Minor League Discussion & Boxes 5-26-12

[davell]

I'vr always had it in the back of my mind, that we signed Balaguert, Martinez, and Concepcion to put us at the top of Soler's list.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/college/weekend-preview/2009/268005.html

 

"He's been tremendous," Alexander said of Loosen. "He changes speeds on you. His fastball's anywhere from 89-91, and he throws a slider but also throws an overhand curveball, which he can throw behind in the count. He takes quite a bit off, you'd have to really sit on that pitch to hit it, and you can't sit on it when you're looking at 91. His slider has good downward plane, breaks down and away, and he also throws a changeup. His strikeout pitch against righthanded hitters is his slider. He's a true four-pitch guy."

[sporrer17]

Clevenger is 3-3 with a 2b and HR. I'd say it's about time they get him back in Chicago. Maybe they give him another day in Iowa and bring him up this week.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I'vr always had it in the back of my mind, that we signed Balaguert, Martinez, and Concepcion to put us at the top of Soler's list.

 

You don't sign a supposed nobody to 6 million dollars to lure another FA. What in the hell would would have anyone thinking that from this kind of FO? This is the kind of FO that throws money around like that? Has ownership done anything to even hint that they just are willing to throw away significant chunks of cash like that?

[sporrer17]

Now a HR for Vitters, #5 on the year.

[El Duderino]

Josh Vitters HR.

 

Jackson, Rizzo, and Vitters all homered in the same game... squee

[toonsterwu]

As far as the Concepcion signing...I doubt they just decided to up and spend 6 million on a lefty who was starting in his country's pro league (and Cuba is a good one) at 18 for the hell of it. I also have to that few, if any, liked the deal, and it's been panned by every major analyst I can think of. There are no some on that deal, but I do think that his talent has been *undersold* since he got that deal no one expected him to get. Before he became a Cub there was reports of him hitting 92 maybe even 93 (with the aptitude and athleticism to maybe grow into that along with a couple decent secondary pitches), but those went away quickly. So he didn't come sprinting out of the gate...That's not really something to hold against a young IFA making his overseas debut. Matt Loosen is just finding his feet in High A at 23 and that's fine, but the 20 year old who was just playing pro ball in Cuba 8 months ago gets the mini-leash? Really?

 

Did you even read my first comment? I said both seem like end of the rotation arms, with mid-rotation ceilings? How is that giving Concepcion a mini-leash? Hell ... I thought that was awfully nice of me, what with

 

a) Reports that his mechanics are horrible

b) Reports that he has no feel on his secondary stuff

c) Reports that his fastball is only topping out at 90 ... and sits in the upper 80;s

 

Really, how the heck do you read what I typed above as giving Concepcion a mini-leash compared to giving Loosen a big pat on the back? Read the first dang comment I typed ... I said I thought both were end of the rotation types with mid-rotation ceilings.

[toonsterwu]

I'vr always had it in the back of my mind, that we signed Balaguert, Martinez, and Concepcion to put us at the top of Soler's list.

 

I wouldn't go that far. It might've been a factor, but I doubt they'd throw around that much money unless they saw something they liked. And I imagine that's what happened in this scenario - they saw Concepcion, perhaps on a really good day, while others perhaps saw him on his down days.

[rawaction]

Josh Vitters HR.

 

Jackson, Rizzo, and Vitters all homered in the same game... squee

 

2nd time in 10 days they've done that.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I don't know what reports you had on Loosen from the draft year, but the stuff from Jacksonville that year, and people that followed the team that year, said Loosen had an above average slider that showed well, and that it might get better as he got more work with it. The stuff I've heard in the past year and change suggest that the slider is still above average to plus, and that A/A+ hitters have had problems with his out-pitch. Like I noted above, I certainly think we have to wait and see how things play as he moves up another level, but I see no problems with calling the pitch an above-average to plus slider right now, as I've heard that consistently.

 

Already linked a pre-draft look...You would think for a guy you claim has #3 SP upside at the ML level that he'd be able to dominate A/A+ hitters with this slider. His K rates are nothing to brag about, and you would expect that from a 23 year old in High A for the second time with a supposed above average to plus ML pitch. Soooooo...I'm calling bs. Wait all you want, but I expect you'll be disappointed with your claims.

 

As an aside, what exactly do you define as mid-90's? When I talk ... to people ... they always say 93-96, hence why I have no qualms in saying a guy hitting 93/94 is hitting mid-90's (as a breakdown, anything past 96, I've always associated with high 90's, but one ... person said to me once that he called 95+ as high 90's, and 90-92 would be low 90's).

