AGone/Beckett/Crawford/Punto traded to LA

[SouthSideRyan]

The Dodgers have my 2010 The Show 1-4.

 

Thanks Derwood

[Little Slide Rooter]

I know most of these guys have seen better days but it's amazing that the Dodgers managed to get Hanley Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett during the trading season. If this was 2010, we're talking 4 perennial all stars.

 

Hanley (28) has looked like his old self since coming to the Dodgers, Crawford (31) was as well when healthy this year. A Gon's (30) has been pretty huge as well, and a change from the AL East to the NL West could be huge, assuming that he can stay healthy. With the possible exception of Beckett, and he's only 31-32, it's not like these are a bunch of over the hill, declining players heading off to die. These guys should dominate the NL for the next 3-5 years. Of course the same was said about the Phillies not too long ago.

[davell]

By the way, if the one rumor was true and we actually offered MORE for Puig than what the Dodgers did, I'd like to see us try and acquire him next season, or whenever he can be dealt. Because theu're OF is set for the next 5 seasons now basically.

[illiniguy]

I know most of these guys have seen better days but it's amazing that the Dodgers managed to get Hanley Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett during the trading season. If this was 2010, we're talking 4 perennial all stars.

 

Hanley (28) has looked like his old self since coming to the Dodgers, Crawford (31) was as well when healthy this year. A Gon's (30) has been pretty huge as well, and a change from the AL East to the NL West could be huge, assuming that he can stay healthy. With the possible exception of Beckett, and he's only 31-32, it's not like these are a bunch of over the hill, declining players heading off to die. These guys should dominate the NL for the next 3-5 years. Of course the same was said about the Phillies not too long ago.

Why would moving to the NL West help AGone? Isn't the AL East the best league to be in as a hitter? What with all of those parks being hitter's parks?

[OleMissCub]

Punto tweeted a pic from the plane.

 

[Guest]

Assuming this trade goes through, the Dodgers will have 195M on the payroll for next year and 136M in 2014 for seven players (this does include guaranteed buyouts for guys who have options) and that's without Kershaw.

[XZero771679666304]

I know most of these guys have seen better days but it's amazing that the Dodgers managed to get Hanley Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett during the trading season. If this was 2010, we're talking 4 perennial all stars.

 

Hanley (28) has looked like his old self since coming to the Dodgers, Crawford (31) was as well when healthy this year. A Gon's (30) has been pretty huge as well, and a change from the AL East to the NL West could be huge, assuming that he can stay healthy. With the possible exception of Beckett, and he's only 31-32, it's not like these are a bunch of over the hill, declining players heading off to die. These guys should dominate the NL for the next 3-5 years. Of course the same was said about the Phillies not too long ago.

Why would moving to the NL West help AGone?

 

I won't help him. If anything, it'll hurt him, for a number of clear reasons. Saying it will help him was ignorant at best.

[XZero771679666304]

Punto tweeted a pic from the plane.

 

 

The all look so sad to be leaving Boston.

 

I really, really would like an unadulterated account of what has gone on at the top of that organization over the past 18-24 months.

[Derwood]

Punto tweeted a pic from the plane.

 

 

The all look so sad to be leaving Boston.

 

I really, really would like an unadulterated account of what has gone on at the top of that organization over the past 18-24 months.

 

30 for 30 please

[davell]

Assuming this trade goes through, the Dodgers will have 195M on the payroll for next year and 136M in 2014 for seven players (this does include guaranteed buyouts for guys who have options) and that's without Kershaw.

300 mill payroll within 5 years. New TV deal on the way, talk of a new stadium, team thats paid for and owners that want to win.

[Guest]

I haven't heard of any talk of a new stadium, just an upgrade. Any links?

[davell]

I haven't heard of any talk of a new stadium, just an upgrade. Any links?

No links. Saw it mentioned somewhere yesterday in all the flurry of that deal. I follow waaaaay too many people. Pretty sure it was a beat writer, but not positive.

[LeftCoastCubFan]

Are the Dodgers about to come into a bunch of money? I know they have new owners, but is a big TV deal coming or something?

The local media contract ends after the 2013 season. The new deal will likely eclipse the Yankees contract. Texas just got about 150 mil a year (and the Angels a bit more), the Dodgers should be worth at least twice that. So the new owners are just trying to pump up interest before negotiations.

 

note: The Cubs receive about 50 mil a year from WGN and CSN. Though the WGN contract ends 2014, the CSN contract doesn't until after 2019.

