't reach the top three in the heisman. But Te'o is being held back because of the anti-ND bias.

 

Right.

I was actually going to add to that post that if Suh, who clearly had a more dominant season than Manti did, couldn't get it then obviously Manti won't. I think if Suh had won that year, Manti would have a better shot.

 

I do think Te'o's effect on games is being undervalued because he doesn't have many sacks or TFL's in a defense specifically designed so that he won't get them, though. If ND didn't have a good front four, Te'o would have much better numbers in the 'sexier' categories. (Of course, if they didn't have a good front four, they wouldn't be 12-0 either.)

 

The fact that his near-record picks are being ignored and that his relative lack of sacks in a defense in which he doesn't blitz are being held up against him is sort of stupid. Also, Suh is widely considered among the dirtiest players in the game, which may not have helped.

[SouthSideRyan]

Manziel is now projected to win by one of the largest margins in history.

That's not so much because of some grand conspiracy as because the Heisman has been ESPNized. Almost every year now someone wins by a gigantic margin because ESPN has taken to spending the last month or so of the season pimping somebody as the front-runner. The only times in recent years that haven't brought a giant margin are years like 2009 where literally no one stands out at all (except Suh, who was robbed, but whatever).

Suh stands a good example of a much more dominant college player who couldn't reach the top three in the heisman. But Te'o is being held back because of the anti-ND bias.

 

Right.

 

NEBRASKA WAS [expletive] 9-4

[bukie]

ND's Brian Kelly wins coach of the year, and ND's Tyler Eifert wins the John Mackey award, for best TE of the year.

[bukie]

Manziel is now projected to win by one of the largest margins in history.

That's not so much because of some grand conspiracy as because the Heisman has been ESPNized. Almost every year now someone wins by a gigantic margin because ESPN has taken to spending the last month or so of the season pimping somebody as the front-runner. The only times in recent years that haven't brought a giant margin are years like 2009 where literally no one stands out at all (except Suh, who was robbed, but whatever).

Suh stands a good example of a much more dominant college player who couldn't reach the top three in the heisman. But Te'o is being held back because of the anti-ND bias.

 

Right.

 

NEBRASKA WAS [expletive] 9-4

Yeah, Suh probably wins the award if Nebraska wins the Big 12 that year. His competition was Mark Ingram, Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, and Tim Tebow.

Edited December 5, 2012 by bukie

[Tracer Bullet]

ND's Brian Kelly wins coach of the year, and ND's Tyler Eifert wins the John Mackey award, for best TE of the year.

 

Coach of the #1 team that started the year unranked and widely believed highest draft pick TE win awards? More pro-ND bias obviously. Can't be merit.

[bukie]

ND's Brian Kelly wins coach of the year, and ND's Tyler Eifert wins the John Mackey award, for best TE of the year.

 

Coach of the #1 team that started the year unranked and widely believed hugest draft pick TE win awards? More pro-ND bias obviously. Can't be merit.

Why isn't Eifert considered ND's best player?

[UMFan83]

if teo became the first defender to win the award, we might as well just stop caring about it (if anyone still does in the first place.) I know LBs are sort of getting phased out of college football, but god he just seems so forgettable most of the time.

Don't worry...the anti-ND bias in the media will prevent him from becoming one of the highest finishing pure defenders ever.

 

Still waiting for all those pro-ND media members you were touting.

 

Lou Holtz, Digger Phelps, Michael Golic?

 

I'm jumping into this convo without knowing anything about it so don't mind me.

 

Please don't. You bitch about me discussing ND 2 days ago and then jump into a discussion with frankly a stupid addition.

 

And I didn't bitch at you for discussing ND, just for flying off the handle whenever ND haters riled you up.

[Tracer Bullet]

ND's Brian Kelly wins coach of the year, and ND's Tyler Eifert wins the John Mackey award, for best TE of the year.

 

Coach of the #1 team that started the year unranked and widely believed hugest draft pick TE win awards? More pro-ND bias obviously. Can't be merit.

