The 2012 Offseason Thread

[KingCubsFan]

Last few years? How long has the current FO been in charge?

 

2007. Pittsburgh has been throwing money at prospects for much longer than that. They just suck at it.

No they haven't. They used to take guys like Bryan Bullington over BJ Upton for signability reasons. The new front office has spent big on guys like Alvarez, Taillon, etc.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Last few years? How long has the current FO been in charge?

 

2007. Pittsburgh has been throwing money at prospects for much longer than that. They just suck at it.

No they haven't. They used to take guys like Bryan Bullington over BJ Upton for signability reasons. The new front office has spent big on guys like Alvarez, Taillon, etc.

So then it doesn't hurt the Pirates?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It forces the Pirates to reinvent one strategy, that was on its way out in terms of usefulness anyway.

[Cubswin11]

It forces the Pirates to reinvent one strategy, that was on its way out in terms of usefulness anyway.

So is that a plan or a goal?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It forces the Pirates to reinvent one strategy, that was on its way out in terms of usefulness anyway.

So is that a plan or a goal?

 

When they do it, it's a hopeless goal. When we do it, it's an inevitable plan.

[Cubswin11]

Good news for the NL Central, the Brewers just signed Yuni B back to a major league contract.

[toonsterwu]

A total random comment out of LF, but the Yankees just released David Adams. While we have absolutely zero need at 2nd base, I wouldn't mind adding him, putting him in AA, and just giving it a twirl. He's a good hitter with some pop. Then you could keep Torreyes in A+, and DeVoss can just be ... another guy somewhere.

[davell]

I'm perfectly OK with picking up Adams, but see no reason at all not to put him in AAA(.306/.385/.450 in 86 AA games last year and turns 26 in May). Torreyes did enough in my mind to warrant a promotion to AA.

[toonsterwu]

I'm perfectly OK with picking up Adams, but see no reason at all not to put him in AAA(.306/.385/.450 in 86 AA games last year and turns 26 in May). Torreyes did enough in my mind to warrant a promotion to AA.

 

I'm not really on-board with a Torreyes promotion (he had 2 hot months and 2 cold months, along with one horrid month that I'll toss aside because it was so extreme ... I think people forget that Torreyes struggled in August), but I obviously can see that happening and wouldn't necessarily be against it. Only reason I suggest AA is because Logan Watkins will likely be the guy at 2nd in AAA, and if two guys are close, teams tend to give their homegrown guy the nod for the higher level. That said, they could have Logan handle some short along with 2nd, and move Adams to multiple spots.

 

Anyhow, I don't really anticipate us adding Adams, just a random thought.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Good news for the NL Central, the Brewers just signed Yuni B back to a major league contract.

 

It's a good thing the Brewers grabbed him before Theo realized that he was Cuban.

[Smack]

Good news for the NL Central, the Brewers just signed Yuni B back to a major league contract.

 

It's a good thing the Brewers grabbed him before Theo realized that he was Cuban.

 

haha, the Berwers are going to have Betancourt and Gonzalez stealing starts from Segura...

[Banedon]

@Cubs

 

#Cubs today claimed RHP Guillermo Moscoso off waivers from the Blue Jays. RHP Arodys Vizcaino has been placed on the 60-day DL.

[davell]

Cards give Wainwright 5/97.5 extension. If we try to extend Garza at any point, he should definitely come in under this.

[mookie]

You think?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I continue to be torn between the fact that I really don't want to extend an injury-prone pitcher like Garza, and knowing that if we don't we have absolutely nothing to replace him and there is absolutely nothing on the FA market.

[davell]

I continue to be torn between the fact that I really don't want to extend an injury-prone pitcher like Garza, and knowing that if we don't we have absolutely nothing to replace him and there is absolutely nothing on the FA market.

If Baker(obviously a huge if) can come back and show he's healthy, he could conceivably replace Garza, if we deal him, or figure he's never going to be healthy. If not, you've got question marks all over the place. The best FA will be Hughes, Johnson, Hammel, Halladay, and Haren. Overseas, we may see Takada get posted and we likely will see Suk Min Yoon come over from Korea. That said, maybe we'll have Appel, who could become a Garza for us as soon as 2015. Or trade for Price, which would be ideal.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I continue to be torn between the fact that I really don't want to extend an injury-prone pitcher like Garza, and knowing that if we don't we have absolutely nothing to replace him and there is absolutely nothing on the FA market.

If Baker(obviously a huge if) can come back and show he's healthy, he could conceivably replace Garza, if we deal him, or figure he's never going to be healthy. If not, you've got question marks all over the place. The best FA will be Hughes, Johnson, Hammel, Halladay, and Haren. Overseas, we may see Takada get posted and we likely will see Suk Min Yoon come over from Korea. That said, maybe we'll have Appel, who could become a Garza for us as soon as 2015. Or trade for Price, which would be ideal.

 

So there's like *maybe* half-a-dozen useful starting pitchers we can list, and some of them are decript and their shoulders or elbows are about to explode inside their arms. And there's still plenty of time for contract extensions.