 

It's not an aside. Yes, I would go with 93-96 which is not 93-94. That...person is very easily amused. I would say that about somebody in the majors, maybe, since 95+ consistently is no joke at that level (no innings limits, not as severe with the pitch counts, best competition, etc).

 

Also, what are you defining as mid-rotation upside? Classic mid-rotation upside, scouting report wise, is what, one plus pitch, 2 average pitches, average command? Now, if the slider is more average than above average, then no, Loosen doesn't have a mid-rotation ceiling. But, for now, I'll go with what I've heard so far. (as a comparison, much as I tooted Struck's horn in the past, Struck really doesn't have a mid-rotation ceiling ... he's just so young that I keep hoping something will turn, for the positive, for him, but the stuff doesn't really justify a mid-rotation ceiling label on Struck, which I've admittedly put on him in the past). That's all that I'm talking about when I say that Loosen has mid-rotation ceiling (if you note my first comment, I said both Loosen and Concepcion seem like end of the rotation arms ... and the more I hear about Concepcion, the more I think he should be in XST to get his mechanics overhauled). Now, I know some folks make adjustments on scouting reports at times - for example, if a guy has plus-plus command, they might bend the definition on a mid-rotation starter even if the stuff isn't there. I know some have said that plus makeup for them can help overcome concerns in other areas.

 

I'm not defining anything, but I know a pitcher who can be a mid-rotation starter when I read/see one. Matt Loosen is not that. I have never lied to myself about Nick Struck either. OTOH, if I was to bet money on which one becomes a #3 starter at the highest level between Struck and Loosen, it would be Struck by miles and miles. Struck, to me, was a guy who they liked how he was throwing, saw him performing well, Cubs figured he could handle moves/had good makeup/maturity, and the Cubs also figured they could use the press of a 21 year old arm making it to AAA so quickly. Right place, right time, and the abilities to make the situation work out well enough that nobody complained.

 

I have no clue what makes you think Concepcion needs his mechanics overhauled. The guy hasn't even been stateside for two full months yet.

 

For example, let's take a "hot" arm from this year in Francescon. I don't think anyone anticipates that he'll be a legitimate mid-rotation arm in the bigs unless everything clicks right. But if he does? Yeah, that's a possible mid-rotation ceiling, since the change is viewed as an above average to plus pitch, and there have been positive enough reports on the slider this year to go with the average fastball.

 

Is there just a thing for short RH starters pitching below their age level with what, in the majors, is non-exceptional stuff? Is this their weekend or something? Francescon is almost a non-entity to me as far as long term rotation options in this minor league systems go.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Did you even read my first comment? I said both seem like end of the rotation arms, with mid-rotation ceilings? How is that giving Concepcion a mini-leash? Hell ... I thought that was awfully nice of me, what with

 

a) Reports that his mechanics are horrible

b) Reports that he has no feel on his secondary stuff

c) Reports that his fastball is only topping out at 90 ... and sits in the upper 80;s

 

Really, how the heck do you read what I typed above as giving Concepcion a mini-leash compared to giving Loosen a big pat on the back? Read the first dang comment I typed ... I said I thought both were end of the rotation types with mid-rotation ceilings.

 

Concepcion's pedigree, which I can pretty much trust to be real, blows Loosen's out of the water. To me, this kind of stuff matters. It matters alot. The fact that you're even putting them on the same plane is ridiculous to me.

 

I'd like the reports of his mechanics being terrible...And again, reports were mighty positive about him until the second he inked that contract with the Cubs...so pardon me if I'm leery of what is essentially noise coming out of the first two months of his American pro career...noise from people who've been knocking his signing since he got the money, and who suddenly forgot that during the process there were reports of hitting 92-93...as a projectable teenager with no real weight training or MLB conditioning program of any kind...already holding his own as a pro in a county that is pretty good at playing baseball. All of a sudden he's getting money for the sake of spending money...and you wonder why I'm talking about a mini-leash? Again, really?

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Josh Vitters HR.

 

Jackson, Rizzo, and Vitters all homered in the same game... squee

 

Waiting for his new slash line to load....pretty sure his ISOd is close to .050, which would be nice. He's up to .266 with the BA, and I even think his ISOslg might be .150.

 

His last 10 line before tonight from MiLB.com is .324/.410/.559. Things are looking up for the Vitters!

