College Football - Week 12 (Nov. 17)

[Guest]

Looks like I'm rooting for

 

-Notre Dame loss

-Oregon beating Oregon State

-UCLA beating Stanford next week

-Oregon beating UCLA in the Pac-12 title game

[TruffleShuffle]

ugh worst title game ever.

 

i dunno, it will still be fun watching notre dame lose.

[Andy]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

[Old Style]

Can we stop with this foolish Collin Klein Heisman talk now?

[Sosa21MVP]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

 

That is a cool story, I'd keep my money on Bama if that game occurs.

[Andy]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

 

That is a cool story, I'd keep my money on Bama if that game occurs.

Oh, I'm not telling you you're wrong to think Bama would win the game. The next time it makes sense to bet against Saban in a big game will be the first. Just don't expect ND to get 'spanked'.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'm interested to see how many #1 votes Bama gets

[Guest]

Haha, so Alabama, Georgia and Florida will be 2-4 for sure. Wonder if LSU sneaks into the top 5.

 

If Stanford beats UCLA next week, Oregon won't even make the Pac-12 championship game.

[Guest]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

 

It seems really odd to use close wins to poor teams as reason to discredit someone on Alabama's schedule in an attempt to make a relative comparison to Notre Dame.

[Andy]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

 

It seems really odd to use close wins to poor teams as reason to discredit someone on Alabama's schedule in an attempt to make a relative comparison to Notre Dame.

Alabama's played three teams that could be described as 'not crappy' this year, struggled with one, creamed one and lost to one. The narrative of Alabama as an invincible force of college football when their most recent FBS game was a home loss to a team that was a middle-tier Big 12 team last season needs to be discredited, even if it means making a comparison you find odd.

[Guest]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

 

It seems really odd to use close wins to poor teams as reason to discredit someone on Alabama's schedule in an attempt to make a relative comparison to Notre Dame.

Alabama's played three teams that could be described as 'not crappy' this year, struggled with one, creamed one and lost to one. The narrative of Alabama as an invincible force of college football when their most recent FBS game was a home loss to a team that was a middle-tier Big 12 team last season needs to be discredited, even if it means making a comparison you find odd.

 

It's not narrative that has Alabama the head and shoulders #1 in Sagarin's Predictor, or their SOS the best of any title contender save Florida. If the point is one of "any given Saturday", or "Alabama's not invincible", I don't think that's one that anyone's arguing against. If the point is that Alabama is equal or less worthy than the alternatives(especially since their title game appearance is dependent on beating UGA), then I think you're reaching in backlash to their reputation.

[Flames24Rulz]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

 

It seems really odd to use close wins to poor teams as reason to discredit someone on Alabama's schedule in an attempt to make a relative comparison to Notre Dame.

Alabama's played three teams that could be described as 'not crappy' this year, struggled with one, creamed one and lost to one. The narrative of Alabama as an invincible force of college football when their most recent FBS game was a home loss to a team that was a middle-tier Big 12 team last season needs to be discredited, even if it means making a comparison you find odd.

 

I don't disagree with you about Alabama, but why would you use last year to discredit A&M? Last year doesn't have anything to do with them this year, especially when their best player wasn't even on their team last year. Oh, and he's the best player in college football too this season.

[Andy]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

 

It seems really odd to use close wins to poor teams as reason to discredit someone on Alabama's schedule in an attempt to make a relative comparison to Notre Dame.

Alabama's played three teams that could be described as 'not crappy' this year, struggled with one, creamed one and lost to one. The narrative of Alabama as an invincible force of college football when their most recent FBS game was a home loss to a team that was a middle-tier Big 12 team last season needs to be discredited, even if it means making a comparison you find odd.

 

It's not narrative that has Alabama the head and shoulders #1 in Sagarin's Predictor, or their SOS the best of any title contender save Florida. If the point is one of "any given Saturday", or "Alabama's not invincible", I don't think that's one that anyone's arguing against. If the point is that Alabama is equal or less worthy than the alternatives(especially since their title game appearance is dependent on beating UGA), then I think you're reaching in backlash to their reputation.

Why would I argue that Bama ought not to be in the title game if they beat Auburn and Georgia? They're a terrific football team, and they'll have earned it. I'm just tired of hearing about how much better the SEC and Alabama are than anyone else in the country, about what a tragedy it would have been if the SEC streak had ended without them playing in the title game, and on and on.

[Andy]

I don't disagree with you about Alabama, but why would you use last year to discredit A&M? Last year doesn't have anything to do with them this year, especially when their best player wasn't even on their team last year. Oh, and he's the best player in college football too this season.

