2013 Mock Offseason Thread

[Sammy Sofa]

What is not being said is that the Cubs had one of the highest payrolls, worst records and worst farm systems in all of baseball. Hendry doubled down by trading a third of the farm assets for Garza and gave Pena 10 mil.

 

What does this even mean?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What is not being said is that the Cubs had one of the highest payrolls, worst records and worst farm systems in all of baseball. Hendry doubled down by trading a third of the farm assets for Garza and gave Pena 10 mil. There was no option but to cut payroll and build the farm for assets to trade and money to spend. I'm excited about the Cubs for the first time in 3 years.

 

When the Cubs traded for Garza, they were coming off a 75-87 season, had the 15th highest payroll in MLB (though I can't recall if they had any big off-payroll expenditures like traded players or something), and were 16th in the BA organizational rankings even after the trade.

[Clem Fandango]

The Angels' "preference" is to decline their club options on Dan Haren and Ervin Santana in order to pursue a long-term extension with Zack Greinke, a source tells MLB.com's Alden Gonzalez. The team would only look to bring back Haren or Santana if Greinke signed elsewhere, Gonzalez believes.

 

If that happens then Haren and Santana can be added to the mix of pitchers available in the market, fwiw.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

Haren could be the perfect buy low sell high type of pitcher Theo would pay for. Especially if he comes on a 1 or 2 year deal. Santana in the NL has always intrigued me. I think either gives us a solid rotation going into next year if Garza is healthy and fits the "you may see a deadline where half of our starting rotation is dealt again."

[KingCubsFan]

I'm not sure where else this goes, but I found this interesting (even if it was about the Red Sox) and might show some of the reason behind the Cubs' current path under Epstein. The market is different now, and the new CBA + increased TV revenues may have made it impossible for big market teams to retool as they did in the past.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-red-sox-market-value-and-actual-value/

[Beer Kaese]

What is not being said is that the Cubs had one of the highest payrolls, worst records and worst farm systems in all of baseball. Hendry doubled down by trading a third of the farm assets for Garza and gave Pena 10 mil. There was no option but to cut payroll and build the farm for assets to trade and money to spend. I'm excited about the Cubs for the first time in 3 years.

 

When the Cubs traded for Garza, they were coming off a 75-87 season, had the 15th highest payroll in MLB (though I can't recall if they had any big off-payroll expenditures like traded players or something), and were 16th in the BA organizational rankings even after the trade.

 

The Cubs had a 140mil dollar payroll. I think they traded Lee and Lilly, lots of cash. The point is the team was getting older and declining. I know some thought that resigning Ramirez, and signing CJ Wilson and Fielder was the way to go but I believed they needed to blow it up. At some point you have to concede you can't complete and you need trade payroll and build the farm. That is exactly what happened this year.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not sure where else this goes, but I found this interesting (even if it was about the Red Sox) and might show some of the reason behind the Cubs' current path under Epstein. The market is different now, and the new CBA + increased TV revenues may have made it impossible for big market teams to retool as they did in the past.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-red-sox-market-value-and-actual-value/

 

I guess we'll just wait until there's an actual good FA market in 2018 to start trying. In the meantime Mmmmmmmm draft budget...

[davell]

The point being there may never be another good FA class and teams needing to build from within......

[davell]

Kyle, there's a quote from Hoyer in one of the articles from tonight(I think Sullivan) that Hoyer says any baseball ops money left unspent can be spent in the future. Good news on that front anyway.

[Guest]

Kyle, there's a quote from Hoyer in one of the articles from tonight(I think Sullivan) that Hoyer says any baseball ops money left unspent can be spent in the future. Good news on that front anyway.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0927-free-agents-cubs-rockies-chicago--2-20120927,0,6941420.story

 

DENVER — The holes on the Cubs roster are apparent to anyone who has been paying attention this summer, and despite giving chances to a slew of kids, the team won't sit out the free agent marketplace this winter.

 

"We're obviously going to be active," general manager Jed Hoyer said before Wednesday night's game against the Rockies. "I don't think there's going to be any question about that."

 

Hoyer said how much money the Cubs will have to spend "will be determined by the market," adding they will be aggressive in the search for starting pitching.

 

"We have some money to spend and that's an area we're going to focus on heavily," he said, adding: "We certainly need to bolster our rotation."

 

Despite one of the worst seasons in club history, the Cubs attendance was strong enough to make the team profitable. Hoyer said "all the money will go back to the team in one form or another, whether it's things that can help us for the future, or whether it's free agents, or keep money aside for the next free agent class, all the money baseball operations as a whole is given is always going to go back to the club."

 

As for the prospects called up, Hoyer called it a "mixed bag" and that some will start next season at Triple-A Iowa.

