Joe Mather Batting Third

[Backtobanks]

The discussion kind of went off on a tangent. My point was that for all of the bad things about Hendry, there were quite a few good things. There were many years where he had assembled the best team in the NL Central on paper, but "stuff happens" and they never got to the World Series. Some of that "stuff" certainly included way more than our share of injuries to key players during his tenure.

 

If your point is that Hendry would have been good if not for injuries, then you really aren't conceding any weaknesses on his part, and thus you shouldn't be listened to.

 

Every GM has injuries, every GM makes several good trades (in ten years! I think I saw FIVE trades listed. Give him a medal) and every GM makes good and bad signings. Hendry's strengths were less and his weaknesses greater than a "good" GM. (And this is not to mention his reactionary attitude toward sabermetrics.)

 

I only listed 5 trades to prove a point, but obviously he made many more. As for the injuries, the Cubs had more than their share including Wood and Prior. There aren't many teams that could absorb the loss of their 2 top pitchers and two of the most dominant pitchers in the league. Hendry had weaknesses which I stated in my post, but far too many posters refuse to admit his strengths. Let's not forget the condition of the team and the minor league system when he took over. As I originally posted, Hendry's situation is completely different than what's going on now. Hopefully, Theo & Co. will get us a World Series Championship.

When Hendry took over, he had the best farm system in the game and some of the best young talent in the game (Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Patterson, etc.).

 

 

Theo started with Starlin Castro.

 

How about Samardzija, Barney, Soto, LaHair, Marshall (netted us prospects), Russell, Cashner (Rizzo), Colvin (Stewart), plus the prospects that netted us Garza. Of course Theo won't be counting on Brett Jackson, Vitters, Lake, Baez, McNutt, etc. Another example of a poster not being able to look past the "Hendry hate" (or "Theo adulation") to see the facts.

[KingCubsFan]

The discussion kind of went off on a tangent. My point was that for all of the bad things about Hendry, there were quite a few good things. There were many years where he had assembled the best team in the NL Central on paper, but "stuff happens" and they never got to the World Series. Some of that "stuff" certainly included way more than our share of injuries to key players during his tenure.

 

If your point is that Hendry would have been good if not for injuries, then you really aren't conceding any weaknesses on his part, and thus you shouldn't be listened to.

 

Every GM has injuries, every GM makes several good trades (in ten years! I think I saw FIVE trades listed. Give him a medal) and every GM makes good and bad signings. Hendry's strengths were less and his weaknesses greater than a "good" GM. (And this is not to mention his reactionary attitude toward sabermetrics.)

 

I only listed 5 trades to prove a point, but obviously he made many more. As for the injuries, the Cubs had more than their share including Wood and Prior. There aren't many teams that could absorb the loss of their 2 top pitchers and two of the most dominant pitchers in the league. Hendry had weaknesses which I stated in my post, but far too many posters refuse to admit his strengths. Let's not forget the condition of the team and the minor league system when he took over. As I originally posted, Hendry's situation is completely different than what's going on now. Hopefully, Theo & Co. will get us a World Series Championship.

When Hendry took over, he had the best farm system in the game and some of the best young talent in the game (Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Patterson, etc.).

 

 

Theo started with Starlin Castro.

 

How about Samardzija, Barney, Soto, LaHair, Marshall (netted us prospects), Russell, Cashner (Rizzo), Colvin (Stewart), plus the prospects that netted us Garza. Of course Theo won't be counting on Brett Jackson, Vitters, Lake, Baez, McNutt, etc. Another example of a poster not being able to look past the "Hendry hate" (or "Theo adulation") to see the facts.

The fact that you're naming guys like Darwin Barney, Bryan LaHair, and two lefty relievers shows the total lack of talent in this organization right now. Not to mention guys like LaHair and Samardzija have (or will have) derived almost all of their value from Theo's decisions (moving Samardzjia to the rotation and putting LaHair at 1B). I don't hate Hendry. I think he was a pretty good evaluator of talent in a vacuum (and a terrific scouting director). He just didn't know how to build a team. Maybe I misread your point about the condition of the team and minor league system when he took over. My point was that the organization in 2003 was in much, much better shape from a talent standpoint than it is now.

[SouthSideRyan]

With the talent Hendry left behind, there's no excuse for anything less than a World Series this season.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The Hendry era was the best of most, scatch that, every Cubs fans life time, although that's really not saying that much. It was also the time in most, scratch that again every Cub's fans lifetime that Cub's ownership gave the GM the go ahead to spend like a big market team. Hendry, in turn used the opportunity like a housewife who's huband landed a huge bonus, gave her the credit card and said go nuts.