Edited May 27, 2012 by PriortoTheoIhadWood

[davell]

Everyone here is willing to give him time. But it's certainly OK to question what's going on with him too. The only "glowing" reports I've heard on Concepcion have come from us or his agent. No one else. I do trust our guys' scouting eyes, so I do think they saw SOMETHING here. But, if reports are true him and Soler are buddies, then I could see us overpaying somewhat, to get him in the fold early and maybe help out with Soler as well.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Everyone here is willing to give him time. But it's certainly OK to question what's going on with him too. The only "glowing" reports I've heard on Concepcion have come from us or his agent. No one else. I do trust our guys' scouting eyes, so I do think they saw SOMETHING here. But, if reports are true him and Soler are buddies, then I could see us overpaying somewhat, to get him in the fold early and maybe help out with Soler as well.

 

I don't think our scouts have done anything to warrant trust yet. I skeptical, but not doubtful, if that makes sense.

[Guest]

Everyone here is willing to give him time. But it's certainly OK to question what's going on with him too. The only "glowing" reports I've heard on Concepcion have come from us or his agent. No one else. I do trust our guys' scouting eyes, so I do think they saw SOMETHING here. But, if reports are true him and Soler are buddies, then I could see us overpaying somewhat, to get him in the fold early and maybe help out with Soler as well.

 

I don't think our scouts have done anything to warrant trust yet. I skeptical, but not doubtful, if that makes sense.

 

Pretty sure he means the braintrust.

[toonsterwu]

I don't know what reports you had on Loosen from the draft year, but the stuff from Jacksonville that year, and people that followed the team that year, said Loosen had an above average slider that showed well, and that it might get better as he got more work with it. The stuff I've heard in the past year and change suggest that the slider is still above average to plus, and that A/A+ hitters have had problems with his out-pitch. Like I noted above, I certainly think we have to wait and see how things play as he moves up another level, but I see no problems with calling the pitch an above-average to plus slider right now, as I've heard that consistently.

 

Already linked a pre-draft look...You would think for a guy you claim has #3 SP upside at the ML level that he'd be able to dominate A/A+ hitters with this slider. His K rates are nothing to brag about, and you would expect that from a 23 year old in High A for the second time with a supposed above average to plus ML pitch. Soooooo...I'm calling bs. Wait all you want, but I expect you'll be disappointed with your claims.

 

As an aside, what exactly do you define as mid-90's? When I talk ... to people ... they always say 93-96, hence why I have no qualms in saying a guy hitting 93/94 is hitting mid-90's (as a breakdown, anything past 96, I've always associated with high 90's, but one ... person said to me once that he called 95+ as high 90's, and 90-92 would be low 90's).

 

It's not an aside. Yes, I would go with 93-96 which is not 93-94. That...person is very easily amused. I would say that about somebody in the majors, maybe, since 95+ consistently is no joke at that level (no innings limits, not as severe with the pitch counts, best competition, etc).

 

Also, what are you defining as mid-rotation upside? Classic mid-rotation upside, scouting report wise, is what, one plus pitch, 2 average pitches, average command? Now, if the slider is more average than above average, then no, Loosen doesn't have a mid-rotation ceiling. But, for now, I'll go with what I've heard so far. (as a comparison, much as I tooted Struck's horn in the past, Struck really doesn't have a mid-rotation ceiling ... he's just so young that I keep hoping something will turn, for the positive, for him, but the stuff doesn't really justify a mid-rotation ceiling label on Struck, which I've admittedly put on him in the past). That's all that I'm talking about when I say that Loosen has mid-rotation ceiling (if you note my first comment, I said both Loosen and Concepcion seem like end of the rotation arms ... and the more I hear about Concepcion, the more I think he should be in XST to get his mechanics overhauled). Now, I know some folks make adjustments on scouting reports at times - for example, if a guy has plus-plus command, they might bend the definition on a mid-rotation starter even if the stuff isn't there. I know some have said that plus makeup for them can help overcome concerns in other areas.

 

I'm not defining anything, but I know a pitcher who can be a mid-rotation starter when I read/see one. Matt Loosen is not that. I have never lied to myself about Nick Struck either. OTOH, if I was to bet money on which one becomes a #3 starter at the highest level between Struck and Loosen, it would be Struck by miles and miles. Struck, to me, was a guy who they liked how he was throwing, saw him performing well, Cubs figured he could handle moves/had good makeup/maturity, and the Cubs also figured they could use the press of a 21 year old arm making it to AAA so quickly. Right place, right time, and the abilities to make the situation work out well enough that nobody complained.