Edited August 25, 2012 by LeftCoastCubFan

[davell]

Their lead owner just got asked if they have a payroll limit. His response was "somewhere, I suppose."

[dew1679666265]

a) As happy as I am about Theo coming here, I think Theo would be the first one to tell you that he was at the helm when most of these mistakes were made for the Red Sox, and is the reason why the Red Sox need to rebuild. They still have the Lackey contract on the books somewhere, and the system doesn't have the arm depth to replenish things right now, which was why getting two young arms was needed.

 

Good point, I'm being unfair to Cherington.

 

b) Leaving aside the fact that Beckett is viewed as a problem, if not THE problem, Beckett has also lost quite a bit on the fastball. It's been declining since 06. Without the dominant fastball, he's a good arm, but replaceable.

 

Is 1.6 MPH off his fastball enough to take him from a very good starter to replaceable? He's still sitting solidly in the low 90s (91.4 overall) with it, so while I doubt he's a top of the line starter anymore, I don't think he's so bad that I'd want to give him away for nothing but salary relief.

 

c) I think, at least, all indications point to this, that they would've rather kept Gonzalez if they could, but he was the price to pay. Keep in mind that the length and years left on Gonzalez, though, is a huge factor. When you combine that with the length of the Crawford deal, it's just a ridiculous amount of money. It's hard to envision them getting better than that.

 

He's signed through his age 35 season and isn't an abnormally fat player like Prince. The decline in numbers this year is a concern, but if a couple blips in his peripherals made them change their minds from considering his deal a very good deal (which is all I've heard about his contract) to one that is seen as a problem then they're overreacting on a pretty major scale.

 

And for a big market team to trade a very good to great, 30 year old cornerstone and a solid pitcher with the possibility of rebounding just for the sake of dumping one bad contract, I'm glad that GM isn't running my team because that's a pretty major waste of talent and waste of the big market advantage.

 

Look, I won't disagree that if we exclude contracts, this deal is a bit light on the talent side of the Red Sox. But you simply can't ignore the gigantic amount of salary and years they lost in Gonzalez/Crawford. And in return ... they get two guys who have mid-rotation, if not better, ceilings. That's a heck of a return considering how teams over-protect top arms. This clears the deck for the Red Sox, gives them the young arms that they need, along with Barnes, to build a new rotation around Lester/Buchholz.

 

You also can't discount the gigantic amount of talent they traded away in Adrian Gonzalez and, to a lesser extent, Josh Beckett for a decent return. I'm not ignoring the salary they got rid of, but very talented major league players are a valuable commodity and shouldn't be dealt simply because you have the opportunity to shed their salary and then try to spend it on somebody else who you hope is as good as the guys you got rid of.

 

Edit: They also get a solid utility player that could challenge for the starting shortstop gig (although Iglesias is still a better bet there). I'm not the biggest Jerry Sands guy, but I guess he could also challenge for a starting gig, particularly with the hole at first.

 

I'm not forgetting them - they're included when I say the package the Sox got is right around what I would have demanded for Gonzalez (and the vast majority of his salary) alone. Beckett (and his salary) should have garnered them a decent amount more.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I know most of these guys have seen better days but it's amazing that the Dodgers managed to get Hanley Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett during the trading season. If this was 2010, we're talking 4 perennial all stars.

 

Hanley (28) has looked like his old self since coming to the Dodgers, Crawford (31) was as well when healthy this year. A Gon's (30) has been pretty huge as well, and a change from the AL East to the NL West could be huge, assuming that he can stay healthy. With the possible exception of Beckett, and he's only 31-32, it's not like these are a bunch of over the hill, declining players heading off to die. These guys should dominate the NL for the next 3-5 years. Of course the same was said about the Phillies not too long ago.

Why would moving to the NL West help AGone?

 

I won't help him. If anything, it'll hurt him, for a number of clear reasons. Saying it will help him was ignorant at best.

 

I actually very much meant Beckett there. Which is true for obvious reasons.

[toonsterwu]

a) When you couple the decline in performance with Beckett and the belief that he was one of the central problems in Boston, my hunch is that Boston views a Beckett move as addition by subtraction.

 

b) I think you are sort of looking at this in a skewed manner. I don't think this was dumping "one bad contract", I think this was a move aimed at giving Cherington the ability to rebuild the team and to avoid the mistakes that Theo Epstein made in his final years there. Theo noted this in some interviews that I saw, which was that, they basically got stuck in a mode of trying to be competitive each year because of the "core" they had in place. By stripping down the core, even though they aren't using the rebuilding word, they are essentially giving Cherington a clean slate to rebuild the club.