 

"Certainly not every guy has shown we need to reserve a spot for him at the beginning of next season, but that's to be expected," he said. "A lot of those guys, maybe they feel like they're ready, but if they start the year out at Iowa it's probably a positive for our roster in a lot of ways."

[CincyCubsFan]

There ought a be a drinking game revolving around Epstein/Hoyer's use of the words "certainly" and "obviously."

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Kyle, there's a quote from Hoyer in one of the articles from tonight(I think Sullivan) that Hoyer says any baseball ops money left unspent can be spent in the future. Good news on that front anyway.

 

That's encouraging, but after "parallel fronts" and "every chance to win is sacred," I'll save my celebration for when I see it actually happening.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Kyle, there's a quote from Hoyer in one of the articles from tonight(I think Sullivan) that Hoyer says any baseball ops money left unspent can be spent in the future. Good news on that front anyway.

 

The real value in our farm system are guys 21 and under, and it's likely 2-4 years by the time that they start getting their first cups of coffee. Whichever of those guys become everyday type players, it's likely at least 2015-2017 by the time they hit their strides and become the foundation of the big league team. If all goes to plan with them, it will be great to have a lot of money to spend and build aroud them.

 

This being said, that's 3-5 years away, so I don't see why we sign some guys 3-5 year contracts, and by the time Future Cubs are ready to become a hypothetical, dominant force, those contracts will be expiring.

[davell]

I seriously doubt the plan is for the Boise Hawks to all reach the majors and establish themselves. Once they're established in Kane County or Daytona, the vast majority will likely be dealt away.

[SouthSideRyan]

The point being there may never be another good FA class and teams needing to build from within......

 

The point being that these 27 year old mvps aren't going to be hitting free agency so daring to spend money on guys for more than a 2 year commitment is going to be necessary no matter how "terrible"ever single one of them look

[Guest]

why is it necessary? it's not necessary for the rays. you just sound spoiled because we have a big payroll and you want to spend all of it on whatever comes along first.

 

it's been kind of surprising to see how certain people on this board have reacted to theo's plan. it was weird to see a lot of the people on this board who were in favor of giving massive contracts to guys like albert pujols and prince fielder.

 

also, as the farm system becomes better and better, there will be more opprtunities to trade for star players and then extend them before they hit free agency. once they build assets, they'll have more felixibility in how they want to acquire proven MLB talent without getting into long-term engagements with guys already near 30.

[Beer Kaese]

Three hundred and eighty-nine posts .. BOO YEA!

 

I'm just padding my total, trying to get to 400 in 10 years.

 

Actually, I'm thrilled to see posts that see what I see. It won't be pretty or easy but 14 or 15 could see a good young team with a stacked farm. And let's face it. If you want a team that can take a good long run at a title, you need a good team and a good farm.

[SouthSideRyan]

why is it necessary? it's not necessary for the rays. you just sound spoiled because we have a big payroll and you want to spend all of it on whatever comes along first.

 

it's been kind of surprising to see how certain people on this board have reacted to theo's plan. it was weird to see a lot of the people on this board who were in favor of giving massive contracts to guys like albert pujols and prince fielder.

 

also, as the farm system becomes better and better, there will be more opprtunities to trade for star players and then extend them before they hit free agency. once they build assets, they'll have more felixibility in how they want to acquire proven MLB talent without getting into long-term engagements with guys already near 30.

 

Yeah think how much worse the Rays would have been this year if they signed Prince Fielder in the offseason. The problem is trying to be the Rays when you don't have to be just because it's "fun."

 

The point is that those star players aren't going to be around to trade prospects for because the Reds of the MLB can actually afford these players now.

[davell]

The point being there may never be another good FA class and teams needing to build from within......

 

The point being that these 27 year old mvps aren't going to be hitting free agency so daring to spend money on guys for more than a 2 year commitment is going to be necessary no matter how "terrible"ever single one of them look

Yeah, so why spend on the 28/29 year old, slightly better than average guy NOW, like a Sanchez or Jackson, on a 4-5 year deal, when you can basically get the same production on a short term deal out of a Marcum type? Please tell me what good it's doing in going long term on those types? And since that's all that's out there other than two stars, one with a well documented drug problem and the other with a well documented anxiety disorder, the question is pertinent. Because neither of those exact two guys are who we should put gigantic money into. I've got no issue in adding older guys on longer term deals when we're likely contending. Hell, if we were a player or two away, I'd give Swisher 5 years. May would give Peavy 3 with an option. But we're not there, so why waste a year or two of what's likely their best production when we aren't gaining anything by it, other than winning 76 games?

[SouthSideRyan]

Three hundred and eighty-nine posts .. BOO YEA!