 

I have no clue what makes you think Concepcion needs his mechanics overhauled. The guy hasn't even been stateside for two full months yet.

 

For example, let's take a "hot" arm from this year in Francescon. I don't think anyone anticipates that he'll be a legitimate mid-rotation arm in the bigs unless everything clicks right. But if he does? Yeah, that's a possible mid-rotation ceiling, since the change is viewed as an above average to plus pitch, and there have been positive enough reports on the slider this year to go with the average fastball.

 

Is there just a thing for short RH starters pitching below their age level with what, in the majors, is non-exceptional stuff? Is this their weekend or something? Francescon is almost a non-entity to me as far as long term rotation options in this minor league systems go.

 

a) What am I waiting on, exactly? I said that he had end of the rotation ability, with a mid-rotation ceiling. I didn't say he was going to reach the majors. I didn't say he would dominate the upper levels (and I was very specific on that one). Again ... I don't know what you are reading ... but what I am waiting on?

 

b) So if 93-96 is mid-90's ... what I am wrong again? I got reports of 93/94, which ... and if I'm somehow mistaken here, please let me know ... falls between 93-96. If you want to challenge the people that I've heard from ... okay. That's fair game, and I don't comment on that. But strictly from uh ... counting perspective ... what I am wrong on again?

 

c) Okay, so that's where we're running into issues. I'm talking about how scouts define a mid-rotation arm. I'm not saying Loosen or Concepcion will be a mid-rotation arm (or even Struck ... the one big plus in Struck's favor is his makeup). I'm talking about whether or not they fit what scouts define as a mid-rotation ceiling. Your talking ... gut feel, I guess.

 

d) I can't share private emails, but I know there was an online report somewhere that said Concepcion's mechanics needed a lot of work. Maybe over-hauled was a bit harsh, but the mechanics are something that's been brought up. I'll try to dig around for it later.

 

e) So ... at the end of the day, the big issue in this discussion is that I'm talking about what scouts define as a mid-rotation arm, and you're talking about gut feel on what a mid-rotation arm should be. And to be clear, I've repeatedly said ceiling. Like with the last discussion, few guys reach their ceilings, and I've specifically noted that in this discussion.

[davell]

It was Jose Serra, along with Fleita and McLeod, wasn't it? Maybe Theo and Jed too? I'm not skeptical of our top guys at all. Fleita's the only one I mentioned I don't particularly trust. Hopefully he'll get it going soon and it's an adjustment or nervousness deal and not bad decision making on our part.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Everyone here is willing to give him time. But it's certainly OK to question what's going on with him too. The only "glowing" reports I've heard on Concepcion have come from us or his agent. No one else. I do trust our guys' scouting eyes, so I do think they saw SOMETHING here. But, if reports are true him and Soler are buddies, then I could see us overpaying somewhat, to get him in the fold early and maybe help out with Soler as well.

 

It's fine to question what's going on with him. It's laughable to say that they signed him for the hell of signing him or to lure someone else. You don't give an IFA 6 million dollars for those reasons, and that's common sense simply common sense.

 

I'm not sure who put out the 92 stuff whenever it was out there, but it was out there up until the Cubs signed him. I didn't read that one way or another either...glowing or not...it was what it was stated to be.

 

It's not even shocking to hear he's in the 80's right now. He probably weighs 160 soaking wet.

[toonsterwu]

Did you even read my first comment? I said both seem like end of the rotation arms, with mid-rotation ceilings? How is that giving Concepcion a mini-leash? Hell ... I thought that was awfully nice of me, what with

 

a) Reports that his mechanics are horrible

b) Reports that he has no feel on his secondary stuff

c) Reports that his fastball is only topping out at 90 ... and sits in the upper 80;s

 

Really, how the heck do you read what I typed above as giving Concepcion a mini-leash compared to giving Loosen a big pat on the back? Read the first dang comment I typed ... I said I thought both were end of the rotation types with mid-rotation ceilings.

 

Concepcion's pedigree, which I can pretty much trust to be real, blows Loosen's out of the water. To me, this kind of stuff matters. It matters alot. The fact that you're even putting them on the same plane is ridiculous to me.