 

Go nuts he did. Rather than bide his time, and wait for ways to spread the moey around he hopped on the most espensive items he could get his hands on. While each one filled a need, it wasn't necessarily the best option that would be available in the foreseeable future. In most cases, the problem wasn't the player he acquired, but rather the contract they were given. For example, I don't think that people would have complained if he signed Soriano for the 5/75-85 that the Angels and Phillies were reportedly offering him. This isn't to say that he didn't get some great values, such as DeRosa, Byrd, and Lilly. And then there were the cases of the nickel and dime guys like Miles and Grabow who could have easily been brought up through the farm system.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Similes and metaphors are not your strong suit.

[Sammy Sofa]

Similes and metaphors are not your strong suit.

 

*Slow clap*

[SouthSideRyan]

The Hendry era kind of reminds me of packing a suitcase at the last minute for a trip to Europe. You're running around the house trying to remember every last thing, and you sit there jumping up and down on it trying to get every last thing, and then bam your sunscreen spills all over the place. But there's no time to clean it up so you just zip it up with sunscreen all over your clothes so you run to the airport from the shuttle and you just barely make the gate before they shut it down and frantically search your pockets and you realize you made sure to pack all the unimportant things, but forgot your passport. The minor league system is the passport

[Sammy Sofa]

*Roaring applause*

[Little Slide Rooter]

Similes and metaphors are not your strong suit.

 

I think it's obvious that I don't have a strong suit, but I stand by my metaphors, and to a lesser extent, similies.

[Backtobanks]

[]The discussion kind of went off on a tangent. My point was that for all of the bad things about Hendry, there were quite a few good things. There were many years where he had assembled the best team in the NL Central on paper, but "stuff happens" and they never got to the World Series. Some of that "stuff" certainly included way more than our share of injuries to key players during his tenure.

 

 

 

 

 

How about Samardzija, Barney, Soto, LaHair, Marshall (netted us prospects), Russell, Cashner (Rizzo), Colvin (Stewart), plus the prospects that netted us Garza. Of course Theo won't be counting on Brett Jackson, Vitters, Lake, Baez, McNutt, etc. Another example of a poster not being able to look past the "Hendry hate" (or "Theo adulation") to see the facts.

 

The fact that you're naming guys like Darwin Barney, Bryan LaHair, and two lefty relievers shows the total lack of talent in this organization right now. Not to mention guys like LaHair and Samardzija have (or will have) derived almost all of their value from Theo's decisions (moving Samardzjia to the rotation and putting LaHair at 1B). I don't hate Hendry. I think he was a pretty good evaluator of talent in a vacuum (and a terrific scouting director). He just didn't know how to build a team. Maybe I misread your point about the condition of the team and minor league system when he took over. My point was that the organization in 2003 was in much, much better shape from a talent standpoint than it is now.

 

Samardzija was destined to be a starter when Hendry signed him. Darwin Barney is having an outstanding year. Bryan LaHair was bound to be given a shot at 1B because Baker and Mather aren't ML first basemen. Your comparison of the talent in 2003 and now again points to the difference in ownerships and their thoughts about contending. Hendry (an unknown as a GM) was given orders to buy the players necessary to build a winning team. Theo was given complete autonomy to rebuild by trading off players and rebuilding from scratch.

[davell]

You're not mentioning the reason Theo has been given the right to start over is he probably sat down with Tom and calmly explained that if you looked at every single bit of talent within the organization and compared it to other teams, it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball. This being the case and having more resources than probably about all of baseball, other than 5 teams or so, is why Jim Hendry was not a good GM. In fact, he's probably worse than I had even thought.

[TruffleShuffle]

The discussion kind of went off on a tangent. My point was that for all of the bad things about Hendry, there were quite a few good things. There were many years where he had assembled the best team in the NL Central on paper, but "stuff happens" and they never got to the World Series. Some of that "stuff" certainly included way more than our share of injuries to key players during his tenure.

 

If your point is that Hendry would have been good if not for injuries, then you really aren't conceding any weaknesses on his part, and thus you shouldn't be listened to.

 

Every GM has injuries, every GM makes several good trades (in ten years! I think I saw FIVE trades listed. Give him a medal) and every GM makes good and bad signings. Hendry's strengths were less and his weaknesses greater than a "good" GM. (And this is not to mention his reactionary attitude toward sabermetrics.)

 

I only listed 5 trades to prove a point, but obviously he made many more. As for the injuries, the Cubs had more than their share including Wood and Prior. There aren't many teams that could absorb the loss of their 2 top pitchers and two of the most dominant pitchers in the league. Hendry had weaknesses which I stated in my post, but far too many posters refuse to admit his strengths. Let's not forget the condition of the team and the minor league system when he took over. As I originally posted, Hendry's situation is completely different than what's going on now. Hopefully, Theo & Co. will get us a World Series Championship.

When Hendry took over, he had the best farm system in the game and some of the best young talent in the game (Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Patterson, etc.).

 

 

Theo started with Starlin Castro.

