2012 Draft Day Thread + Cubs Picks Discussion

[davell]

Sign Soler. Call Almora and say here's slot. Take it or leave it. If you want to take the risk that in 3 years, you're still a top 6 pick, more power to you.

[iowahawkeyes89]

Sign Soler. Call Almora and say here's slot. Take it or leave it. If you want to take the risk that in 3 years, you're still a top 6 pick, more power to you.

 

This is my take as well

[TruffleShuffle]

I said it somewhere else here, but I think this can turn into a college recruiting type deal. Cars, houses, bags of cash, whatever. Anything under the table that doesn't get you caught basically. It's too important to get these guys signed and while things may fall in line at some point in the future, for now, I think there's too much of an unknown. Things could morph into this type of situation for a few years, in my mind.

 

yes and it was as silly when you said it the first time as it is now.

[Vinestal]

I said it somewhere else here, but I think this can turn into a college recruiting type deal. Cars, houses, bags of cash, whatever. Anything under the table that doesn't get you caught basically. It's too important to get these guys signed and while things may fall in line at some point in the future, for now, I think there's too much of an unknown. Things could morph into this type of situation for a few years, in my mind.

 

yes and it was as silly when you said it the first time as it is now.

Why is it silly? Makes plenty of sense to me. Your not the only person to wonder whats to keep it from coming to that davell.

[TruffleShuffle]

I said it somewhere else here, but I think this can turn into a college recruiting type deal. Cars, houses, bags of cash, whatever. Anything under the table that doesn't get you caught basically. It's too important to get these guys signed and while things may fall in line at some point in the future, for now, I think there's too much of an unknown. Things could morph into this type of situation for a few years, in my mind.

 

yes and it was as silly when you said it the first time as it is now.

Why is it silly? Makes plenty of sense to me. Your not the only person to wonder whats to keep it from coming to that davell.

 

so basically teams in every salary cap league in the world engage in rampant cheating.

[davell]

Yeah, I don't see what's so hard to envision there at all. Boras isn't slimy either. He's just got too much power at this point. Most bigtime agents don't have as long of a run on top as he has had. More power to him. Because if you're a major market team, you HAVE to deal with him. No way around it. I don't blame us for taking Almora either. Top guy on our board. But I hope we're expecting to jump through hoops, because we're going to have to. And Boras has more than enough money to float his guys until he gets them what he sees fit. I've heard Badler mention things like this could happen, Chris Crawford thinks the same thing and I don't see why you think everything just magically falls into line. Concessions will need to be made and I doubt teams do it at the expense of the rest of their drafts, to appease a player or two. They'll get creative and still get their main pieces of the class in tow.

[CyHawk_Cub]

I said it somewhere else here, but I think this can turn into a college recruiting type deal. Cars, houses, bags of cash, whatever. Anything under the table that doesn't get you caught basically. It's too important to get these guys signed and while things may fall in line at some point in the future, for now, I think there's too much of an unknown. Things could morph into this type of situation for a few years, in my mind.

 

yes and it was as silly when you said it the first time as it is now.

Why is it silly? Makes plenty of sense to me. Your not the only person to wonder whats to keep it from coming to that davell.

 

so basically teams in every salary cap league in the world engage in rampant cheating.

 

Does that have to be proven to talk about the possibility it could happen under the new CBA in baseball?

[Vinestal]

I said it somewhere else here, but I think this can turn into a college recruiting type deal. Cars, houses, bags of cash, whatever. Anything under the table that doesn't get you caught basically. It's too important to get these guys signed and while things may fall in line at some point in the future, for now, I think there's too much of an unknown. Things could morph into this type of situation for a few years, in my mind.

 

yes and it was as silly when you said it the first time as it is now.

Why is it silly? Makes plenty of sense to me. Your not the only person to wonder whats to keep it from coming to that davell.

 

so basically teams in every salary cap league in the world engage in rampant cheating.

Not sure about rampant but who's to say it doesn't happen on some scale from time to time? It's certainly possible. *shrug* Not really worth arguing about but I don't see how bringing up the possibility is silly. It's possible some shaddy things could go on.