I'm not trying to put down A&M's 2012 team. Just saying, if Texas A&M can come into the SEC after years of being a solid but unspectacular Big 12 program and come within a few missed FGs against LSU of playing for the conference title in year 1, maybe the college football viewing public and media should cool their jets a bit about the SEC being head and shoulders above everybody else.

 

ETA - I'm starting to realize that I'm kind of preaching to the choir on that topic, so I'll refrain from beating it into the ground.

[Guest]

 

http://i.imgur.com/3DYGZ.gif

 

 

It appears Les Miles is good for one awesome GIF per weekend.

[Tracer Bullet]

So we get to watch ND get spanked by Bama now? Meh.

Alabama has 2 good wins this season, 1 over a team that damn near lost to Ole Miss today and got taken well into the 2nd half by FCS Towson, and the other to a team ND also beat.

 

It seems really odd to use close wins to poor teams as reason to discredit someone on Alabama's schedule in an attempt to make a relative comparison to Notre Dame.

Alabama's played three teams that could be described as 'not crappy' this year, struggled with one, creamed one and lost to one. The narrative of Alabama as an invincible force of college football when their most recent FBS game was a home loss to a team that was a middle-tier Big 12 team last season needs to be discredited, even if it means making a comparison you find odd.

 

It's not narrative that has Alabama the head and shoulders #1 in Sagarin's Predictor, or their SOS the best of any title contender save Florida. If the point is one of "any given Saturday", or "Alabama's not invincible", I don't think that's one that anyone's arguing against. If the point is that Alabama is equal or less worthy than the alternatives(especially since their title game appearance is dependent on beating UGA), then I think you're reaching in backlash to their reputation.

 

Pretty soon here, we're going to have to start accepting that Saragrin isn't god. I know he's telling you that his data is unbiased now, but why do you believe him? Did KSU look like the #1 team in the country? What big 12 team has beaten any quality team outside its conference? Is there a single OOC win against any team that is among the 50 best in CFB? How do you know if KSU is good when they haven't beaten any team that's actually beaten a good team? Even playing and losing a close game to a quality team OOC would be something, but the big 12 has nothing.

 

Bama has the best schedule of any title contender? This is the team that just played a team 2 weeks after its Southern Conf schedule ended. The team with that brutal stretch of W Kentucky, Arkansas, Florida Int'l, Ole Miss, Mizzou, Tenn (only 1 of those teams may be bowl bound, assuming the 5th best team in the Sun Belt gets a bowl invite). That team? Even if you think the SEC is hands down the best conf, Bama doesn't play Georgia, Florida, or USC. Ugh. Bama's looked like a dominant football team most of the year, but they get enough breaks without pretending that they've gone through some gauntlet.

[Guest]

If you have a different objective measure you'd rather use, I'm all for it. Alabama's #1 in F/+ too if you want one that uses PBP data. Similarly, looking at Sagarin, Anderson & Hester, and Colley all give Bama the best SOS of any 0-1 loss team except Florida. Maybe there's another ranking out there that is less complimentary, or maybe this week's adjustment for Western Carolina will pull them back to or below the fray, but I'm not someone to invent a point to defend Alabama of all teams. We're always going to be able to do subjective teardowns of any team involved in the National Title chase, that doesn't make them any more valid than the "ROLL TIDE PAWWWWWWL" loons who call into Finebaum.

[Guest]

Anderson doesn't have conference rankings but has Bama 16, KSU 31, ND 32 for SOS.

Billingsley has the Big 12 No. 1 and the SEC No. 2. It has KSU 10, Bama 13, ND 21 for SOS.

Colley has the SEC No. 1 and the Big 12 No. 2. It has Bama 12, ND 26, KSU 44 in SOS.

Massey has the Big 12 No. 1 and the SEC No. 2. It has Bama 8, ND 23, KSU 24 in SOS.

Wolfe has the SEC No. 1 and the Big 12 No. 2. Wolfe does not have SOS rankings.

 

So to summarize, we have six computer rankings, all of which have the Big 12 and the SEC as the best two conferences this year, most by a pretty decent margin. They also agree, across the board, that Alabama has played a tougher schedule than Notre Dame and Kansas State's is basically on par with Notre Dame's.

 

Care to provide any proof to the other side besides "because this is what I see"? Because otherwise, this smacks of "the computers don't prove my point so I'm just going to trash them and if I say it enough, it must be true".

[SpongeWorthy]

Why exactly are ND fans up in arms here? Am I missing something or would some grotesque situation arise where an unbeaten ND team is left out of the title gamem?

[Old Style]

I don't disagree with you about Alabama, but why would you use last year to discredit A&M? Last year doesn't have anything to do with them this year, especially when their best player wasn't even on their team last year. Oh, and he's the best player in college football too this season.