 

It's amazing that we could sign Jackson, develop Samardzija, trade for Wood and our medium-term rotation outlook still needs a ton of work.

[davell]

Well, Hendry left nothing. I think you're overstating things though. Our medium term rotation needs are strictly replacing Garza. We could go into next year with Shark/E-Jax/Wood/Villanueva all set, Vizcaino as a,legit possibility, FA options, and trade possibilities, with Baker, Feldman, and Garza all being options too. Its not a ton of work though. A TOR guy is needed. About 20 teams in baseball can say the same thing. And quite a few of them need more than just that.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

Cards give Wainwright 5/97.5 extension. If we try to extend Garza at any point, he should definitely come in under this.

 

Isn't this a pretty damn good deal for the {redacted}? I mean, the Tigers just gave Anibal Sanchez 5/80, right?

[SouthSideRyan]

Well, Hendry left nothing. I think you're overstating things though. Our medium term rotation needs are strictly replacing Garza. We could go into next year with Shark/E-Jax/Wood/Villanueva all set, Vizcaino as a,legit possibility, FA options, and trade possibilities, with Baker, Feldman, and Garza all being options too. Its not a ton of work though. A TOR guy is needed. About 20 teams in baseball can say the same thing. And quite a few of them need more than just that.

 

You named 8 guys in that post and 4 of them were either here from Hendry or were acquired from Hendry pieces. I don't know why just because we've chosen to go down this route, people have to change what they were saying 18 months ago about the status of the franchise.

[Guest]

Cards give Wainwright 5/97.5 extension. If we try to extend Garza at any point, he should definitely come in under this.

 

Isn't this a pretty damn good deal for the {redacted}? I mean, the Tigers just gave Anibal Sanchez 5/80, right?

 

If Wainwright doesn't miss a season's worth of time I doubt they'll have huge regrets, but Wainwright's injury history is far from clean and he's 32 this year, so they're taking on their share of risk. To compare with a teammate that has a similar background, Chris Carpenter missed his age 28 season with TJS(Wainwright missed age 29). The 5 years starting with his age 31 season, he threw 670 IP and accumulated 13.7 fWAR. Very good when healthy, but not healthy as much as you'd like.

[SABR Gamer]

Well, Hendry left nothing. I think you're overstating things though. Our medium term rotation needs are strictly replacing Garza. We could go into next year with Shark/E-Jax/Wood/Villanueva all set, Vizcaino as a,legit possibility, FA options, and trade possibilities, with Baker, Feldman, and Garza all being options too. Its not a ton of work though. A TOR guy is needed. About 20 teams in baseball can say the same thing. And quite a few of them need more than just that.

 

You named 8 guys in that post and 4 of them were either here from Hendry or were acquired from Hendry pieces. I don't know why just because we've chosen to go down this route, people have to change what they were saying 18 months ago about the status of the franchise.

 

I think only 3 of them were either here or acquired from Hendry pieces (Shark, Wood, Garza). Vizcaino was only Theo pieces. Reed was resigned by Theo, that doesn't count as a Hendry piece since he could have let him walk. Maholm was also Theo.

[SouthSideRyan]

Whoops, mixed up the original Dempster trade with the eventual Braves trade.

[mul21]

Cards give Wainwright 5/97.5 extension. If we try to extend Garza at any point, he should definitely come in under this.

 

Isn't this a pretty damn good deal for the {redacted}? I mean, the Tigers just gave Anibal Sanchez 5/80, right?

 

If Wainwright doesn't miss a season's worth of time I doubt they'll have huge regrets, but Wainwright's injury history is far from clean and he's 32 this year, so they're taking on their share of risk. To compare with a teammate that has a similar background, Chris Carpenter missed his age 28 season with TJS(Wainwright missed age 29). The 5 years starting with his age 31 season, he threw 670 IP and accumulated 13.7 fWAR. Very good when healthy, but not healthy as much as you'd like.

 

I don't think you can really compare Wainwright and Carpenter since one had a relatively commonly successful elbow surgery and Carpenter came back from a much less frequently successful shoulder surgery. Also, Wainwright had problems with the elbow for years before the complete tear and was very effective. Given how well he came back in his first season after TJS and didn't seem to have any lingering effects from it, I don't think he's any more of a risk than signing any pitcher to a $20M/year deal would be.

[Guest]

Didn't realize that Carpenter's injury was a shoulder one. Either way though, injuries beget injuries, especially in post-prime players as their bodies become less resilient. Carpenter threw only 21 IP over 2 years in that timeframe I cited, so Wainwright could be twice as "durable" and still end up missing a lot of time. Or maybe he suffers death by a thousand cuts and just becomes ineffective with extra wear and tear. Or maybe he throws 1200 IP at 5 WAR/year. The point was that it's a worthwhile deal for the Cardinals to make, but it's not a runaway steal because of the dollars, years, injury risk, and age.