 

c) I'm not so sure that any team, with an Adrian Gonzalez type talent with an Adrian Gonzalez type contract and with Adrian Gonzalez having a slightly down year, would be able to net 2 good arms and 2 supporting pieces for him alone (I can envision maybe the 2 arms ... and maybe a lesser piece than Sands/DeJesus), but that's just a guess. When you factor in that they cleared the deck of their financial responsibilities, they simply weren't going to get equal talent. I think, for the Red Sox, this move makes a lot more sense than keeping the veterans around, and I think this is an easy win for them. A win doesn't mean they rebuild fast ... as we have to see what happens with Ellsbury ... and maybe even with Pedroia and Lester, but they needed to clear the deck, and they got two good young arms.

 

Think about "rebuild" jobs and how long it often takes. The Red Sox weren't going to get anywhere in their current state, and they weren't going to be able to move Beckett (he's somewhat become ... in an odd way, their Soriano ... but Soriano is viewed as a good teammate). Now, there's significantly less pressure to be competitive, they get to build from within and avoid the mistakes that Theo made down the stretch (Granted, I wasn't too enthused with their draft this year, and even last, but that's me).

 

At the end of the day, I think this will go in a cycle, so I'll leave it as we simply disagree.

[Guest]

can we talk about ssr not knowing who rubby is and how he's gone full meatball in the last 3 months?

[Guest]

Baseball Tonight just had a graphic showing Adrian Gonzalez' 18 Fenway Park homeruns overlaid on Dodger Stadium - only 6 of them would be home runs in LA.

[illiniguy]

Baseball Tonight just had a graphic showing Adrian Gonzalez' 18 Fenway Park homeruns overlaid on Dodger Stadium - only 6 of them would be home runs in LA.

He hit a ton of homers in San Diego. I think he'll be ok, but it is a slight gamble. Granted when money isn't an issue and you've been using James Loney, you take that gamble every single time.

[UMFan83]

He didn't have much trouble in his first Dodger AB

[XZero771679666304]

I know most of these guys have seen better days but it's amazing that the Dodgers managed to get Hanley Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett during the trading season. If this was 2010, we're talking 4 perennial all stars.

 

Hanley (28) has looked like his old self since coming to the Dodgers, Crawford (31) was as well when healthy this year. A Gon's (30) has been pretty huge as well, and a change from the AL East to the NL West could be huge, assuming that he can stay healthy. With the possible exception of Beckett, and he's only 31-32, it's not like these are a bunch of over the hill, declining players heading off to die. These guys should dominate the NL for the next 3-5 years. Of course the same was said about the Phillies not too long ago.

Why would moving to the NL West help AGone?

 

I won't help him. If anything, it'll hurt him, for a number of clear reasons. Saying it will help him was ignorant at best.

 

I actually very much meant Beckett there. Which is true for obvious reasons.

 

You're either lying to cover your ignorance or you're spectacularly bad at English composition. I'm thinking both.

[mookie]

I like the blurb on MLBTR that says the talk all started when the Dodgers called Lucchino. Once again, one is left to wonder how much authority the Boston GM actually possesses.

[Sammy Sofa]

I know most of these guys have seen better days but it's amazing that the Dodgers managed to get Hanley Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett during the trading season. If this was 2010, we're talking 4 perennial all stars.

 

Hanley (28) has looked like his old self since coming to the Dodgers, Crawford (31) was as well when healthy this year. A Gon's (30) has been pretty huge as well, and a change from the AL East to the NL West could be huge, assuming that he can stay healthy. With the possible exception of Beckett, and he's only 31-32, it's not like these are a bunch of over the hill, declining players heading off to die. These guys should dominate the NL for the next 3-5 years. Of course the same was said about the Phillies not too long ago.

Why would moving to the NL West help AGone?

 

I won't help him. If anything, it'll hurt him, for a number of clear reasons. Saying it will help him was ignorant at best.

 

I actually very much meant Beckett there. Which is true for obvious reasons.

 

Lies.

[XZero771679666304]

I like the blurb on MLBTR that says the talk all started when the Dodgers called Lucchino. Once again, one is left to wonder how much authority the Boston GM actually possesses.

 

Nothing has happened over the course of the season to counter the notion that Theo wanted out at least in part to Lucchino meddling and diminishing his authority. All the rumors that Larry had a huge hand in many of the decisions made over the past 2-3 years are seeming more and more likely to be true.