[TruffleShuffle]

I said it somewhere else here, but I think this can turn into a college recruiting type deal. Cars, houses, bags of cash, whatever. Anything under the table that doesn't get you caught basically. It's too important to get these guys signed and while things may fall in line at some point in the future, for now, I think there's too much of an unknown. Things could morph into this type of situation for a few years, in my mind.

 

yes and it was as silly when you said it the first time as it is now.

Why is it silly? Makes plenty of sense to me. Your not the only person to wonder whats to keep it from coming to that davell.

 

so basically teams in every salary cap league in the world engage in rampant cheating.

 

Does that have to be proven to talk about the possibility it could happen under the new CBA in baseball?

 

well i guess you can talk about the possibility, but really, where is the proof that this kind of thing happens in the various salary cap leagues worldwide? plus if teams are cheating in the draft and get caught, they'll obviously face extremely stiff penalties like heavy fines and forfeiting draft picks. the idea that professional organizations are just going to start giving high school draftees cars and houses is probably pretty farfetched.

[davell]

I said it somewhere else here, but I think this can turn into a college recruiting type deal. Cars, houses, bags of cash, whatever. Anything under the table that doesn't get you caught basically. It's too important to get these guys signed and while things may fall in line at some point in the future, for now, I think there's too much of an unknown. Things could morph into this type of situation for a few years, in my mind.

 

yes and it was as silly when you said it the first time as it is now.

Why is it silly? Makes plenty of sense to me. Your not the only person to wonder whats to keep it from coming to that davell.

 

so basically teams in every salary cap league in the world engage in rampant cheating.

First off, neither basketball or football has an agent around as powerful as Boras. Secondly, their new CBA's gave much more cut and dry rookie slotting scales. Thirdly, baseball is the only one of the 3 that doesn't make you declare whether or not you're turning pro. These guys have leverage the other sports don't. Period. Eventually things may get easier, but with this being year one, thete's going to be some loopholes getting exploited bigtime.

[TruffleShuffle]

"loopholes getting exploited" is not the same thing as "bags of cash under the table"

 

also, drew rosenhaus is pretty powerful (as are some of the other big agencies) and scott boras has never been accused of cheating or really even being unethical.

[davell]

"loopholes getting exploited" is not the same thing as "bags of cash under the table"

Very easily could be, for the exact reasons I just listed. It's an example. I'm sure there are others. Hopefully the guys who may wind up in a position like this can come up with better ways. But the draft system sucks right now and teams are going to want to maximize as many guys as they can get. But no one can say what may or may not happen right now. Maybe, hopefully, it doesn't come to things like this. But to think it can NOT morph into it, with this type of system in place, is naive.

[davell]

Again, the difference here is baseball does NOT have a salary cap, while both other sports do. They have much better slotting systems in place for their drafts, which players have to declare for, unless they're seniors. This is the first year baseball has capped teams on the draft, the most powerful agent around absolutely hates it, and it won't surprise me at all to see him make things hard as hell, so baseball has to relook at this part of the CBA.

[Guest]

Sign Soler. Call Almora and say here's slot. Take it or leave it. If you want to take the risk that in 3 years, you're still a top 6 pick, more power to you.

 

This is my take as well

 

That's very short-sighted, especially since Almora is universally considered better than Soler. You might be squabbling over mere hundreds of thousands of dollars that probably won't screw up the rest of your draft and the Cubs probably won't get as good a player in next year's draft since they'll go the safer route to avoid risking not signing next year's 7th overall with no compensation in 2014.

[Guest]

Again, the difference here is baseball does NOT have a salary cap, while both other sports do. They have much better slotting systems in place for their drafts, which players have to declare for, unless they're seniors. This is the first year baseball has capped teams on the draft, the most powerful agent around absolutely hates it, and it won't surprise me at all to see him make things hard as hell, so baseball has to relook at this part of the CBA.

 

That's different than saying he'll force baseball teams to do underhanded, illicit activities. Boras is a hard ass who goes to bat for his clients but he's not unethical.