 

I'm just padding my total, trying to get to 400 in 10 years.

 

Actually, I'm thrilled to see posts that see what I see. It won't be pretty or easy but 14 or 15 could see a good young team with a stacked farm. And let's face it. If you want a team that can take a good long run at a title, you need a good team and a good farm.

 

Yeah, it could. And if some of our top guys flame out, well then we have a pretty good farm system and a terrible major league team.

[davell]

Are you worried about Castro or Rizzo flaming out? Shark? Look, it's likeky as hell that Baez, Almora, and Soler aren't all going to be All Stars. They don't need to be though. They can be dealt long before they ever see Wrigley(Soler, maybe not). I seriously doubt the grand plan is for all these guys to be future Cubs. Look at the Rays, Marlins, Royals, Pirates, some of these other small market teams. The guys that are just beginning to be paid or are about to be, are the guys that'll be Cubs within the next two or three years.

[SouthSideRyan]

The point being there may never be another good FA class and teams needing to build from within......

 

The point being that these 27 year old mvps aren't going to be hitting free agency so daring to spend money on guys for more than a 2 year commitment is going to be necessary no matter how "terrible"ever single one of them look

Yeah, so why spend on the 28/29 year old, slightly better than average guy NOW, like a Sanchez or Jackson, on a 4-5 year deal, when you can basically get the same production on a short term deal out of a Marcum type? Please tell me what good it's doing in going long term on those types? And since that's all that's out there other than two stars, one with a well documented drug problem and the other with a well documented anxiety disorder, the question is pertinent. Because neither of those exact two guys are who we should put gigantic money into. I've got no issue in adding older guys on longer term deals when we're likely contending. Hell, if we were a player or two away, I'd give Swisher 5 years. May would give Peavy 3 with an option. But we're not there, so why waste a year or two of what's likely their best production when we aren't gaining anything by it, other than winning 76 games?

 

BECAUSE YOUR PLAN NEVER HAS US IN THIS MYTHICAL CONTENDING POSITION

[SouthSideRyan]

Are you worried about Castro or Rizzo flaming out? Shark? Look, it's likeky as hell that Baez, Almora, and Soler aren't all going to be All Stars. They don't need to be though. They can be dealt long before they ever see Wrigley(Soler, maybe not). I seriously doubt the grand plan is for all these guys to be future Cubs. Look at the Rays, Marlins, Royals, Pirates, some of these other small market teams. The guys that are just beginning to be paid or are about to be, are the guys that'll be Cubs within the next two or three years.

 

Those teams are locking up their star players now because every team has money.

[Guest]

why is it necessary? it's not necessary for the rays. you just sound spoiled because we have a big payroll and you want to spend all of it on whatever comes along first.

 

it's been kind of surprising to see how certain people on this board have reacted to theo's plan. it was weird to see a lot of the people on this board who were in favor of giving massive contracts to guys like albert pujols and prince fielder.

 

also, as the farm system becomes better and better, there will be more opprtunities to trade for star players and then extend them before they hit free agency. once they build assets, they'll have more felixibility in how they want to acquire proven MLB talent without getting into long-term engagements with guys already near 30.

 

Yeah think how much worse the Rays would have been this year if they signed Prince Fielder in the offseason. The problem is trying to be the Rays when you don't have to be just because it's "fun."

 

and think about how much better the nationals could be if they were able to get rid of werth's contract and spend that money on something better now.

 

anyways, that's not the point, and i never said they should try to be like the rays. you said it's necessary to give out these big contracts to get better and succeed, when teams like the rays/nationals/athletics are showing that you don't.

 

of course i want them to act like a big market team because that's an advantage we'll have over teams like tampa. i just don't see any reason to get upset about the fact that they're waiting until we're a little further along in this process before they start giving out these pivotal long term contracts.

 

i think next year will suck, and then by 2014 we'll start to see potential impact prospects reach the majors, and that's around the time they'll start looking to add high salary players through FA.

[Guest]

Are you worried about Castro or Rizzo flaming out? Shark? Look, it's likeky as hell that Baez, Almora, and Soler aren't all going to be All Stars. They don't need to be though. They can be dealt long before they ever see Wrigley(Soler, maybe not). I seriously doubt the grand plan is for all these guys to be future Cubs. Look at the Rays, Marlins, Royals, Pirates, some of these other small market teams. The guys that are just beginning to be paid or are about to be, are the guys that'll be Cubs within the next two or three years.

 

Those teams are locking up their star players now because every team has money.

 

this is a weird thing to say, considering your stance. based on that, doesn't it makes more sense to try and create your own star players instead of having to overbid for star free agents? you said it yourself, everyone has money. you're going to have to overpay more and more for talent in free agency.