I'm not trying to put down A&M's 2012 team. Just saying, if Texas A&M can come into the SEC after years of being a solid but unspectacular Big 12 program and come within a few missed FGs against LSU of playing for the conference title in year 1, maybe the college football viewing public and media should cool their jets a bit about the SEC being head and shoulders above everybody else.

A lot changed from 2011 to 2012 besides Johnny Manziel, including a brand new coaching staff with a dynamic offense that is much more suited to the college game than what Mike Sherman had been running. Give credit to Kevin Sumlin, Kliff Kingsbury, Mark Snyder, Terry Price, Larry Jackson, and the rest of the staff. They have done what NO ONE expected in year one.

[Formerly Snayke]

I just want to know why Oregon is going to drop to No. 5 for having a 3-point loss to Stanford. Suddenly the Ducks are worse than UGA and Florida? Malarkey.

[Guest]

Why exactly are ND fans up in arms here? Am I missing something or would some grotesque situation arise where an unbeaten ND team is left out of the title gamem?

 

MR's been butthurt for weeks that ND's been the lowest ranked of the major unbeaten teams. He's also one "computer geeks in their mother's basement" away from turning into a crotchety old sportswriter.

[Tracer Bullet]

Anderson doesn't have conference rankings but has Bama 16, KSU 31, ND 32 for SOS.

Billingsley has the Big 12 No. 1 and the SEC No. 2. It has KSU 10, Bama 13, ND 21 for SOS.

Colley has the SEC No. 1 and the Big 12 No. 2. It has Bama 12, ND 26, KSU 44 in SOS.

Massey has the Big 12 No. 1 and the SEC No. 2. It has Bama 8, ND 23, KSU 24 in SOS.

Wolfe has the SEC No. 1 and the Big 12 No. 2. Wolfe does not have SOS rankings.

 

So to summarize, we have six computer rankings, all of which have the Big 12 and the SEC as the best two conferences this year, most by a pretty decent margin. They also agree, across the board, that Alabama has played a tougher schedule than Notre Dame and Kansas State's is basically on par with Notre Dame's.

 

Care to provide any proof to the other side besides "because this is what I see"? Because otherwise, this smacks of "the computers don't prove my point so I'm just going to trash them and if I say it enough, it must be true".

 

They suffer the same flaw. They don't play enough games against quality teams outside their conference to know how good the conference is. The Big 12 takes the cake this year. Point me to a single OOC win by the Big 12 that supports your conclusion. A single one. Miami? Is that what you're going to hang your hat on? KSU beat Miami?

 

It's somewhat amazing to me that so many people say "Saragin says his data is now unbiased" and accepts that as fact. I don't have a "better objective measure." I haven't seen a single "good" objective measure and that includes the ones that ND's schedule ranked toughest heading into the season. I don't know how you can say one schedule is harder than the other when they only share 2-3 teams at most.

 

The best team Bama played is probably better than the best team ND played. Although I don't know if that's true because ND beat a Stanford team that a short-week away game choke against a top-25 team away from being otherwise undefeated and they took the #1 team in the country to OT and lost on a goal line stand and just beat the former #2 team in the country in OT. That's a good resume.

 

But the top 2-3 teams on their schedules are comparable. LSU, TA&M, UM v. Oklahoma, Stanford, UM. But ND has beaten 5 teams in the top 25 in defense. ND has beaten 7 teams that are bowl eligible (and 2 more could be with Ws next week). Bama has played 5 (maybe 6) bowl-eligible teams (lost to one of them) and one of those is the 5th best team in the Sun Belt.

 

ND has given up 111 points to 11 FBS teams. Bama has given up 111 points to 10 FBS teams (including the 5th and 8th best Sun Belt teams), and maybe the worst team in the Southern Conference.

 

If they both win out, they'll play each other and we'll see who is better. But in terms of SOS, resume, etc, saying Bama is head and shoulders above the competition is foolish bordering on delusional. Sorry I can't point to a guy whose got a self-serving "unbiased" computer ranking.

[Tracer Bullet]

Why exactly are ND fans up in arms here? Am I missing something or would some grotesque situation arise where an unbeaten ND team is left out of the title gamem?

 

Having a discussion doesn't mean I'm up in arms.

[Tracer Bullet]

Why exactly are ND fans up in arms here? Am I missing something or would some grotesque situation arise where an unbeaten ND team is left out of the title gamem?

 

MR's been butthurt for weeks that ND's been the lowest ranked of the major unbeaten teams. He's also one "computer geeks in their mother's basement" away from turning into a crotchety old sportswriter.

 

There it is. Just keep your blind faith in the computers that had KSU as the better team this year. They put up about as many points on Baylor as Sam Houston St did (gave up more than SHSt did, too).