 

How about Samardzija, Barney, Soto, LaHair, Marshall (netted us prospects), Russell, Cashner (Rizzo), Colvin (Stewart), plus the prospects that netted us Garza. Of course Theo won't be counting on Brett Jackson, Vitters, Lake, Baez, McNutt, etc. Another example of a poster not being able to look past the "Hendry hate" (or "Theo adulation") to see the facts.

 

this has to be a joke.

[Andy]

The Hendry era kind of reminds me of packing a suitcase at the last minute for a trip to Europe. You're running around the house trying to remember every last thing, and you sit there jumping up and down on it trying to get every last thing, and then bam your sunscreen spills all over the place. But there's no time to clean it up so you just zip it up with sunscreen all over your clothes so you run to the airport from the shuttle and you just barely make the gate before they shut it down and frantically search your pockets and you realize you made sure to pack all the unimportant things, but forgot your passport. The minor league system is the passport

Nicely done

[Backtobanks]

You're not mentioning the reason Theo has been given the right to start over is he probably sat down with Tom and calmly explained that if you looked at every single bit of talent within the organization and compared it to other teams, it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball. This being the case and having more resources than probably about all of baseball, other than 5 teams or so, is why Jim Hendry was not a good GM. In fact, he's probably worse than I had even thought.

 

If the Cubs are in such bad shape, I guarantee Theo & Co. wouldn't have jumped at the chance to come here and fail. This is an organization that they viewed as one that could be turned around within a few years (not true of a bottom 5 team). Again it's interesting that this talent-less team has or had players like Marshall (getting multiple good prospects), Cashner (getting Rizzo), Garza (probably getting some team's 2+ top prospects), Dempster (probably getting 1 top prospect and 1 good prospect), Castro - untouchable superstar, Samardzija - untouchable young starter, etc.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, it doesn't take terrible systems years to be fixed. Ironclad logic there.

[davell]

B2b: I know you're not well versed in minor league systems, but if you looked up all the talent, up and down each of the 30 organizations at the turn of this baseball calendar year, the Cubs had less talent top to bottom than just about everyone. The Astros, Mets, and Twins were in worse shape for sure. May have been another team or two. Is that acceptable for a team with the Cubs resources? The reason Theo took this gig is because there's no excuse NOT to build a longterm contender here with the resources available. what he inherited was a true mess. If you actually think otherwise, you're not looking at things clearly.

[EhDubya]

The Cubs have great minor leaguers guys, in fact all Theo has to do is find that elusive 3rd team to get involved with more trades.

 

Tigers get: Soriano, Garza

Rangers get: McNutt, JJax, Vitters

Cubs get: Hamilton and Tigers top 7 prospects

[Guest]

With all of B2B's random Hendry defending in seemingly any thread possible, I had almost forgotten how his thing used to be all the great three team trades.

[UMFan83]

The Hendry era kind of reminds me of packing a suitcase at the last minute for a trip to Europe. You're running around the house trying to remember every last thing, and you sit there jumping up and down on it trying to get every last thing, and then bam your sunscreen spills all over the place. But there's no time to clean it up so you just zip it up with sunscreen all over your clothes so you run to the airport from the shuttle and you just barely make the gate before they shut it down and frantically search your pockets and you realize you made sure to pack all the unimportant things, but forgot your passport. The minor league system is the passport

 

17.27/10

[davell]

I want to do a bunch of 3 for 1 deals and wind up with 1 guy on our 40 man. [expletive] the rules.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The Hendry era kind of reminds me of packing a suitcase at the last minute for a trip to Europe. You're running around the house trying to remember every last thing, and you sit there jumping up and down on it trying to get every last thing, and then bam your sunscreen spills all over the place. But there's no time to clean it up so you just zip it up with sunscreen all over your clothes so you run to the airport from the shuttle and you just barely make the gate before they shut it down and , but forgot your passport. The minor league system is the passport

 

17.27/10

You're running around the house trying to remember every last thing

Left handed bats? Reliable starting pitchers? players that can catch the ball?

 

bam your sunscreen spills all over the place

Lou's ridiculous criteria

 

But there's no time to clean it up so you just zip it up with sunscreen all over your clothes

Lack of quality options forced him to sign the likes of Bradley, Miles, and Grabow

 

frantically search your pockets and you realize you made sure to pack all the unimportant things

Left handed hitters, check. Starting pitching, check. Players that can catch the ball, check.

 

but forgot your passport flushed your passport down the toilet. The minor league system is the passport

metaphors are fun.

[jersey cubs fan]

I guarantee Theo & Co. wouldn't have jumped at the chance to come here and fail. This is an organization that they viewed as one that could be turned around within a few years (not true of a bottom 5 team).

 

They aren't a bottom 5 organization, because they have the resources that most teams do not have, and more potential than just about every other team to dominate their division. But their assets are almost entirely in the upside potential for future dominance, and certainly not the talent level that was on the team the day they took the job.