 

I'd like the reports of his mechanics being terrible...And again, reports were mighty positive about him until the second he inked that contract with the Cubs...so pardon me if I'm leery of what is essentially noise coming out of the first two months of his American pro career...noise from people who've been knocking his signing since he got the money, and who suddenly forgot that during the process there were reports of hitting 92-93...as a projectable teenager with no real weight training or MLB conditioning program of any kind...already holding his own as a pro in a county that is pretty good at playing baseball. All of a sudden he's getting money for the sake of spending money...and you wonder why I'm talking about a mini-leash? Again, really?

 

Did you even read my entire comment on that one? Here

 

Here's the thing - what if everyone was right ... and the Cubs simply over-sold Concepcion? Didn't BA say end of the rotation, at best? Fringe stuff, with some projection ( I mean, based on the reports of his stuff right now ... we aren't talking about a arm with good ML potential ... average fastball, below average curve/change, mechanical problems)? (too lazy to check right now, but that was loosely my recollection on what they said). Wasn't Concepcion's best asset supposed to be his "makeup", and not his "stuff"? Didn't a lot of people say this was spending money for spending money's sake, since the new rules were coming in?

 

All that said, while I was never as enthused about the signing as some, I'll defend it some and say that I think I expect that he'll probably adjust some. I think it's a positive that his fastball is actually hitting 90 at times, not the 86-88 some had. I think it's a positive that Concepcion supposedly gets very good action on the 2-seamer (heard that somewhere). Now, supposedly, the breaking ball and changeup are junk right now, and there's been several reports that he has a lot of work to do mechanically, but there's some positives to think that he might be able to adjust and be somewhat productive at some point.

 

Where the heck did I say they were spending money for spending money's sake? Furthermore, the 2nd part of the post was partially (admittedly, not wholeheartedly) defending him. Actually, if you read the Concepcion comments I've made before, I've consistently said that I imagine this to be akin to say ... the Hayden SImpson scenario ... where the Cubs saw Concepcion (and Simpson) on a really good day, and others perhaps saw him on his more mediocre days.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

It was Jose Serra, along with Fleita and McLeod, wasn't it? Maybe Theo and Jed too? I'm not skeptical of our top guys at all. Fleita's the only one I mentioned I don't particularly trust. Hopefully he'll get it going soon and it's an adjustment or nervousness deal and not bad decision making on our part.

 

Fleita is the one who built the one thing the Cubs had/have going for them...the Latin America operation. It's already landed the team it's best player and some relief arms. He's a guy who's reputation will increase now that he's working for people (and I'm talking about the Ricketts') who will appreciate the job he's done and doing.

 

I actually like him more than McLeod, who will also see his reputation rise just from being here for the turnaround we're likely to see in the next 3-5 years (if not sooner).

[toonsterwu]

Everyone here is willing to give him time. But it's certainly OK to question what's going on with him too. The only "glowing" reports I've heard on Concepcion have come from us or his agent. No one else. I do trust our guys' scouting eyes, so I do think they saw SOMETHING here. But, if reports are true him and Soler are buddies, then I could see us overpaying somewhat, to get him in the fold early and maybe help out with Soler as well.

 

I don't think our scouts have done anything to warrant trust yet. I skeptical, but not doubtful, if that makes sense.

 

Really as a total aside, but I think most of the scouting staff is probably still in place from the past. They've added to it, but I don't recall a wholesale changing of the scouting staff. Maybe I'm mistaken on this one.

 

I think our FO deserves the benefit of the doubt (much as I've questioned McLeod's tenure as Padres Scouting Director), partly because they bring a new, much needed approach, and also because it's year 1. Benefit of the doubt obviously doesn't equate into trust, though.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I don't know what reports you had on Loosen from the draft year, but the stuff from Jacksonville that year, and people that followed the team that year, said Loosen had an above average slider that showed well, and that it might get better as he got more work with it. The stuff I've heard in the past year and change suggest that the slider is still above average to plus, and that A/A+ hitters have had problems with his out-pitch. Like I noted above, I certainly think we have to wait and see how things play as he moves up another level, but I see no problems with calling the pitch an above-average to plus slider right now, as I've heard that consistently.

 

Already linked a pre-draft look...You would think for a guy you claim has #3 SP upside at the ML level that he'd be able to dominate A/A+ hitters with this slider. His K rates are nothing to brag about, and you would expect that from a 23 year old in High A for the second time with a supposed above average to plus ML pitch. Soooooo...I'm calling bs. Wait all you want, but I expect you'll be disappointed with your claims.