[davell]

Technically, you're right obviously. You don't lose your top pick over a relatively small amount. For all we know, Boras MAY just be trying to get him all of slot. No idea. But, if he's looking at getting 4.5 or something like that? Let him walk. Plus, don't you now get an extra year out of the lost pick? Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought you got a second year now, to where if we lost 6, we'd get 7 next year and also the year after, if we didn't sign them that year either. But taking a hard line stance over a couple of hundred grand, I still think it's likely Almora would cave, in the end.

[davell]

Boras is not unethical, that we know of. And since he's been around as long as he has been, that probably means he's not. But this is unchartered territory and who's to say it's not the teams that would bring this up, as an alternative? Again, I have no idea whether any of this is or ever will be going on. But I think anything's possible, in a situation like this.

[Guest]

@Kevin_Goldstein @BleacherNation Every pick is individual. If (when) Almora signs, he's going to get way more than Zimmer.

 

Jim Callis said the Brewers signed Victor Roache (1.28) for $1.525 million while the pick is valued at $1.65 million. That means 4 first rounders - Correa, Zimmer, Sims (Atlanta) and Roache - have already signed. The only good thing about this new CBA is the new signing deadline in July.

[TruffleShuffle]

"loopholes getting exploited" is not the same thing as "bags of cash under the table"

Very easily could be, for the exact reasons I just listed. It's an example. I'm sure there are others. Hopefully the guys who may wind up in a position like this can come up with better ways. But the draft system sucks right now and teams are going to want to maximize as many guys as they can get. But no one can say what may or may not happen right now. Maybe, hopefully, it doesn't come to things like this. But to think it can NOT morph into it, with this type of system in place, is naive.

 

how is this different from every salary cap system in the world? yes i get that they're amateur players turning pro, but don't NFL teams want to get as much talent as they can? especially a team like the cowboys or the patriots with billionaire owners and profitable franchises; they certainly can afford to spend more on players than they currently do. the incentive for them to circumvent the salary cap is very real.

[El Duderino]

As another poster once proclaimed, you can change my username to Raging Anus if the Cubs don't sign Almora.

[TruffleShuffle]

As another poster once proclaimed, you can change my username to Raging Anus if the Cubs don't sign Almora.

 

i believe that poster already has dibs on Raging Anus, since wilken and fleita are still with the cubs.

[El Duderino]

As another poster once proclaimed, you can change my username to Raging Anus if the Cubs don't sign Almora.

 

i believe that poster already has dibs on Raging Anus, since wilken and fleita are still with the cubs.

 

Damn. How about Frenzied Sphincter?

[davell]

Truffle, there's a much different leverage here. Football and basketball both have true rookie slotting scales. It's much more cut and dry. You get picked 8th, you get THAT money or you don't play. Baseball gave teams the ability to allocate more money to different picks, if they choose to. They also don't have a cut and dry system in place that says if you're in the draft, that's you're only option. Yeah, an NBA player can technically go overseas and play, but it's not a regular development, by any means. This is MUCH different than the NFL or NBA. I have little doubt we'll get Almora, Johnson, Blackburn, and Underwood signed. We'll get it done, one way or another. But this system is fucked up. If it wasn't, players would be drafted in an order more in tune with their talent, rather than by signability.

[craig]

You guys may know better (if so, tell me, too!). But I have no idea about what kind of limits the new cba has on the types of contractual deals that are acceptable. At present all we hear is that about dollar limits.

 

But in past all kinds of various individualized perks have been included in deals. Ben Wells goes on the 40-man at a certain time. Samardz got a big-league contract. Szczur became a free agent after one year. Kirk had a clause where his parents get like three team-paid weekend trips to watch him play. In the majors Boras has often included indulgences like private rooms, plane trips to visit family, etc. etc.. The most important draft one has been college tuition.

 

Has all of that been ruled out? Even the scholarships? Or is there stuff that can be done to enrich the contract that won't count on the cap?

[davell]

No clue about some of the perks like what Kirk got. Goldstein said the education packages don't count against the monetary cap. You csn't immediately be added to the 40 man. I guess that would obviously change if you actually brought the kid up without putting him in the minors at all. Kind of doubt they could tell you that you can't do that. No idea if you can set a target time or not though, as far as that stuff goes either.