Why isn't Eifert considered ND's best player?

 

Offensively he is. If not for Te'o and the fact that ND won many games by scoring 10 points and then daring other teams to score, he would be. He was told last year that he needed to improve his blocking to improve his draft stock and he did. Spent much of the year on the line blocking and setting the edge, which killed his TD numbers.

[Tracer Bullet]

if teo became the first defender to win the award, we might as well just stop caring about it (if anyone still does in the first place.) I know LBs are sort of getting phased out of college football, but god he just seems so forgettable most of the time.

Don't worry...the anti-ND bias in the media will prevent him from becoming one of the highest finishing pure defenders ever.

 

Still waiting for all those pro-ND media members you were touting.

 

Lou Holtz, Digger Phelps, Michael Golic?

 

I'm jumping into this convo without knowing anything about it so don't mind me.

 

Please don't. You bitch about me discussing ND 2 days ago and then jump into a discussion with frankly a stupid addition.

 

And I didn't bitch at you for discussing ND, just for flying off the handle whenever ND haters riled you up.

 

Don't assume that everyone that posts here shares your crazy angry reactions. At no point has my blood pressure increased or have I been throwing things in anger. I'm mostly laughing at some pretty dumb comments.

[SouthSideRyan]

ND's Brian Kelly wins coach of the year, and ND's Tyler Eifert wins the John Mackey award, for best TE of the year.

 

Coach of the #1 team that started the year unranked and widely believed hugest draft pick TE win awards? More pro-ND bias obviously. Can't be merit.

Why isn't Eifert considered ND's best player?

 

Because he's a TE

[UMFan83]

Still waiting for all those pro-ND media members you were touting.

 

Lou Holtz, Digger Phelps, Michael Golic?

 

I'm jumping into this convo without knowing anything about it so don't mind me.

 

Please don't. You bitch about me discussing ND 2 days ago and then jump into a discussion with frankly a stupid addition.

 

And I didn't bitch at you for discussing ND, just for flying off the handle whenever ND haters riled you up.

 

Don't assume that everyone that posts here shares your crazy angry reactions. At no point has my blood pressure increased or have I been throwing things in anger. I'm mostly laughing at some pretty dumb comments.

 

You have a weird way of showing your level headedness then because half the posts about college football this year are you responding to every anti-ND quote as if its your duty to defend the honor of ND. You certainly approach things differently than Andy.

 

Anyways, this is getting much farther than I ever intended it to go. I respect you as a poster and think you are a valuable member here, I just couldn't resist making a snide remark about how frustrated it seemed you were getting whenever ND was brought up. Didn't mean to start a war/burn a bridge with you.

[SpongeWorthy]

MR has moved into the "dance puppets dance!" portion of the thread

[Tracer Bullet]

 

You have a weird way of showing your level headedness then because half the posts about college football this year are you responding to every anti-ND quote as if its your duty to defend the honor of ND. You certainly approach things differently than Andy.

 

Anyways, this is getting much farther than I ever intended it to go. I respect you as a poster and think you are a valuable member here, I just couldn't resist making a snide remark about how frustrated it seemed you were getting whenever ND was brought up. Didn't mean to start a war/burn a bridge with you.

 

Yes, I respond much differently than andy. That we're both nd fans is about as far as the similarities go. It may seem as though I've responded to every post about ND but that's not actually true. I largely let abuck have his fun without bothering to address it (at least not directly). Didn't respond to imb's posts about Te'o. Have ignored several bitter little comments from sponge whose just mad that Laney is still around.

 

Often the discussion is interesting to me, but so many people hate ND (yes Careless, I realize this is 100% my fault; I do have a lot of influence), whenever it comes up the shots start flying from everywhere. Now that they're #1 and winning awards again, it'll get worse. I try to pick my battles at times, but some posters seem to want to ignore the actual content of my posts in favor of their spin on them. Admittedly that will lead to more drawn out discussions.