 

As an aside, what exactly do you define as mid-90's? When I talk ... to people ... they always say 93-96, hence why I have no qualms in saying a guy hitting 93/94 is hitting mid-90's (as a breakdown, anything past 96, I've always associated with high 90's, but one ... person said to me once that he called 95+ as high 90's, and 90-92 would be low 90's).

 

It's not an aside. Yes, I would go with 93-96 which is not 93-94. That...person is very easily amused. I would say that about somebody in the majors, maybe, since 95+ consistently is no joke at that level (no innings limits, not as severe with the pitch counts, best competition, etc).

 

Also, what are you defining as mid-rotation upside? Classic mid-rotation upside, scouting report wise, is what, one plus pitch, 2 average pitches, average command? Now, if the slider is more average than above average, then no, Loosen doesn't have a mid-rotation ceiling. But, for now, I'll go with what I've heard so far. (as a comparison, much as I tooted Struck's horn in the past, Struck really doesn't have a mid-rotation ceiling ... he's just so young that I keep hoping something will turn, for the positive, for him, but the stuff doesn't really justify a mid-rotation ceiling label on Struck, which I've admittedly put on him in the past). That's all that I'm talking about when I say that Loosen has mid-rotation ceiling (if you note my first comment, I said both Loosen and Concepcion seem like end of the rotation arms ... and the more I hear about Concepcion, the more I think he should be in XST to get his mechanics overhauled). Now, I know some folks make adjustments on scouting reports at times - for example, if a guy has plus-plus command, they might bend the definition on a mid-rotation starter even if the stuff isn't there. I know some have said that plus makeup for them can help overcome concerns in other areas.

 

I'm not defining anything, but I know a pitcher who can be a mid-rotation starter when I read/see one. Matt Loosen is not that. I have never lied to myself about Nick Struck either. OTOH, if I was to bet money on which one becomes a #3 starter at the highest level between Struck and Loosen, it would be Struck by miles and miles. Struck, to me, was a guy who they liked how he was throwing, saw him performing well, Cubs figured he could handle moves/had good makeup/maturity, and the Cubs also figured they could use the press of a 21 year old arm making it to AAA so quickly. Right place, right time, and the abilities to make the situation work out well enough that nobody complained.

 

I have no clue what makes you think Concepcion needs his mechanics overhauled. The guy hasn't even been stateside for two full months yet.

 

For example, let's take a "hot" arm from this year in Francescon. I don't think anyone anticipates that he'll be a legitimate mid-rotation arm in the bigs unless everything clicks right. But if he does? Yeah, that's a possible mid-rotation ceiling, since the change is viewed as an above average to plus pitch, and there have been positive enough reports on the slider this year to go with the average fastball.

 

Is there just a thing for short RH starters pitching below their age level with what, in the majors, is non-exceptional stuff? Is this their weekend or something? Francescon is almost a non-entity to me as far as long term rotation options in this minor league systems go.

 

I guess the reason there is hope for some of these untouted prospects is that when it comes to later round picks turned stars, aside from fans of their team that follow the minors closely, most fans never hear of them until they reach top 100 status. For example, Tommy Hanson was a 22nd rounder in 2006, and in 2009, he debut as the 4th overall prospect. I'm just saying, it's hard to tell where guys like that come from. Why can't it be one of our guys?

Edited May 27, 2012 by Little Slide Rooter

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Did you even read my entire comment on that one? Here

 

Phrasing it as a question simply made it the passive aggressive form of attack I think it was intended to be. Personally...and this is just me...I'm highly unlikeable...I think you've been passive aggressively attacking Concepcion in this therad since I stated my distaste for Loosen even being said to have the ceiling of a mid-rotation guy. I'm highly unlikeable so maybe I'm just imagining it...but that's totally how it reads to me.

Edited May 27, 2012 by PriortoTheoIhadWood

[toonsterwu]

Uh, WSR, no way am I putting Loosen anywhere near Tommy Hanson category. Hanson always had some hype.

[davell]

I don't think I ever said Concepcion was a nobody. Wait, I'm positive about that actually. He was the top Cuban pitcher coming over this offseason, with Omar Luis and Armando Rivero fairly close behind. Neither who has signed yet. Saying we wanted to do as much as possible to entice Soler isn't any reach either, from my standpoint. Everyone thought we overpaid on Concepcion. The question becomes did we do it to help with Soler or did we just miss(if things don't turn around obviously)? I'm sure we liked him, but it's possible that IF he is/was the key to getting Soler, we'd look at his pricetag a bit differently, if we think of Soler as a franchise type talent.